Kevinb

Thanks for responses and apologies for my late reply. I hear what you're saying...is this fully addressing all of it though. Doesn't it mention more specific about buying slaves...passing them onto your children. You can beat them as long as they don't die within a couple of days..this doesn't seem something that someone would volunteer into and sounds quite like more modern slavery. Also women can be stoned if they don't scream loud enough while being raped. On your wedding night if she's not a virgin take her to her father's house and stone her to death. Stone your kids to death in deuteromony. Breaking the sabbath..homosexuality.. worshipping other gods..blasphemy and more seem have been punished by stoning to death. I'm sure that the world was very different then i've only been aware of this last month or so...I was shocked. I'd be interested too on responses to the following if I could pose.... So Muslims or those of any other religion or no religion ...or tribes in say Africa who know nothing of Christianity and jesus. These people would all go to hell for eternity even if they've lead caring and morale lives through no fault of their own. And a mass murderer could be "saved" at the end of his life if he accepts God and jesus and go to heaven? Thanks for your replies in advance. I've never had anyone to ask this to.

Well I guess I had some vague belief before. I'm interested in views and responses. It's not bugging me in anyway. This part of the site is about asking questions plus I think it's a good thing to understand views people have as we all live on this planet together? You could be my neighbour ..my politician...my friend and vice versa right? Plus I'll always change my mind in the face of evidence as indeed would the overwhelming scientific community. I'll be interested to read the links over the weekend that someone posted for me.

Well absolutely evolution could be falsified...or at least given a major problem..a rabbit fossil in the triassic would do it? That would be one instance but nothing has yet been found out of evolutionary "sync" as it were. I'd have to disagree with evolution being faith based..even judges in courts with intelligent design vs evolution regarding what's taught in schools when presented with evidence from both sides have directly said evolution isn't a religion where as ID is.

Thanks...I'll take a look over the weekend.

Bk1110 you asked my background. I live in the UK...I've learnt how very different our countries are in terms of religiosity. Census polls say most don't believe in any God now here. First I've got to say..creation science isn't a credible term...there's just science. Even stated by judges in US courts when the teaching of creation science or intelligent design gets thrown out of science classrooms. So called creation science isn't demonstrable..it isn't falsifiable..it isn't peer reviewed etc etc ..this is how all other sciences get into the classroom. Creation science or intelligent design is religion trying to get into science classes. I think religion in schools is important ...in the UK there are a few week blocks a year for religious studies whereby you're taught what the most common religions in the world are and what they teach. On mainstream TV here..the BBC we see regular science documentaries. Last night for instance I watched a program on star formation and life cycle and ultimate demise including our sun...included was how we know this even mathematically and the progression to get us to that point..and how things like neutron stars were predicted by science before we even discovered them. I believe in evolution because it's yet to be falsified...there dozens of scientific disciplines that have added weight to it and our understanding. Darwin knew nothing of nucleotides and dna and this area alone is enough to demonstrate common ancestry. We've even mapped the neandathal genome and can demonstrate an interbreeding with homosapeins tens of thousands of years ago. Even to the point of being able to attribute some modern diseases to our 2% ish neandathal dna. Modern medicine is increasingly built upon our knowledge of dna and we will be further able to treat illness based upon the individuals dna. We now know we've vestigial ancestral dna more broadly. This is briefly dna alone..not even approached the fossil record..aging..distribution... embryology to name a few more all add weight but they didn't have to. How about vestigial remnants like whales have a pelvis and leg remnants buried in their bodies from ancestral land mammals..snakes also. We have fossils records of mammalian land living noses gradually moving to the top of the head to form a blow hole. Ever wondered why the mammalian spine such as whales and dolphines moves up and down water rather than side to side like a fish. This is how mammals on land move of course. Creationists sometimes say how well things are designed but thats such a superficial view as so much is poorly "designed"the human eye with an optic nerve smack in the middle of the retina giving us a blind spot rather than out the back of the eye. Teeth don't adequately fit in our jaw...the recurrent laryngeal nerve from our heads terminating in our throats but goes into our chest as it's been looped around the vein of the heart. In fish ancestral and current not too much a problem but in giraffes that's a journey of 15 feet. Anyway 100s of examples of poor design. Evolution can explain demonstrably why but you get the idea. For me this is overwhelming. The little God belief in had here I lost not least because I saw how people have decided what's true ie God did it.. already before asking the question or looking at the evidence. Evidence must form beliefs rather than beliefs form the evidence surely. I'm sure or I hope everyone does it in every other aspect of life and decision making. The money coming from? Isn't this why churches actively recruit in the usa? Doesn't happen here to the same degree. Your statement also implies some intent or conspiracy? Again I'd quote evidence forming beliefs rather than beliefs forming evidence. Science has no anti God agenda... it's just devising and testing methodologies based on evidence of the natural world. I realised for me a while ago ..how can I quote Christ..how can I say that's true...because where and when I was raised? Another country or place I could easily be coming from another religious perception right? Anyways all fascinating stuff. Anything I post isn't intending to be offensive to people personally...I see it as discussing politics or anything else. Already been told I'll burn in hell..doesn't affect me as I don't believe in one. I turned that around and said how worried are you about not going to an Islamic hell or Hindu hell. To sum up...I've not said there is no God..whichever God people have picked in human history I just see no evidence ..until that changes..by default I can't yet accept the claim

I agree...but what does that mean really? How does that get you to what's really true?

Thanks for your post. I've no one to talk to really about things like this. I certainly believe evolution by natural selection...old earth too...I guess initially not sure on a god involvement in some initiation of the universe but don't think I've even got that now. I don't particularly feel concerned by that although now thinking probably there's nothing after death isn't a huge comfort but I guess my comfort or not has nothing to do with what's true and I don't need to worry about hell. I don't know the bible hugely well..kinda patchy. For me believing in evolution means no Adam and Eve of course...that would have to be a miracle but then how do 2 people give rise to a population without incest and genetic problems. It's all boiling down to...based on scientific methodologies and evidence which I think is the best way to find the truth. What does it mean for a religious belief that the earth is 4.5 billion years old..humans are recent by evolutionary terms or creation? The sun is halfway through its life? 99% of all species that have ever been are extinct? It's hard to see a plan here...or is there not meant to be one as such?

Many thanks on the videos...I'll not have time to watch but maybe you could detail a bit of on here? Don't get me wrong..I don't say no God...for me now...I've come to what's most likely based on evidence. I don't see God claims whatever God that might be has met a burden of proof.

Daniel... on the making up multiple universes to try and disprove God seems bizarre to me. Science doesn't factor in God at all...science just tries to explain the natural world and the universe..creating theories and finding evidence or disproving is how progress is made. Maybe the multiple universe theory will get thrown out ultimately and for good but that will be on evidence...until then science just says...don't know..here's an idea..here's another...now let's go see what further evidence we can find to falsify or add weight to it. You could say the same about we now know we're not at the centre of the universe...the earth isn't flat..the earth goes round the sun. The lights in the night sky are other planets..stars and galaxies and so on..something surely now sensibly we can agree on at least where as once the church didn't?

Well...young earth...Adam and Eve.. stuff in Genesis like moon producing light...day and night before the sun. Weve virgin birth..resurrection. these are all claims on science that aren't substantiated. That's christiantity...but all religions throughout our history of the gods we've had are the same of course. I guess I had some belief that I've a hard time hanging on to in the face of scientific understanding that would oppose as examples above

Thanks all. I am coming to feel there is nothing outside of the natural world..even in the last few weeks. I've been more able than most to think without bias...I've not had any levels of being pushed into churches..only been a few times and just been left to find my own way. It makes me think..why Christianity...why not islam..why not Greek God's or any other. This surely boils down to where and when you happen to be born. I've seen the knots here people get themselves into trying to explain or twist or just deny the scientific in favour of following what the bible says..creation..Adam and Eve etc etc. It feels like ...I'll assert God now go looking at the science to fit with that...even to incredible lengths of conspiracy of science to try and disprove God. Surely the best approach is to look at the evidence to form beliefs rather than the other way round? When we have good demonstrably scientific theories..that can be tested for the size..age of the universe....earth..formation of stars..death of stars..99% of species that have ever lived extinct. It's hard to see a creator plan here or involvement. Especially when the alternative is to just assert the bible..quran or explanations in any other religion. How do I possibly refute evidence then somehow pick the right religion...based on what?

Okay...I thought you were stating a physical barrier around the earth that we couldn't cross and so couldn't send vehicles to moon...Mars..and beyond. So on the hiding god comment why would not only nasa but uk...European and other space agencies do this in this global conspiracy?

Also please falsify and explain images and involvement from sources other than nasa including Russia and the European space agency. So in your view these other sources are in league with nasa in putting forward all this misinformation. Please explain why they would and to what end?

If these pictures are fake you could easily prove this as you know where the pictures are supposedly taken on earth then go and stand where the shots were taken and repost without photoshopping. The earth and its atmosphere and it's gravity could qualify as one system. Space is not a total vacuum also. Solar particles winds radiation. Asteroids...why don't Asteroids hit the physical barrier? Please define and demonstrate this physical barrier? So you also would think sputnik..moon landings...all pictures of Asteroids where we have flown vessels into Asteroids..landed on Asteroids. All pictures of planets and their moons. Landings on Venus..all of voyager pictures..signals still received are fake. Please falsify all imagines and signals using any any credible method of your choosing but specify it. I'm excluding images from earth and hubble obviously. 200 miles is the distance of the space station with a speed of 17000 miles an hour granted. Please explain and quantify reasons why nasa would be complicit in some bizarre misinformation conspiracy.

Great pictures.. I'm pretty sure squirrel weasel things don't live on mars lol. There may have been life on mars or we will find some in the future..very very simple life at best I'd wager Pareidolia at work here I suspect. Anyone remember the face on mars from years back? I know I've double taked on animal shapes or faces in branches and bark etc before. Also I'm confused on the carbon dating rocks comment.. you can't date rocks this way. Carbon dating requires organic material...carbon containing and is only good for 40 k ish years figures based on earth sun exposure and atmosphere.

North korea aren't necessarily the issue... I think it could be how Russia and China deal with any US action..the US Russia relationship in Syria doesn't look great since bombing the airport.

Oh they'd hit the aircraft carrier no doubt as it sails closer in...still in international waters. Well they could attempt to hit it..I'm sure there's a reasonable chance it would get shot down. They've been testing longer range missiles and have demonstrated they're no where close to hitting US soil. These longer range tests are about extending range of course. I'd wager there would be some covert submarine cat and mouse too..that side of things is rarely mentioned and the koreans have subs. I live in the UK and we've been told we have roaming subs that are strategically placed to launch counterstrikes anywhere in the world...nuclear counterstrikes if need be. I'm sure the usa have 20 times our military ability.

America would have to retaliate. Or be seen to be attacked and do nothing. North Korea seems to want a war and is happy here to launch the 1st strike on a US ship in international waters. I'm sure they'd have no trouble launching a nuke at US soil if they had one with that range. So what should we do..wait for this to happen..I don't know. Also who would the Russians and Chinese side with...historically in the 50s it wasn't the US and allies. All very worrying

Hello Gary. Thank you so much for posting here. Can I add I'm sorry for your loss. I guess I'm coming from a position of not having to refute so much evidence. I don't think you need to do this to believe in God. I posted an evolutionary answer on another thread..can you track it? Apologies I'm so new here still getting to grips with how the site works. I think science only endeavours to find answers..there is no agenda to I feel to hold to any answer. It will only add weight to an understanding or disprove it. If it finds peer reviewed evidence of an alternative substantiated it will simply adjust or add to an understanding and this will be the new science. This is the process that's led to so much progress in the last few hundred years. For me it doesn't help the argument to source unsubstantiated alternatives from a more literal understanding for example Adam and Eve rather than evolution. As stated one doesn't have to look for ways to refute bodies of evidence from those where views have already been asserted then to attempt to dispose of this overwhelming evidence. Scientific understanding works the opposite way. People are able to incorporate a scientific knowledge and believe in God still...no less than evolution now accepted by the Vatican..arch bishop's and so many church leaders and theologians.

Popple I'd just ask you to think carefully and discuss fully with your partner. Clearly you can't force her against her will. You can put your case but all said and done ultimately it boils down to her decision. If she decides to keep the baby you need to work out your part in that and your child's future. I wish you well ..good luck for the future

Agreed..the court would side with the mother. He was in a place where he's not ready to start a family...she knew this..I think honesty from the start from both sides can eliminate many problems. Even if he didn't want to be a dad it's a huge decision to have an abortion. I have just urged him to try and imagine if he can live with the implications afterwards rather than just an initial reaction. Head of the family..please define what you mean? I'm very new here..I'm not well read in terms of the bible although I was brought up Christian. My upbringing wasn't really talked about massively when I was a kid in terms of living as a Christian. We had bible readings at school and went to church a few times a year via school rather than parents or friends. I'm starting to think about things more fully now. I'm enjoying reading posts here and thank you all for your patience

It's a complicated point. One of my friends partners became pregnant by stopping using the pill. She didn't tell him she had now she's pregnant. He wants an abortion but she doesn't. In essence she's enforced being a father on him it could be argued?

Thank you so much for replying. I don't fully understand all the ins and outs of the site yet...just been skimming through a few menus and posts as I've had a busy few days. I live in the UK was brought up in a relaxed kinda way as a Christian...if that makes sense? I guess life ticks on by with the day to day but I've recently been thinking about everything again after people knocking the door talking about God and religion. I didn't quite get what domination they were but the ideas have peeked my interest. I don't really have anyone to talk to about things so have been looking on line and found you guys.

Please help. I see the good in the bible in terms of moral teachings. How do I reconcile parts on stoning and slavery for example?

I guess we all need to think about evidence and burdens of proof. I don't think you can provide proof of bible claims by merely quoting the bible nor just try and convince he was not the messiah but some video. Rational thinking about what you think is true is the most reliable way to find the most likely