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Fran C

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  1. I think how you explain the differences in meaning of words is not so complicated and is understood by anyone that speaks a language well. My belief is that we COULD agree on what each "Christian or theological" word could mean. How did biblical scholars come to know except by studying the bible? This is the only way. It would be great to have the same language...immediate understanding. Trinity, for instance, has a very definite meaning, and yet there are those that will give it a totally different explanation - instead of just stating that they don't believe in it. They want to believe that it means what THEY think it means. Alas, YOU are doing exactly the same! There are set definitions for Body, Soul, Spirit, and yet you prefer to study the old and new testaments and come up with your own understanding! In the O.T. the heart was credited with having feelings. Do YOU think the heart has feelings? Or is it just a way to express an emotion? My heart bleeds for you. My heartfelt sympathies. etc. We feel with our mind...not with our heart. And our mind is part of the soul.
  2. Of course I agree with the above. Why would anyone believe the bible if they didn't think it was inspired by God. But inspired does not mean that God wrote the bible...men wrote it with the inspiration they had at the moment. I've been helped greatly to understand the O.T. Some ask how it could be that God said to kill every man woman and child...how He could be so mean. If we understand revelation and inspiration, we tend not to blame God for everything that happened in the O.T. and many questions are answered through this understanding. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1 Samuel 15:3 1Then Samuel said to Saul, “The LORD sent me to anoint you as king over His people, over Israel; now therefore, listen to the words of the LORD. 2“Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. 3‘Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” 4Then Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim, 200,000 foot soldiers and 10,000 men of Judah. 5Saul came to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the valley. 6Saul said to the Kenites, “Go, depart, go down from among the Amalekites, so that I do not destroy you with them; for you showed kindness to all the sons of Israel when they came up from Egypt.” So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites. 7So Saul defeated the Amalekites, from Havilah as you go to Shur, which is east of Egypt. 8He captured Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were not willing to destroy them utterly; but everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed. Samuel Rebukes Saul 10Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, 11“I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands.” And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the LORD all night. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, God commands to kill all... God is sorry He trusted Saul as King... Pretty odd for God to do either of the two So you've explained the O.T. and the N.T. very well,,,the N.T. being the ultimate revelation from God through His Son Jesus....but you neglected to answer my very important question: How is it that Jesus had to adjust/fix/repair, the incorrect teachings that were found in the Mosaic Law if they were correct?? But I do feel that we have already killed the dead horse, so we'll leave it at this.
  3. I agree with what @maryjayne has stated in the post just above this...however my understanding of the O.T. is the following, and I did not make this up of my own (something I do not do in general) but have learned it from a Christian Jewish writer: We sometimes lose sight of the fact that the O.T. was written about 4,000 years ago. The O.T. was inspired by God,,,not written by Him. God revealed Himself to the O.T. persons, starting, for sure, with Abraham -- which is the beginning of biblical history. From the time that God revealed Himself, everything that happened was attributed to Him. He was mentioned at all times and throughout their history. I sometimes believe it's easy to tell which commands were of God and which were of man. Can we believe all the 613 laws in the Torah were of God? You're intelligent enough to know them...do YOU think all the 613 laws were made by God? And if so, why did Jesus correct some of them? For instance He corrected the giving of a divorce certificate,,,the hating of enemies. If God had declared these two laws,,,then was God wrong and Jesus was correcting the Father??
  4. I understand your point H, and will not argue with you. My problem is that there is conflict in scripture regarding this, and by the looks of it, you haven't reconciled that conflict. I have asked you before HOW do you reconcile Genesis 22:12 with Hebrews 4:12-13 Isaiah 46:10 Romans 8:29 You say God does not know what a free agent will do until he does it... It does appear from many verses that God DOES know what a free agent will choose...this does NOT mean that God's knowledge will CAUSE that agent to choose..but only that God knows.
  5. Interesting that you should mention about how we should have the same language. Another member here also believes this is very important and dreams of having a Christian Dictionary! @JLB As to the rest, I fear this will be my last post because I can see that you understand the function of many using ONLY the biblical verses available, but this has been explained very well theologically by putting together all of the ideas of the O.T. and the N.T. and arriving at an explanation of the make-up of man. This is from a book that was used for study regarding the above. The highlighted is directly from the book: Understanding the Trichotomy (or dichotomy) of man helps us to understand our human nature and what it means to be saturated with the Word of God. 1. God's written or spoken Word may be taken in through your soul functions: i.e., mind, will and emotions -- by hearing, reading, studying or memorizing. [the Word of God affects our mind, our emotions and our will, which make up the soul] 2. The ultimate purpose is to feed your spirit which was created in God's own image and longs to have that image of God fulfilled. However, at this point, there are two interesting factors to consider: A. Even if the Word of God, written or spoken, is rejected, it still has an effect on the soul and spirit. Hebrews 4:12 B. When the Word of God, written or spoken, is accepted, it not only affects the spirit, but also helps to bring the soul function into meaning and balance. God's Word not only enters from the external into the internal, but also Christ Himself, the Incarnate Living Word, living in the heart of every born-again Christian, finds expression and fulfillment as He lives His life through the spirit, the soul, and the body of every believer. [as we can see, the Spirit of the person affects the soul, which is comprised of mind, emotions, will.] source: Dynamics of Discipling Arts Publications.
  6. Agreed 100%...in your last post, to which I was replying, you seemed to say that God did not know the destiny of man. I believe He does, but that we have the free will to choose God or not.... I also not that the O.P. of this thread has disappeared. Will see you around in other threads I hope.
  7. JA, could you give me the exact verse please? I usually use the NASB, but have different translations. I also like to check the YLT when there's a question and also the Greek Lexicon, although I don't care to make a habit of this...very rarely is it important enough... Thanks.
  8. Hazard, If God does not know the destiny of every man and every physical thing in the universe He made....wouldn't He be a very weak God? And how would you explain Romans 8:29 ? It states that God FOREKNEW who would accept Him and be predestined to be in the conformity of Jesus. Is there a conflict in scripture?
  9. Huh? I'm pretty new here. I never heard of reading from specific bible translations in order to participate in a discussion. All who read have their own versions...I have many..they all say the same except for a few words which make no difference. Not wishing to derail... Sorry,.
  10. You must have seen the image elsewhere. I'll try to post it again. I agree with all you've said; good on justification and sanctification. To be honest, it's rather frustrating at times when Christians don't understand, or believe, this simple difference between the two concepts, or get them mixed up or think they're the same. Also, yes, in the O.T. we could understand soul/spirit to be our inner "breath"...but don't you believe in progressive revelation? This breath idea does not work as well in the N.T. Here I see GOD as having this quality. God Father is A spirit. God Son is the Word of God and God Spirit is the "breath" of God. Hope you could see the image. It shows: BODY This is our physical self...anything pertaining to the body we have. SOUL Our soul is what makes each one of us be unique and be "us". It is comprised of our mind, will and emotions. It is not tangible. SPIRIT This is the part of us that connects to God...it is our "God part". Also, I won't pursue this forever....I don't like discussing stuff ad infinitum...but would like your understanding re the image. (I understand how you feel about soul and spirit)
  11. I also believe that Scripture is our only authority...and that it holds the truth. I also do not believe in soul sleep. I used to believe that we went in the ground (sheoul) where we awaited the resurrection of our body and soul. But what about our Spirit? What happens to our Spirit? I will say that it does take some serious study to know exactly what the bible teaches since there are some subjects that are complex and cannot be easily understood. One example from the O.T. is the idea of the soul and the spirit. It was spoken of in different way...The soul and spirit were spoken of interchangeably and the spirit was even used to mean the spirit of God. In the N.T. justification and sanctification are sometimes spoken of interchangeably and this causes some confusion. So... Following is an image of how I understand man to be made, or composed of....Body, Soul, Spirit. This is the trichotomy of man. Some believe we are Body, Soul/Spirit combined..this is the dichotomy model. You probably do not accept this, but its roots are biblical...the body, soul and spirit are spoken of in the N.T. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. As to soul annihilation....I do believe we go to be immediately where we belong at death...but that would be another thread.
  12. Hi R, You and @Hazard are having too much fun and I hate to break in. But I do agree with Hazard. Here would be two questions for you, which I probably missed since I just got here. 1. What is the soul? 2. Do you believe in soul sleep? I admire your knowledge of Greek and wonder why, if you use outside sources (from the bible), why you're so intent on using ONLY the bible to explain the dichotomy or trichotomy of man. Just curious,,,you'll find that I don't debate indefinitely.
  13. Hi Willa,,, this is right on target... The following image demonstrates what you've stated. Our spirit does indeed have an effect on our soul and even our body.
  14. Right. I always found this interesting.... Most scientists are atheists and do not believe in God, and yet the bible stated how the universe began, as you've stated. Some scientists are now using the term "Intelligent Design" to express that it's apparent that something beyond what we could understand had to have a hand in creating everything. We know this something as God.
  15. I don't believe science has any evidence as to how the first cells came to existence. When I listen to Dr. Tour, it seems impossible. Did you hear that there was some bacteria "created" in a lab about a week ago? The language was such that I didn't understand it really well, but, of course, they made it somehow out of existing material. From what I could understand, they just changed something about the DNA. I wouldn't call that creation.
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