Paul River

There is nothing in the text that says the 144,000 are Jewish evangelists. Nada! It's a myth! What they are is found in Jude 14, 15 and because they are defined as Firstfruits in Revelation 14:4 means they are resurrected, glorified saints. Those who will rule with Christ in Rev 2:26 are the ones who overcome, as is the case of those who are in the Rev 20:4 passage

Yes, it is a Shabbat rest after all of the drama of the tribulation. I see it as more of a Sukkot period, knowing that this is the Feast that takes us back to the garden, but Shabbat rest works as well.

You are correct - Israel's inheritance is from the Gihan or Blue Nile to the Tigris River . . . the same area that the new Jerusalem will take up.

Messiah and the Millennial Kingdom - The passages of scripture that prophecy about Messiah ruling during the Millennial Kingdom are found in both the Old and New Testaments, but it is the Old Testament prophecies we are less familiar with so let's start there. Once again, we can distill these prophecies into several distinct categories that will help us build a sound hermeneutic on the topic. The Branch “Then say to him, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. “Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.” Zechariah 6:12-15 See also: Jeremiah 23:5, 6, Jeremiah 33:15, 16, Zechariah 3:8, 9, The throne of Judah was established forever “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. “He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever." 2 Samuel 7:12, 13 See also: Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:12, 13, Psalm 89:34-37, Daniel 7:21–22 Messiah's rule during the Millennial Kingdom "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this." Isaiah 9:6, 7 See also: Psalm 2:7-9, Isaiah 42:1-4, Jeremiah 30:7-10, Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:13, 14, Malachi 3:1-4 Messiah will guide and bless the people of Israel “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. “They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever." Ezekiel 37:24, 25 See also: Isaiah 25:6-9, Isaiah 61:1-5, Ezekiel 34:23-27, Ezekiel 37:24, 25, Daniel 7:21–22 Messiah will usher in a time of peace and abundance "And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations. Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war. Each of them will sit under his vine And under his fig tree, With no one to make them afraid, For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken." Micah 4:3, 4 See also: Isaiah 11:6–9, Ezekiel 47:8–12

The Millennial Kingdom has much to do with Israel Most of the church views Israel and the Temple as an abrogated system, a vestigial organ that is no longer relevant in the Age of Grace. We have perpetual discussions about how the Jews refuse to see the Isiah 53 suffering servant passage and yet have no idea how many prophetic passages there are about the exalted Nation of Israel. And so many of these prophecies have never been fulfilled, which should be curious because God cannot lie! The prophecies fall into a few main categories that will help us appreciate the weight of these promises: 1) The Ingathering of Israel "Then it will happen on that day that the Lord will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea. And He will lift up a standard for the nations and assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Isaiah 11:11, 12 See also: Jeremiah 23:7,8, Hosea 3:4-5, Amos 9:13-15 2) Restoring Israel's Fortunes “'The voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of those who say, “Give thanks to the LORD of hosts, For the LORD is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting”; and of those who bring a thank offering into the house of the LORD. For I will restore the fortunes of the land as they were at first,’ says the LORD." Jeremiah 33:11 See also: Jeremiah 30:18, Jeremiah 30:3, Jeremiah 32:44, Jeremiah 33:26, Ezekiel 39:25, Hosea 6:11, Joel 3:1 3) The promised inheritance of the land of Israel "He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations, The covenant which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac. Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant, Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan As the portion of your inheritance,” Psalms 105:8-11 See also: Genesis 13:14, 15, 1 Chronicles 17:9, Isaiah 60:21, Ezekiel 36:24–28, Ezekiel 37:11-14 4) The glory of Jerusalem *Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them." Zechariah 14:16 See also: Isaiah 2:3, Zechariah 8:20-22, Zechariah 14:10, 11 5) The veneration of Mount Zion "Now it will come about that in the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:2, 3 See also: Isaiah 56:7, Haggai 2:5-9, Micah 4:1-7 6) The reverence of the people of Israel “Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." Zechariah 8:23

So to clarify what I'm saying that I believe in my first post on this topic of the Millennial Kingdom is that everyone heading into the Millennial Kingdom is either a mortal believer who has survived the tribulation or a resurrected, glorified believer like the 144,000 and those described in Rev 20:4. Messiah is ruling as King in Jerusalem and Satan is bound for this entire 1000 years period. What does this imply, you ask? A couple of things I might suggest: 1) The complexity of the redemptive event of the Millennial Kingdom does say something about our fast food service approach to Western Christianity - that so many including pastors would be unable to comment or reflect on this inevitable event in our future. 2) That God is up to more than just saving people and creating the church 3) Not mentioned yet, but there is something significant about God fulfilling his promises to Israel through this age 4) I also believe there is also something profound about the connection between the Earthly Temple and the Heavenly Tabernacle but too early to delve into this esoteric abyse.

We see the timeline of this 1000-year reign of Messiah in Revelation 20:4 - 6 "Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." So for those blessed individuals who will "Rule and Reign" with our Messiah, this event is known as the "First Resurrection" and will be for the ones who "Overcome" "He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Fathe" Revelation 2:26-27 Included in this ruling class of resurrected and glorified saints that will "Rule and Reign" with Messiah would be the 144,000 messianic saints as they will be the "first fruits to God and to the Lamb" Rev 14:4 But more will be included other than these select few in the ruling class. All of those true believers who live through the tribulation will be brought into the Kingdom. Mat 25:31 - 34 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." Included among those who will transition over to the Millennial Kingdom will be every living Israeli (Romans 11:26) who has been saved at his coming (Rev 19)

I appreciate the effort, Retrobyter . . . but: Let me explain my escatology hermeneutic and see if it helps fit the few passages you have cited here: I believe the grand theme of the book of Revelation is “The Heavenly Tabernacle” as described in Hebrews 8:3-5, 9:11-14. Revelation is about worship in the Heavenly Tabernacle, where there are 10 celebrations of worship throughout the book, and after each celebration of worship, something remarkable happens. Just as there were 10 plagues in the Exodus account until Pharaoh let the people of Israel go, in Revelation, the enemies of God are driven out of their strongholds and judged through the course of these 10 celebrations of worship. I would suggest these 10 celebrations of worship are: 1) Revelation 1:10-16 2) Revelation 4:8-11 3) Revelation 5:8-14 4) Revelation 7:9-12 5) Revelation 8:1-5 6) Revelation 11:15-17 7) Revelation 12:10-12 8) Revelation 14:2-3 9) Revelation 15:3-5 10) Revelation 19:1-6 The book of Hebrews discusses how Christ is now the High Priest in the order of MELCHIZEDEK, and the Heavenly Tabernacle from chapter 5 to chapter 13, and here we find specific references throughout the book of Revelation regarding the Heavenly Tabernacle / Temple in Revelation 3:12, 7:15, 11:1, 19, 13:6, 14:15, 15:5, 6, 8, 16:1, 17, 21:3, 22. However, we can also find specific references to or allusions to all of the elements within the Wilderness Tabernacle / Temple, including: The Menorah Rev 1:10 - 16, The Brazen Sea Rev 4:2, 15:2, The Lamb Sacrifice Rev 5:5-6, The Priesthood Rev 5:9, 10, The Altar Rev 6:9-10, 8:3, The Ark of the Covenant Rev 11:19, and The Showbread Table Rev 14:14-20. So the book of Revelation is a kind of instruction on how God will use worship to drive the enemies of God out of their strongholds, and judged. Here in chapter 14 we have Messiah and his Holy Ones (aka 144,000) show up on Mt Zion, just as it prophecied in Daniel 8:13, Zechariah 14:4, Matthew 24:31, 25:31, and Jude 14. The 144,000 sing a new song (Revelation 14:2-3) no one could learn except the 144,000, and then the harvest event happens in chapter 14 with the wheat and grape harvests. The reason for this specific imagery is because God is preparing His Showbread table. One more celebration of worship (Revelation 15:3-5) before the anti-creation event of Rev 16, and then Mystery Babalon, The beast, the antichrist (and then after the 1000-year reign of Messiah on earth), satan is finally thrown in the fire. So many things line up in Biblical prophecy for this Rev 14 harvest event to be defined as the rapture. 1) The harvest imagery of Messiah's wheat and Tares parable in Matthew 13 2) The ascension of the antichrist in Rev 13 3) The return of Messiah with His Holy ones in Revelation 14

I would say that the Tares have been pulled out already from the time of Revelation 14 - In Rev 12, Satan is cast out of heaven, and in Rev 13, the beast and the antichrist have been ejected from their strongholds. . . to be stacked up and burned.

Thank you for your contribution, William, but the connections you are making to Firstfruits are too esoteric and share no real connections to the text here in Revelation 14. Messiah is the first-fruits 1Co 15:20, as are the 144,000 Rev 14:4 but the harvest of Revelation 14:14-20 is the application of the Wheat and the Tares of Matthew 13:24-30, and a result of Messiah's second coming Revelation 14:1.

The operative term in John 3:13 is no one "has ascended' (past tense), so it certainly does not apply here. And all of Revelation 7 is in the setting of Heaven! 1) John is in the spirit, in Heaven Rev 4:1 2) The angel that instructed the other angels at the four corners of the earth ascended to heaven Rev 7:2 3) The 144,000 are sealed in heaven as they, "had been purchased from the earth" and they are "first fruits to God and to the Lamb" Rev 14:3, 4 4) The a great multitude which no one could count, is in heaven because they are, "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" Rev 7:9, they serve Him day and night in His temple and who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them" Rev 7:15

So . . . those saints were just wondering around here on earth with their white robes Rev 6:11. Someone is being pretentious! Come on Keras, the New Jerusalem or Bride of Christ comes down from Heaven and down to the earth Rev 21:10. And we see those same saints in Rev 7:9-17 in heaven with their fancy white robes, we see them again in Rev 19:7, 8, and again in Rev 20:4. The saints are in heaven and do not come back done until after the Millennial Kingdom.

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:16-17

Lot of work went into this

I'm arguing for the mid-trib position - which would hold that the second half of the tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble and not the whole 7 years.