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steve w

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  1. Musings about Hell pt2

    As usual there are problems with every biblical story. Satan was once an angel, then Lucifer (the giver of light) but then rebelled against God to become a fallen angel and the prince of darkness. He will tempt you in so many ways. He is responsible for all the evil in the world, past and present. Quite a guy. God is the creator of all things. The Earth with its life, the Universe with its 2 trillion galaxies, then why did God feel the need to create the Devil? That's mean!
  2. I'm A Roman Catholic

    How do you justify transubstantiation? Is the bread and wine actually changed into the body and blood of Christ? I don't believe it has changed at all. It is still molecules of what goes into making bread and wine. There has been nothing added and nothing taken away. We would need to rewrite the laws of physics if it had changed. It is a ritual which goes back well before the Catholic church was ever invented. A combined celebration of Ceres, goddess of the corn, and Bacchus or Dionysus, god of wine and intoxication. If there actually was a change into body and blood, that would be a form of cannibalism.
  3. Easter 2018

    I'm certainly atheist to the replies I get here, but I would argue to more rational people that Thomas Paine's argument against theism and atheism is a good one to support deism. The Universe is by current estimates nearly 14 billion years old. Life began on earth some 4 billion years ago. But I am told the Flood began 4359 years ago, and the world began 4004 BCE. You know you have no evidence to support this idea. Neanderthals died out some 30,000 years ago, well before the biblical timeline. Revelation 21:8. "Unbelievers will burn in hell...". Sounds crystal clear to me. A loving God who sends people to the underworld in burn forever. But then we are informed that Jesus descended there to rescue all those who had never heard his message. Now, wait a minute. Is there another god before who had ever done this? Orpheus, for one. He descended into the underworld, as did most of the other crucified saviours of dark antiquity. Jesus then becomes just another reinterpretation of this ancient myth. Hardly a coincidence. I am always mystified as to Jesus. He was a man. The Catholic church affirm this. Yet his father was a ghost or spirit. So he cannot have inherited the DNA of his mother and father. I will assume spirits do not have DNA. So he could not have been a man. Babies inherit their DNA from both their human parents (half and half). He was a shepherd. He was a fisherman. He was a lamb. He was even a plant (a vine). Strange how he had elements of other gods. Orpheus, Horus, Dionysus, Krishna, to name but a few.
  4. Easter 2018

    I became an atheist when I actually got the point of Christianity, when it condemns to death all who do not believe in the God of Abraham. Utter nonsense. How many people who ever lived even knew about Jesus? The number of people who have ever lived is probably in excess of 100 billion. The official Christian view is that there are more people alive today than have ever existed. This is a lie. The history of the human race goes back about 2 million years. Many species of human have existed, including the Neanderthals who died out only 30,000 years ago. Were they descended from Adam and Eve? It makes the Bible look ridiculous. I find that of all the gods of antiquity, I am only atheist to one more god than you are. Still don't know why Easter is not a fixed date, like Christmas, and you've confused me even more by saying Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. So why do we have Good Friday, and not Good Wednesday? I think all of you who focus on loving your neighbour should consider the damage this statement has done. Focus instead on having empathy for others, and even animals if you like. That would never do as Christians believe humans have domain over all animals.
  5. Easter 2018

    Obviously you believe the Bible is not full of holes. When I attended the Catholic church I became sick and tired of hearing about how we should all love one another, almost to the point of negation. I think other members of the congregation felt a little uneasy about this constant repetition, also. When I asked about the veracity of a dubious biblical tale I was told to ignore its literal meaning, and treat it as allegorical. The story of Jesus as a virgin born crucified saviour was true but the other examples of virgin born crucified saviours in antiquity were to be dismissed. However, having read Karen Armstrong, she found that even the nuns in her convent did not believe in the historical truth of the Resurrection. To take the Bible literally would be a gross error. Take this passage from Proverbs 25:22 ''Thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.--Thou shalt make him burn with shame at the thought of the wrong he has done thee. Thus, to bring a sinner to repentance is well-pleasing to the Lord, who shall reward thee for it.'' It is also found in Romans 12:20. So what happened to 'Love thy neighbour'? How about Psalm 137:9 ''Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.'' So what am I to consider a biblical truth or just an allegory? One way of looking at this is Plato's Allegory of the cave. Should I take the Bible literally then I would imply that the world is of fairly recent origin by calculating backwards through the generations? Should I consider it to be flat as it is referred to by having four corners? Should I dismiss the scientific evidence to support what is just the opposite? One thing the clergy want to avoid is any talk of scientific evidence. It is dangerous ground for them, and you need to make this choice.
  6. Easter 2018

    Physical beatings, mind control, drowning, burning, murder, slavery, rape. Even self flagellation as practiced by none other than Pope JP2. Yes, Christianity has it all and much more. Richest people in some countries are the pastors. The ones who fake miracles, such as in Nigeria. The ones who attribute economic development to God, such as in Guatemala, by the use of dangerous chemicals to grow giant sized vegetables. Who cares about the long term health risks, when it is all down to God.
  7. Is the bible to be taken literally?

    Many people will only interpret what they want to believe. The Bible is the classic example of this. When did you ever hear a preacher talk about the killer god of the OT? The god who orders the killing. When did you ever hear a preacher talk about slavery and how the Bible never condemns it? Rather, it appears to support it. How about God's treatment of women? How about the violence, the child abuse, the torture, the hatred of gays? How about the kindly Jesus who drowns defenseless animals, suffers the little children to come unto him and fools the public with simple conjuring tricks. Whenever did they give you a history lesson on the 30 Years War, or the Taiping Rebellion when some nut thinking himself to be Jesus' brother led to the death of up to 100 million in China? Think for yourself. Don't be deceived by what you think it says in the Bible. The early Christians were a doomsday cult, a bit like the JW's today. They believed they were living in end times. After 2000 years we can dismiss that one. The Bible is reinterpreted to suit every changing generation. Christianity was never intended to be a religion of love. In the near million words of the Bible there is remarkably little love.
  8. Easter 2018

    This is desperate. A stance also taken by Bill O'Reilly. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bill_O'Reilly And never forget the Ryan Report into child abuse in the Catholic Church in Ireland.
  9. Easter 2018

    This is my creed: I do not believe in any religion. I am atheist with respect to all gods of antiquity. I do not believe in the supernatural which is the basis of all religion. I believe everything has a natural cause which can be explained scientifically. I believe that all scripture is fiction. I do not celebrate any religious festival. I am a realist and not a theist.
  10. Easter 2018

    Well, after a truly miserable Easter (it never stopped raining and there are floods everywhere) I am once again wondering as to why the Church do not make it a fixed date in April when the weather is likely to be better and not a moveable feast date in accordance with the full moon following the equinox. Working people would love an opportunity to get out and about in the sunshine. We have little enough of it in the UK, and few Christians actually attend church. I don't care about its pagan roots in Babylonia or wherever. Obviously its name implies the rising of the sun in the east and its date after the point when the days start to become longer than the nights. You can argue until the end of time but Christians will still believe what they want to believe and are not interested in reality. There is zero historical evidence for when Jesus was born or when he was crucified. It's all a matter of faith and faith alone. A pity there is no evidence, then faith would be redundant. In 2019 Easter Sunday falls on April 21st the UK. I think this proves the point.
  11. Easter 2018

    '' If that thinking is broadened to their week, then though Jesus died on a Friday - did they count the previous night, Thursday night as part of Friday? If so, there are your three days and three nights. So he was in the tomb before he was crucified. Sorry, but my logic cells do not extend to that. Now Jesus died for all our sins by allowing himself to be crucified. But how did he know I was coming? If my parents hadn't met then there is a very strong probability that someone else would be here in my place, and if my grandparents hadn't met my parents wouldn't have been around, either. And so on back to the beginning of human time. Now, Pope Francis has appeared by some accounts to have cast doubt on the existence of Hell. Wicked souls simply disappear. He may mean even good unbelievers will suffer both death and fire, but murderers need only repent, but if they don't their souls will extinguish. This is consistent with what I was told when I attended the Catholic church. Sinners can still repent even at the last second of their existence. If the pope is confused then I'm sure I am.
  12. Easter 2018

    Some good replies, but I'm still in the dark as to why this most significant date was not accurately recorded. I've tended to think that Easter is based on pagan festival dates, the spring equinox (not always March 21st), the full moon, the Sun's holy day (Sunday), but this apparent fact is never acknowledged by the Church. It gives the impression that Christ given the task of ending paganism is commemorated with reference to pagan dates. I know the Archbishop of Canterbury wants it changed to a fixed date as obviously the present system confuses the faithful. Making it a fixed date, let's say the second weekend in April would be quite popular, just as Christmas is very popular. I'm not sure if all churches celebrate Easter and Christmas on the same dates, which adds further to the confusion. Another question I have, which appears not to have been resolved is this. 'For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40; NKJV). So how was Jesus 3 days and 3 nights in the grave from Friday to Sunday. Shouldn't that be 3 days and 2 nights?
  13. Easter 2018

    Most significant event in the Christian calendar this week. A bit early this year, though. Why is it not held on a fixed date? I know you can help me with this one.
  14. Am I bound for hell?

    So 3 months and only 33 posts before this and I'm tiresome. If I were an atheist I could argue that I am only atheistic to one more god than you. I'm sure you are atheistic towards all other of gods of antiquity apart from your own. I am still hoping for reason and evidence to support Christianity. I've never found any to support so many conflicting Christian beliefs I've encountered. I still don't know if Heaven is only for Catholics or does it welcome any members of whatever faith provided they believe in Jesus. Might you have a Mormon for a neighbour up there? The snag I found with Catholicism is that you cannot enter into Heaven unless you first enter Purgatory. From there you need intercession to stand any chance of being admitted to Heaven. Other denominations go straight there, yet Catholicism is the biggest one on the planet. Where is the logic?
  15. Am I bound for hell?

    Not only is the Catholic church a repository for paedophiles and homosexuals (as you put it). It just so happens to get the worst press because it's the biggest and most hated. Why are you trying to include homosexuals with paedophiles? Yes, I know. The Bible condemns them. Strange how it doesn't condemn slavery. How about YOU proving heaven and hell are REAL places. Give me the spatial coordinates. Are they above earth, below earth, outside the known universe or where? Do I think that Christianity is a religion or organisation? Of course I do. A religion relies on faith as a substitute for evidence. If there was evidence it would be science. There is zero historical evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed, but there is plenty to suggest his story is based on older solar deities such as Mithras and Horus. Where does it say in the Bible he was born on Christmas Day and was crucified at Easter? These are pagan festival days connected to the winter solstice and the start of spring. I have not been physically harmed by any Christian, but like so many I have been subjected to their lies and propaganda.