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Ogner

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About Ogner

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  1. Do you really need to be getting personal here? Do you think in Mat 5:25 Jesus say to a victim of a crime: "Come to terms quickly with criminals while you are on the way to court, or criminals may hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison." ?? You understand that, don't you?
  2. Do yoy think Jesus in Mat 5:40 say "If criminals wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat as well"? It means, criminals can sue a victim of a crime. And if criminals want to take his shirt, he must hand over them coat as well. And a victim should be grateful them that they want to hurt Do you think Jesus could taught us something like this?
  3. Are you not trying to prove that I must love satan, his children and those who happy when can hurt me? And are you not trying to say that if criminals want to take my shirt, I must hand over them coat as well? If I'm a victim of a crime I can't go to court? And don't you think I should be grateful them that they want to hurt me? So, what are you trying to tell me?
  4. What it proved is this: that I must love satan or his children? Those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me. What do you mean? Should I be grateful them that they want to hurt me? You think this is what Peter was talking about?
  5. In Matthew 5:39 Jesus say about litigation. 1) It is a particularly arbitrary form of individual justice, whereby the men of a family, clan, group or village act as judge, jury and executioner. 2) If you are a victim of a crime you must go to court. 3) And if plaintiff wants to sue you and to take your tunic, give him your coat also. Requires tunic - plaintiff Give him coat must - defendant Therefore, Jesus says: Matthew 5:25,26. In Matthew 5:39,40 Jesus say about litigation. 39 " But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.” It is a particularly arbitrary form of individual justice, whereby the men of a family, clan, group or village act as judge, jury and executioner. If you are a victim of a crime you must go to court 40 "And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well." If plaintiff wants to sue defendant and to take his shirt, defendant must give him coat also. Jesus changes the commandment 38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth.".
  6. To be victim and edure is not to know God. Jesus never taught this. In Matthew 5:21,22 Jesus said: "who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.". "will be sent to fiery hell." this means put him to death. God, through the prophet Jeremiah and David stated: Jeremiah 22:3 "Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.". Jeremiah 22:26 "He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well. Is not this to know me? says the Lord.". Psalm 82:3,4 "Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.". And Matthew 7:1,2 Jesus say: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." If you choose not to judge righteous judgment others you will be judged with the same measure you use. Because we must John: 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment." More generally Jesus say, "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. If you do not judge others, your heavenly Father will not be judge between you and your abuser. When people take a neutral stand between you and your abuser, they are in effect abandoning you. If you do not judge others, and you will not be judged. And that's bad. " Jesus say, better justice, when it is done than......... to be wronged.
  7. If you look at the whole chapter Matthew 5 you'll see that's not about we must forgive and love criminals. In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not murder" In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the requirements on gift In Matthew 5:27,28 and 31,32 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not commit adultery.’ In Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus tightens the requirements on oath. Attention! Follow the logic. In this verses 38-41 Jesus tightens the principle ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." Now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt.". For example: Exodus 21:18,19, “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed. And Exodus 21:22,23, “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation proportional to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered. But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation disproportionate (in favour of a plaintiff) to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.
  8. The're taking the wrong side, because it is not.
  9. Do you think Jesus could taught us how to Selfless Love murderers? Mike, what are you getting at?
  10. You attention to situations in which Jesus and Stephen were killed by children of satan. What do you expect me to do about it now? Should I assume that's reason to love those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me? How do you feel when you see innocent people get killed? You feel that you love murderers? When innocent people get killed it's not reason to love their murderers. It's a question of who you have compassion for. Do you think that you must love murderers? Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love murderers? Jesus and Stephan did their utmost to prove otherwise
  11. Sorry, I saw this and stopped reading. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17 KJV
  12. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:18‭-‬19‭, ‬36 KJV But the wrath of God abideth on him. Not love, pity and forgiveness.
  13. Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love? Do you know whom Jesus is talking about? Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love and forgive criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains ? All right, how about this one? But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22 KJV
  14. They don't need your love, pity and your forgiveness. If you forgive them or not, nothing will change. You can love and forgive criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains. Please don't tell me this is what Jesus taught to do it. That's all I ask.
  15. Do you forgive any who does us wrong? What does that have to do with Jesus, law of Moses and Biblical teaching? Those are your words.
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