Lar

Hello everyone, The song that I would like to share is kinda different. I would classify it as a Gospel/folk type of music that is sung and played (on acoustic guitar) by Tim O'Brien. I perceive that this "toe-tapping," catchy song has an edifying Christian message to it. I just happen to enjoy it; see if you do too! .. I would welcome any comments... -- Lar

Hi BK1110 and YeshuaWarrior444, I think that BK1110 makes a very important point here: "Compare what you're anxious about with the Word [i.e. compare it with the Word of God - the Bible]..." YeshuaWarrior444, I was trying to exhort you and to comfort you with regards to how (I think) that you will *feel* when you hear from God (based on my own personal experience with this), but we must always remember that the Bible: the Word of God - always takes precedence (that is, it takes "first place") over anything that we might feel with our emotions (or even think with our intellect) with regards to anything that we may *feel* (or otherwise think) that we have heard from God. I was simply trying to encourage you on an emotional level - because I think that I may have been "where you are at" with regards to your feelings of anxiety and with regards to your honestly wanting to *feel accurately* that you are hearing God. I did this because we are both human, and I have found that it is often needful to comfort and to exhort someone who is feeling anxious about anything (such as their hearing from God accurately or whatever) - first in a caring, human, emotional sort of way - rather than to always start off in an objective, logical sort of way: that may perhaps sometimes seem cold and unfeeling to the person who is feeling anxious and/or upset. But I think that BK1110 made a very important point: and, (if I understood them correctly), even when you are feeling anxious about whether or not you are hearing accurately from God, the *safest* and the most *effective* way to discern what God's will *really* is is to compare your anxious feelings, ect. to relevant scriptures from the Bible - the Word of God. But while you are doing this, just know that God (and also, other Christians), truly *do care* about what you are going through *emotionally* - such as when your mind is discomforted and you are in a state of emotional turmoil. For instance, the Bible says: "Casting all your care upon him; for he careth [cares] for you." (1 Peter 5:7) KJV (the word in brackets is mine - added for language clarification purposes) My "read" on this particular scripture is that God cares not only about our practical, (biblically-explainable and/or empirical) situation(s), but He also cares about our emotional feelings - right in the midst of these situations. So when you're logically and biblically checking out the Word of God against your anxious, emotional feelings, then please do remember that God *also* cares about your anxious feelings and your emotional state of mind. OK? <smile>

Hi YeshuaWarrior444. Welcome to WCF!! I sincerely hope and pray that you will be blessed by your time here. I also suffer from anxiety and also clinical depression - so I can relate to suffering from these things. In my experience with hearing from God, I have found that genuinely hearing from God actually gives you a feeling of peace and well-being - (even when God is rebuking you or perhaps even chastising you). Perhaps this is because part of God's basic nature is *peace* - along with love, joy, goodness, longsuffering, ect. In contrast to this, the things that you generally hear from Satan will involve feelings of fear, emotional unease and torment - and will *not* involve peace and a feeling of well-being (which - as I have found - you will experience when you genuinely hear from God). I read the other posts to you on this topic, and they definitely seemed to me to be giving you good advice. The real battle that the Christian experiences is in their mind (as has already been pointed out). And I believe that God will give you the grace to sort things out in your mind - even during those times when you are experiencing anxiety. Also, (as has already been suggested), keeping a list: of what God's nature tells you, and of what Satan's nature tells you, also struck me as being a good idea for you to do. Because during those times that you are experiencing anxiety, it will be a great help to you to read these things - because even during "subjective" (and/or anxious) times, your reading the things that are on these lists will help you to take an *objective* view towards what's really happening. God really does love you, YeshuaWarrior444 - just like a good, loving father does. And He's definitely *not* "out to get you," or to somehow try to "trip you up!" The Enemy would have you to think these things about God, but such thoughts and/or feelings as these are *not* from God! I'll pray for you - that you will learn to know and to perceive the things that are from God and the things that are from Satan. May God richly bless you - as day by day - you will be caused by God to grow in the Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua), Lar

Hello Ed J, Thanks for your response to me. You're very welcome. May God bless you too. -- Lar

Dear "Worthlessloser," I wanted to quote what you had said, but I wound up quoting Ed J instead (Hi Ed J!) Worth, (I hope it's OK with you for me to call you that), You're of *great* worth to God, Worth! Otherwise, God would not have sent His Son into the world to die for you and to save you for all eternity. But because of where your mind and your emotions are at right now, perhaps God sending His own Son into the world to die for you doesn't really mean that much to you now. But Christians here on Worthy Christian Forum have already showed love and concern for you, and I feel that perhaps that is God's way of showing *His own love for you* -- right now. Worth, please find a counsellor (preferably a Christian counsellor) to help you out: now -- right where you're at. OK? Perhaps you could post a prayer request right here on Worthy Christian Forum: in the Prayer Request section - seeking for someone who is able to help you in the way that I have just now suggested. You see: you have (in essence) shared what you did as (I suspect) an unconscious cry for help. People here are already praying for you... And I too will pray for you. So please don't give up: on life, or on yourself, or (most importantly) on God! And if you have not yet accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, then please do that right away. Just remember John 3:16 (from the Bible): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." And also: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13 Worth, the above two Bible verses are *promises* - to you and to all people - from the everlasting God - Who created all of the creation. And God does *not* lie, and He will never let you down either. Wow, I guess that I was just preaching to you, Worth. But perhaps that's because I believe with all of my heart that God's words (from the Bible) are so much stronger and so more convincing than my own (human) words could ever be. Worth, I hope that you get the chance to read what I've shared with you here -- especially the scriptures from the Bible. May God protect you, and may He make His love for you *real* to you, Lar

Hi n2thelight, I very much appreciate your thoughts here (and your definition of) Jude 1:20-21. I find that I agree with what you've shared here, and you've made (for me) a rather difficult pair of Bible passages more knowable and more comprehendible. Thank you very much for reading my post on this topic, and also, thank you for taking the time and the effort to respond to me on this. *(Note: to others who responded to my post here): Incidentally, I see that there are other persons - here on WCF - who have responded to my post here, and I would also like to thank them. May God richly bless you - one and all! Lar

Hello again Giller, Giller wrote: Heb 6:4-6 (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. The ones who were once enlightened are people who were once believers, and the ones to be renewed again to repentance, is talking about one who had truly repented (which means he was a Christian), but he completely fell away from God's ways, in a complete way. And who is Paul talking to? Heb 6:1 (1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, He is talking to believers (let us (believers) go on unto perfection). So for it to be impossible to be renewed unto repentance, you had to of first tasted of the heavenly gift, made partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. Now in another scripture God says he is married to the backslider, so in the case of Hebrews , I do not believe that it is referring to a general falling away to were you backslid to some degree, but I believe it is talking about a believer who has experienced all of these things, including the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and then denies things he knows was of the Holy Ghost, and says it is of the devil, or things of such manner, to were they have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. It is to so so knowingly. And not the fact of struggling in sin. Mar 3:22-30 (22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. (23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. (26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. (27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. (28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: (29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Giller, thank you for sharing all of these scriptures with me (and with all of us who are reading this post of yours). This topic of mine appears to somehow have been a bit of a paradox: in the sense that 1.) the truth of being one of God's *elect* is actually quite simple to understand. And yet, 2.) Hebrews 6:4-6 may (at least in a sense) be talking about those persons who commit the "unpardonable sin" - which certainly has very terrible consequences to it. And there's nothing *simple* about their doing that! Giller, (once again) many thanks to you for all the time (and for all of the effort) that you spent in your post of response to me. I never dreamed that I would have been given so much to think about when I first posted my particular post on this topic. May God bless you, and may He continue to guide you, Lar

Hi missmuffet, Thanks for sharing that truth; apparently, as long as Christians believe that Jesus is the risen Son of God, then they are of God's elect. And if they stop believing that, then they never were of God's elect. Lar P.S. (I seemed to have lost my first response to you just now - I hope that this isn't a double-post!)

Hi missmuffet (and all who have replied to me), Perhaps I may have been "splitting hairs" in my original question, but when I had first read Hebrews 6:4-6, it kind of upset me a bit. However, all of the thoughtful and interesting replies that I have received have made me feel better about things now. Thanks... Lar

Thank you Giller, My goodness, I certainly have gotten quite a bit of interest in my question. May God bless you, Lar

Hello AlexDofTX, You make an interesting point here. I do agree with your thinking on this. Thanks for reading my post. Lar

Hi The Aimes87, I understand your point... Thank you for responding to my post. Would you please read my above response to Yowm? Thank you. Lar

Hi Yowm, Thanks for your reply to my post. I understand what you are saying here. Actually, my understanding with regards to God's elect in the church age is that *none* of those born-again Christian believers who are *elect* will lose their salvation! The passages in Hebrews 6:4-6 still do confuse me a bit though. The persons that Hebrews 6:4-6 described had (apparently) been "...partakers of the Holy Ghost..." (a.k.a. the Holy Spirit). Therefore, it would appear to me that - for however short a time - these persons actually *were* born-again Christian believers. But in Hebrews 6:4-6, these persons were described as *falling away*, and therefore, unable to renew their salvation. (because if so, then it would mean the unthinkable - that is, that Christ would have to be crucified all over again on their behalf - which, [the Bible says] - would then have exposed Him to open shame - and therefore, this would be not only unthinkable but also impossible! Therefore, I have to conclude that the persons spoken of in Hebrews 6:4-6 were - (even if only in a temporary way) - "Christians." So therefore, it does not seem to me that these persons could possibly have been of God's elect. Because God's elect are (spiritually) spoken of (in Romans 8) as having *already* been glorified. So are *all* true born-again Christians of God's elect? Yes they are -- but with the possible exception of the "temporary Christians" spoken of in Hebrews 6:4-6. Yowm, do you see why the passages in Hebrews 6:4-6 tend to confuse me? Certainly, God *already knows* who is (and who isn't) going to be genuinely saved. So maybe I'm just "splitting hairs" here, but it does somehow appear that there will be some persons, who, (if even only for a little while) will have the "status" of being "Christians," but who will *not* be of God's elect. And *that* was what prompted me to ask my question in the first place. Lar

Hi Sister, Yes indeed - your well thought-out post of response to me here really did help! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me, and to my post. May God bless you, Lar

Hello all, I've been trying to figure out who God's "elect" are. Some Christians (who believe in "once saved, always saved") apparently believe that *all* born-again Christians are of God's "elect." When speaking of God's "elect," I found the following Bible verses to be of interest: "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30) NKJV [and then, just a few verses later]: "Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies." (Romans 8:33) NKJV From these Bible verses, it appears to me that with regards to God's "elect," salvation is already a "done deal." Could this mean then that "once saved, always saved" is accurate for *all* born-again Christians? Perhaps... However, I found something in the book of Hebrews that may possibly indicate that at least some born-again Christians *can* lose their salvation: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6) KJV Please notice: the people being spoken of here were "...made partakers of the Holy Ghost..." [i.e., of the Holy Spirit]. Apparently, these people *had* become born-again Christian believers, and yet, by "falling away," they appear to have lost their salvation. But if they lost their salvation, then it would seem (at least to me) to indicate that they - even though having become born-again Christian believers (at least, for a period of time) - were *not* of God's "elect." So my question is: are *all* born-again Christian believers of God's "elect," or not? Does anyone here have any thoughts to share on this? (Thanks for reading my post.) Lar