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Pie

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About Pie

  • Birthday 09/24/1987

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  1. Thank you very much for these links that go deeper into the topic! Very interesting that Satan, himself, used this Psalm on Jesus. That quote by Charles Spurgeon at the end is beautiful. I think that perspective makes perfect sense because that seems to line up perfectly with what Paul and Jesus say about death and I think that can be applied to suffering as well. Philippians 1:21-23 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better." John 11:25-26 "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
  2. Yeah, they realize people die eventually. And they even realize someone can murder a Christian. But they take the psalm to literally mean no plague or pestilence will affect them based on "For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence... You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the destruction that wastes at noonday.... no evil shall be allowed to befall you, no plague come near your tent. " I mean I can see how someone could read it that way. However, I realize it doesn't mean God is going to spare us from everything all the time. But then it ends with "With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation." So here, it does seem to be referring to the actual physical life being long. I know it's hard to interpret the psalms sometimes though, because they share theological truths or worship and praise, often in a symbolic/metaphorical manner simply because of the nature of the psalms being poetry. This is definitely true. And I do see it used in this manner. Thanks for pointing this out because that does show that imagery is being used here. It's not someone who literally abides in the literal secret place or shadow of God. Because we know God doesn't have a literal shadow.
  3. I was having a discussion recently with another Christian about what's happening in Syria and the Sarin gas attacks. They said that if anyone stood on God's word and used Psalm 91 that no harm would come to them. While I believe that God is obviously capable of miraculously protecting someone, does this psalm imply that He ALWAYS will spare us? This Christian is very adamant that this is exactly what it means. I feel like it's being misused here, because obviously Christians are dying everyday everywhere. They also believe God will ALWAYS spare Christians from plague or famine. All they have to do is "claim" this promise in Psalm 91. I read the Psalm and I'm not sure how to explain why I don't think that's accurate. It's clear God does miraculously intervene at times but not all the time. So I mean... it can't mean that. Right? Does anyone have any insight into this Psalm that might help me understand?
  4. Thank you! That website describes almost exactly what he preaches. Nearly verbatim in some parts. Very enlightening. You're right. Being angry doesn't accomplish anything and doesn't produce good fruit. And that is why I know my own bitterness just hinders my own relationship with God. And I need to seek forgiveness for harboring it. Most of my family has already limited their contact with him. But since he is married to someone in our family whom we all adore (she has a heart of gold but is extremely naive and impressionable), cutting him out completely just isn't an option (or we all would have by now). We get concerned about her especially when she gets sick. She has to hide the fact she's going to specialists from him. Which is ridiculous. He nearly died until one of my family members (whom he judged and spoke against) actually offered to pay for his surgery and did pay for it. The surgeon said had he waited even a couple of more days, he would have died. Yet, he still condemns her for seeing doctors because it makes him look bad as a "healing evangelist." So we have to be involved.
  5. Interesting perspective. Do you mean we should never ever should speak out against anyone? I realize all Christians falter at times but if they are leaders and consistently, for years, following greed and pride, it seems to me, its more loving to correct them. At the same time, if I'm just venting about him and it's not accomplishing anything, then I may be the one in the wrong. So perhaps my mother is right in that regard. I guess I'm mostly thinking of James where it talks about controlling the tongue. James 3: 1-12 "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water." It seems like this scripture could pertain to both me and him. I know I need to get a handle on my temper when it comes to him. Like Patriot mentioned, if it's to correct, then it's a different situation. What does WOF stand for? I googled it and found Word of Faith? Is that right? He definitely believes you need to have enough faith to get healed. He would probably classify himself as Charismatic.
  6. Hello, I wanted to know about scriptures pertaining to this. I know there are plenty speaking against false teachers and prophets. My problem is there is a certain “healing evangelist” who married into my family. He has caused quite a bit of division in the family. He is one of the most narcissistic people I have ever known. He doesn’t even try to hide it. And he only ever talks about churches in terms of money. “This one gets about $500 a week. This one is $1,000 a week.” (That’s not an exaggeration. ) He is very judgmental of some of my family which is why the division has happened. I could go on and on. The members of my family who are struggling and somewhat skeptical of Christianity, become even more skeptical because of people like him, which is frustrating. But what bothers me most is he has nearly died refusing to go to the doctor due to the fact it shows “lack of faith” and he’s the healing evangelist after all. He’s married to a very close family member, who I adore and who is older and tries to convince her not to go to the doctor when she is sick. He makes her feel guilty like she isn’t trusting God, and this obviously makes me incredibly angry because now he could potentially hurt her. This has happened a few times recently, others have been able to convince her to go to the doctor anyways. However, anytime I speak out against him, my mother says to be careful because the Bible says you should not speak against a man of God. My argument is that he isn’t a man of God. Her reasoning is that he isn’t aware of the way he is. Which after thoughtful consideration, I don’t think he does realize what he is doing is wrong. But would anyone full of pride who turned church into a money-making business see it as wrong? Wouldn’t they all justify it in their hearts somehow? I seriously doubt they go to church everyday saying, “I know this is wrong and I don’t care.” So, is that an excuse for their behavior? And is it a serious offense to “speak against them?” I know I have some bitterness towards him that I need to deal with but it’s because I don’t want him to hurt anyone. And I can't just let it go. I would try talking to him but he won't listen to anyone. If a pastor even tries to disagree with him, he refuses to go back to that church. The guy is not open to feedback at all. Edit: Maybe I should have posted this under, "Have a problem? Looking for Advice?"
  7. Prizes to join Worthy forums? Or are you just talking about in general, these are things you have seen? There's obviously a line. At the same time, Jesus and his disciples went out to the sinners. He was scoffed at by the Pharisees because he ate with tax collectors and others who were hated by many at the time for being so corrupt. He certainly didn't avoid them and only hang out in the synagogues. I think some churches only minister to Christians and worry about getting their hands dirty by going out among unbelievers. (Obviously, there's a line. You don't go into strip clubs to minister to unbelievers.) But Jesus didn't entice people with gifts or entertainment either. Jesus and the disciples simply shared the truth with these people. I personally don't think enticing people with gifts and prizes is the right approach. Could it save some? Perhaps. God can use even wrong actions to bring about something good. It doesn't mean we should. I think it's spreading the idea that Christianity is nothing more than a sales pitch. I think it also detracts from the genuineness of the message of the gospel. But that's just my two cents.
  8. Your sample size is really small. It's easy to make generalizations based on our own experiences. I think this is going to vary greatly depending on the church you go to, your location, etc. My first degree is a B.S. in Biology. I've met Christians in the workplace with science and engineering degrees. However, at the company I was at, we were the minority. I went to one church where the pastor was also a theology professor at a university. That church had a lot more students involved. That same pastor also mentioned in his sermon how the churches today have not made scientists feel very welcome with some of our attitudes towards it. I can only speculate why some Christians may not choose the sciences. My best guess is what that pastor mentioned... that some churches are very hostile to science. I still experience this from time to time. Just as a scientist would not be accepted by their peers for rejecting evolution or accepting a Young Earth View. Christians are often not accepted by their peers for rejecting Young Earth Creationism and accepting theistic evolution or Old Earth Creationism. When I'm at church, I keep the fact I believe the universe is billions of years old to myself. I don't know where I stand on evolution. Still, things like Mechanical Engineering do not stress very heavily on topics like evolution, more on physics, so Christians put off by that could easily go into those fields. It's really hard to judge why a person chooses the path they choose. There are so many factors at play. Even if you look up statistics, finding reliable ones can be difficult. Remember correlation does not prove causation. Regardless, while higher education is not necessary, it would be nice to get more Christians involved in these fields. Why? Because theses people Engineers/Lawyers/Doctors/Scientists have a lot of influence over our society. (So do Philosophers btw). And if we take Christians out of the equation because we are taught to fear these things, then our culture is at risk of becoming even more and more secular. As that happens, it gets harder and harder to spread the gospel. We need Christians in these fields too.
  9. So true. Much of my family is still part of the name it and claim it group. Although, not to the extent they were before. But it's definitely still lingering there. It's incredibly detrimental. It severed my relationship with God as a child. I went from reading the Bible and praying everyday as a young teen to being pretty angry at God for years because of this false doctrine. It was applied to miraculous healing as well. And everytime someone died, I was told they didn't have enough faith. So when those I deeply cared for, first a teacher... died of cancer. Then later my pastor - liver failure. Then a few years later, his wife - breast cancer (They were not prosperity preachers). I kept praying and kept watching people die. Everytime being told it was their own fault. I began to deeply distrust God. It felt like he was punishing them and rewarding others by healing them. Like the ones who got healed..earned it. I was young and naive. I just wish I hadn't been told that God always does what we ask if we have enough faith. That's having faith in our own will...not God's. Aw well. I know the truth now.
  10. I was raised as a teenager in a church with immense spirituality. Tongues, visions, schools to teach you how to prophesy. I was taken to many events with so called 'miracle weight loss', 'miracle hair regrowth' and a bunch of other crazy miracles. People shaking rainsticks and speaking in tongues. There was so much emotional hysteria all in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I got more and more confused about my faith as time went on. I also saw such blatant hypocrisy, I truly believe this environment did play a significant role in my brother and I leaving the faith for years when we became young adults. So for those who are extremely upset by the idea of tongues being called demonic, I can assure you, the reason some do is because there is a lot out there that is highly questionable. However, I don't believe ALL of it is. I do know some very devout Christians, one a missionary, who I have immense respect for because of their humility and commitment to Christ who do occasionally speak in tongues while praying for others. I don't really know how I could attribute it to the demonic simply because I'm skeptical. I've seen the most definite "fake" version or "demonic" version and it does not seem the same as what they do. They aren't doing it to gather attention to themselves or try to show off how spiritual they are. They equate tongues with praying in the Spirit. I've heard some verses in defense of it such as: Jude 1:19-20 "It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit" Romans 8:26 " In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words " Thoughts? I'm not entirely convinced that praying in the Spirit means speaking in tongues. And I'm not entirely certain how they know they mean the same thing. It's just hard to see how these people could be engaging in something demonic like others have suggested when I know them pretty well and see their dedication to Christ. Some truly putting their lives at risk to spread the gospel in other countries.
  11. Was he/she at a bar or was it like a picture of them with a small glass of wine with his/her dinner? I suppose it's a matter of opinion and so pretty subjective. However, context makes a difference.
  12. Mohammed? I don't think even Muslims pray to Mohammed? He's a prophet correct? Not considered Allah? Also, the God of Abraham is considered by Christian doctrine to be God. I believe because I believe Christianity is true and also due to personal experience. I understand that it can be difficult at times to believe in what you can't touch and feel and see. As others have pointed out, there are many such things we cannot see, that we regard as real things. However, we are talking about God. And you already consider yourself a theist. You want to know why we believe in Christian theism? The beauty of Christianity is that it gives us not only historical context but it bases its entire claim on one event, the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Even Paul says, if Christ did not rise, then our faith is in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:14 " And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain." So I'm assuming you're having trouble with believing Christ did rise from the dead and is who he says he is. It's a bold claim isn't it? The apostles weren't claiming he rose spiritually from the dead. They claimed he physically rose from the dead! The tomb was empty. They gave up everything and they were willing to die terrible deaths because they believed so fervently that Jesus truly had risen from the dead. Why? Because he appeared to them and 500 some others. Some critics have tried to come up with alternative theories. None of them explain Paul's conversion, James the brother of Jesus' conversion, the empty tomb, and the apostles belief that Jesus had truly risen and were willing to die for it. None of them explain all of the facts. The best explanation for all the evidence is that he did rise from the dead. If you're interested in this topic, then there's many resources available that go over the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. An example would be "The Case for the Ressurection of Jesus" by Gary Habermas. In this book, Habermas and Licona use a minimal facts approach. This means they use only the facts that both Christian scholars and skeptics agree on. There's many more resources and there's even debates on youtube on the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and lectures you can access for free. But is that why you are struggling to believe? I only ask because there was a time when I discovered all the evidence and still found it hard to accept. When I prayed, it truly felt silly and pointless. In fact, it felt that way for years. I was very conflicted. My mind had started to accept it was the truth but my heart just wasn't there yet. So if there's an emotional barrier there, that's an entirely different subject. My advice if that is the case is this, keep seeking God. Keep praying even though it feels strange and pointless. Keep asking him to open your heart and help your heart and mind to believe. Don't be afraid to tell him you're full of doubt and you need his help. He hears you. You may not notice anything immediately. But know that He is listening even when it feels like He isn't. I mean you're here and you're asking for a reason. He sees you. =)
  13. I enjoyed C.S. Lewis's chapter on morality in Mere Christianity. I think he really digs into the issue. To try to help you understand the idea around objective morality, Christian philosophers use two terms. Moral ontology and moral epistemology. It's actually really helpful to understand the difference because so many get them confused. Moral ontology refers to the idea that an objective morality does exist. Moral epistemology deals with how people come to know morals, vices and virtues. The fact that people differ on their opinions of what is and isn't a moral duty has to do with moral epistemology. Moral ontology is unaffected by such questions because they have no bearing on whether an objective morality actually exists. If objective morality exists, it means even if every single human being on earth believed that killing innocents was right, they would still be wrong. So in that sense, yes it can surpass your own understanding. However, being Christians we do have a pretty good option here. We can ask the very source of objective morality for guidance, that being God. Not to mention, we have Jesus' own words in the Bible to guide us. Furthermore, all humankind has some access to it as others have mentioned, God wrote it on man's hearts. That's why I believe we all have a sense of morality. Why we all feel at times we've been treated unfairly, or fairly. Why we see things as vices and virtues. Why we praise "good" actions and condemn "bad" ones. Why most of us agree that raping children is wrong. We are moral agents because God made us in his image capable of discerning such a thing. Also, I don't think many believe in absolute morality. There's a difference between objective and absolute morality. I saw that mentioned somewhere. Absolutes would mean things like lying is wrong in all situations at all times. However, if a murderer broke into your home and asked where your family was, I think it's clear it'd be morally wrong to be honest and tell them where they were so they could go torture and murder them. Most atheists I've talked with believe in an objective morality when actually pressed on the issue, they just have no idea how to explain it. There's many things wrong with the answer "human flourishing."(Which is the answer I've gotten most often). I've met very few moral nihilists. And even they have a difficult time with it because it conflicts with their emotions and experiences.
  14. Welcome to Worthy Joe! I'm going to have to go with what Omegaman said in regards to how extensive this topic is. I was agnostic for a long while and it took years of studying in my spare time, listening to debates, arguments for the existence of God, objections, responses, etc to even come to the conclusion, "Yes, I think the existence of God might actually be more plausible than his nonexistence." Then it took awhile longer for me to come back to Christian theism and finally give my life to Christ. And of course, it requires an open heart and mind which it sounds like you already have or you wouldn't be here asking. I'm not saying it will take you years to dismantle all this information. I'm just saying, it's not something one person in one conversation can convey. reasons.org like Omegaman mentioned is really good. So is reasonablefaith.org. You'll find a lot of resources there. Dr. Craig definitely played a significant role in convincing that there was good reason to believe that God exists.
  15. I believe God had morally sufficient reasons for permitting all the evil we see in the world. It's not easy to say that in the face of so much suffering because we can't see the whole picture. I do not believe the devil can steal someone's life without God's permission. Now... die before their time? Well, perhaps they did... due to choices that were made. I'm thinking of drunk drivers or someone who commits suicide. I think there's a difference between God knowing something is going to happen and permitting it and God willing it to happen. I think he permits it. I don't know if I'd say he actually willed it. Which when someone says "It was their time to go." It almost sounds like God willed it. Like "Yes, they were supposed to kill themselves on that day. It's part of God's plan" As in, was God a direct causal agent of this happening? I guess this kind of goes back to the question, "Did God create evil and suffering?" or does he just permit it to exist since it is essentially the result of humans rejecting him (free will). Just as darkness is the absence of light. It's definitely intertwined within free will like others have mentioned. I think God, being omniscient, can see all the various paths we could take and what each action would lead to. However, due to free will, He lets us ultimately decide what path will be chosen. He doesn't infringe on it and stop us every time we are about to make a bad decision. However, God is aware of what decisions we will make and he permits it, so in that sense, I suppose you could say it was their time. It's a difficult question. I'm not sure I've sorted out all my own thoughts on it yet.
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