Fidei Defensor

Lol I addressed the claims not Omegaman, claims that Allen Parr of The Beat addresses in his video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLEwALutUc I only tackled two claims about Joyce. I used a video showing she does not hold views. No one has yet provided ample proof she did before save sound bytes I question because they are easily altered. If anyone has video and booo of hers making claims 1) and 2) then share em. But ai tire of doing all the work, reading her book to see if she said that, checking videos and soundbytes while you people hurl accusations at her and me. Fair Well, I really hope our mansions in heaven are far.. far.. apart, cuz I don’t want you as a neighbor.

Of course, you must answer with your conscious. This thread would be dull if no one disagreed. In disagreeing we often learn more.

My mind isn’t made up. I am examinimg facts. I shared the video where Joyce herself in her own words affirms Jesus is the Son of God and we keep sinning (that she does not say she isn’t a sinner). I am now going to read her book where people claim she wrote about Jesus going hell and being tormented, to see if she says that. I paid 7.99 USD to read and confirm or disprove if that claim against her is true or false. As always its about quality of evidence and sources. That is what matters.

Thanks. Its 78 pages on Amazon Kindle. I’ll buy it and read it and report back.

What is book’s name? I may be able to find it. I haven’t been able to get the book’s name.

Yeah that one I can’t find any direct source to, its a quote of some book she allegedly wrote. I want to share something I learned, Nestorius was credited as founding a heretical group that believed there are two christs, one flesh and evil, one spirit and good. When Nestorius was tried for heresy, they found he had been trying to simply explain the two natures of Christ as both God and Man (Romans 1:1-5) to people, and they in their misunderstanding founded a cult (Nestorianism) using his name. Sadly even though Nestorius was cleared of saying heresy, the damage was done, people associate the heresy with him because people misunderstanding what he taught created a doctrine out of it. His name is Mud now. That is a concern I also have for people, if they are accused, it can stick even after they are cleared.

So Worthy! Amen and Amen! “Matthew 7:1-5 Judging Others [1] “Judge not, that you be not judged. [2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. [3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? [4] Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? [5] You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

I didn’t say writings weren’t concrete. Voice recordings bother me because on News channels I have heard them doctored. My issue is only with sound bytes. Writings depends. If its someone’s blog who quotes her, I am less inclined, if itd in ine of her blogs, books, tracts and etc from Joyce Meyer’s Ministries, that is more concretw proof. The quality of sources matter, there are people who try to discredit anc destroy and use texts and etc out of context. Its best to have the person’s actual words in their own book or video to prove they really said that, “horse’s mouth,” rather than someone claiming they said that.

Uh I posted the claims people made about her, and then shared her own video that debunked two of those claims. Its not love of a speaker. I actually haven’t watched Joyce in years. I made it my duty to investigate heretical claims against her, to see if what lots of people said was true, because Scripture tells us slander is evil, “Do not speak evil against one another, brothers.” (James 4:11) “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:16) “To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.” (Titus 3:2) “So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander.” (1 Peter 2:1) “nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:10) I take these verses very seriously as I do all Scripture, that slandering is evil. Again if you have concrete proof of heresy, and wish to fight it, then that is fine. But allegations against a sister in Christ, Joyce Meyer, have been made that have been proven to be unfounded by her own words on her own ministry: I believe the Church is tearing itself apart with slander, gossip, and accusing one another: “But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another.” (Galatians 5:15)

This is Worthy! Well said.

Same here. I have never seen her say these things people claim are heresies she said. I have watched many of her sermons, interviews, conferences, and etc and never heard her say anything unscriptural. I believe people accusing her on youtube and on websites are envious of her success (James 3:14-16), and others don’t like she is woman that teaches, and so they seek to harm her reputation and defame her.

That is wise. But Joyce has been slandered. People said she says “Jesus Stopped Being The Son of God,” and that “she says isn’t a sinner.” She says the opposite in the video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oh1Y0Xvs2Zs She calls Jesus the Son in John 3:16 and says we still sin.

Here is Joyce on Jesus: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oh1Y0Xvs2Zs Nothing about 1) claim {Jesus stopped being Son of God} is here. She is espousing Scripture. She even quotes John 3:16 “For God So Loved The World, that He gave His Only Begotten Son..” She quotes Jesus is the Son of God refuting the 1) claim. Video also refutes claim 2) {That Joyce said she isn’t a sinner} She says we continue to sin at 5:20-5:28/ 15:18 in the video above. So both 1) and 2) claims are false according to what she says here on her video. TAG: @Omegaman 3.0@missmuffet

We should confront unsound doctrine, heresies, and false teachers, but we must have concrete proof of error, and not slander or defame. We must take care like a detective solving a crime, and make sure we gather “hard” evidence if there is any. That is my chief concern, that sound doctrine prevail, but that no one is needlessly demonized for something you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt they believe. If its published in their book or in a video, that is more concrete than sound clips that can be edited from multiple sermons to make sentences: See the movie Sneakers, “My voice is my password,” where Marty (Robert Redford) and his team have to piece together words a bald man says to create his sentence key code.

This is to continue a conversation on Joyce Meyer. Claims against her as a false teacher are: 1) She claims Jesus is no longer The Son of God (heresy) 2) She says she isn’t a Sinner On the 1) I found only a sound bites of her with a still photo on youtube. Anyone can splice words together from what she had said with movie making programs. 2) Could be semantics, she says she isn’t a sinner. The context could be, we are “A New Creation” in Christ, baptized in his death and ao are not sinners anymore but “Kings and Priests.” (Revelation 1:5-6). If she says she doesn’t sin, then that falls under, “if we say we have not sinned, we call God a liar.” (1 John 1:10) If either of these or more can be verified, then yes its heresy and must be addressed. The biggest problem is all the sound bites are grainy and doesn’t sound like her voice pitch. I’d be more convinced if there was video footage of one of her sermons. Everyone knows you can easily doctor audio. Video or a published book is harder.

I was sharing what her official positions are on doctrines according to her minstry site. Remeber brethern, we are called to “test all things,” but also not to slander either, “So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,” (1 Peter 2:1), “To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people,” (Titus 3:2), and “But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.” (Matthew 12:36) If you do not have proof of error, you run the risk of defamation suite from Joyce Meyer’s Ministries. Be warned, you gotta have concrete evidence to prove someone is a false teacher or its defamation. And why if you have proof do you not seek to contact her and address it? If someone lapses into error, it behooves those in orthodoxy to help them return to the Truth.

I’ll examine this.

Brother, I say this with concern and care as a fellow worker in the Kingdom: unless you have a reputable source, making an claim someone is in grave error, and questioning someone’s orthodoxy is harmful to their reputation unless it can be proven without reasonable doubt they said and teach said error by reputable sources. It would need even to be the source of the ministry itself (video, book, blog, and etc) where you can point to an official video or text that they said or penned such error to prove their error, not an obscure video on a unknown site like truthaboutjoycemeyer.org, or even Google where a video and text can be bisected, altered, and misinterpreted. If for instance someone said, “Martin Luther is false, he preached..” they would need to show his work that he wrote error in as proof, not say well on the internet someone said Luther preached. People must be credible, unless they are proved to be not credible by facts from reputable sources. “Innocent till proven guilty.” Otherwise we will “bite and devour one another.” (Galatians 5:15). We are still on topic, I used Joyce Meyer as a source for Women in Ministry. She is a woman in ministry, and perhaps one of more visible ones like Beth Moore in this debate if women can be teachers.

Joyce Meyer’s Ministry Beliefs: “What We Believe Statement of Faith The Bible is the infallible Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and contains every answer to man's problems. 2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20, 21 There is one God, existing eternally in three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. John 10:30; John 14:26; Philippians 2:5-7 God is Love and He loves all people. It is His desire to reach out to those who are poor, oppressed, widowed or orphaned, and to heal the brokenhearted. Psalm 68:5,6; 1 John 4:16 Man is created in the image of God but separated from God by sin. Without Jesus we cannot have a relationship with God. Genesis 1:26; 1 Timothy 2:5 We can have a personal relationship with God through salvation, God's free gift to man. It is not a result of what we do, but it is only available through God's unearned favor. By admitting we have sinned and believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, and accepting Him as Lord, we can spend eternity with God. Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 5:1; Romans 3:24 We believe in water baptism, as taught and demonstrated by Jesus, as the way for believers to identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Matthew 3:13-17 The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a gift from God. He helps empower the believer to develop the character of Christ and live every day in God's will. Matthew 3:11; Acts 2:4 God gives all believers spiritual gifts. They are for the strengthening of God's people (the Church) and proof of God's existence and power to unbelievers. The gifts of the Spirit are active and relevant today. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 1 Peter 4:10 Sanctification is the ongoing process of allowing God's character to be developed in us. Romans 6:19; Galatians 5:22-25 ^^^ I am curious this one. If she means regeneration, I understand, but I believe Jesus sanctified us one for all time. Divine healing is active in the lives of people today through Jesus, who is the Healer. Healing includes physical, mental, emotional and spiritual restoration. Luke 9:11; Matthew 9:35; Acts 10:38; Matthew 10:1 The Bible describes hell as a real place. It is a place of suffering and a place of permanent separation from God for those who die without accepting Christ. God's desire is that no one be separated from Him for eternity, which is why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 20:12-15; John 3:16-18 God instituted marriage between a genetic male and genetic female as the foundation of the family, the basic structure of human society. God commands that no intimate sexual activity be engaged other than in the context of marriage between a man and a woman. Genesis 2:24; Mark 10:6-9; Romans 1:26-29; I Corinthians 6:9; I Thessalonians 4:1-8; Hebrews 13:4 Jesus will return and take all those who have accepted Him as Savior to be with Him for eternity. Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; Hebrews 9:28” Source: https://joycemeyer.org/about/what-we-believe TAG: @Omegaman 3.0 @missmuffet

Sources please. If you make a claim someone is a false teacher, provide the evidence. I will examine the evidence.

Can you show me proof Joyce said these things? Video or text she wrote? I’ve never heard her say such things.

-Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Well we all have our convictions. I respect your conscious on this matter, but mine differs towards an egalitarian view of teaching & teachers in the church. I look at Joyce Meyer, she has the teaching gift and her husband Dave prefers to plan the events, administrate from behind the scenes, and when he is in spotlight he is shy and doesn’t care for it. They to me are modern day Priscilla and Aquila.

Another question to ask, if say on island or in a remote town the only person who knows Jesus, The Gospel, and Sound Doctrine is a woman, is she to keep silent and so let souls perish for lack of preaching?, “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?” (Romans 10:14)

Other verses that say women can teach: “He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately.” (Acts 18:26) You always listed the teacher first back then, and it was Pricilla, the wife listed first, she was the teacher. “Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.” (Titus 2:1-5) Notice it says they should “teach what is good” (verse 3), when the verses in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12 forbids women to teach at all; which proves Paul was only forbidding teaching in certain churches, likely due to pythonesses and oracles who wanted to keep their trade and control under guise of the church; like how pagan priests became church priests under Constantine to keep their position, power, and money. “Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.” (Philippians 4:3) “He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.” (Acts 21:9) Prophets teach, they are given words from God.