BeyondET

2 minutes ago, NConly said:

yes I have heard of the deep darkness. However deep water or deep darkness does not imply that ice is deep imo

The word deep can apply to a lot of things really, like deep thinking 🤔 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Sure there could be.  Why do you disagree? Ice is solid and melting water is liquid so each CAN have a face.

So, please explain what "face" refers to twice.

The Bible SAYS the Spirit was hovering over the face of the waters.  Deal with it.

No speculation whatsoever.

New International Version
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

New Living Translation
The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

English Standard Version
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Berean Standard Bible
Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

King James Bible
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

New King James Version
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

New American Standard Bible
And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

NASB 1995
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

NASB 1977 
And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Legacy Standard Bible 
And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Amplified Bible
The earth was formless and void or a waste and emptiness, and darkness was upon the face of the deep [primeval ocean that covered the unformed earth]. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.

Christian Standard Bible
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

American Standard Version
And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Earth was chaos and empty and darkness on the faces of the depths and the Spirit of God hovered on the faces of the waters.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep, and the Spirit of God moved over the water.

Contemporary English Version
The earth was barren, with no form of life; it was under a roaring ocean covered with darkness. But the Spirit of God was moving over the water. 

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters. 

English Revised Version
And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Spirit of God was hovering over the water.

Good News Translation
the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the Spirit of God was moving over the water. 

International Standard Version
When the earth was as yet unformed and desolate, with the surface of the ocean depths shrouded in darkness, and while the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters, 

JPS Tanakh 1917
Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

Literal Standard Version
and the earth was formless and void, and darkness [was] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God [was] fluttering on the face of the waters,

Majority Standard Bible
Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

New American Bible
and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

NET Bible
Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water.

New Revised Standard Version
the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

New Heart English Bible
Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was on the surface of the watery depths. And God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

World English Bible
The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters. 

Young's Literal Translation
the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
 

See for yourself.

The heavens was in the beginning too and before earth. It's mentioned first, darkness was on the face of the deep. There's no let there be light amidst the waters.

Where's the heavens in the beginning. Your all about the earth in the beginning what about the heavens?

2 hours ago, NConly said:

I always heard water  described as deep. I have never heard ice being described as deep. Seems there was no ice.

You ever heard of the deep darkness of space?.

On 4/12/2024 at 7:40 AM, FreeGrace said:

Think of a deep ice pack.  Where would the "face" be located?  at the surface.  Now think of melting waters.  Where would the "face" be located?  at the surface.

Please answer my question.  About the Holy Spirit hovering over the face of the waters.

I don't mean like cousins.  Where are the light located?  In the expanse.

What a question.  It is the melting waters that are deep.  Just like the ice pack.

Irrelevant.  I'm talking Gen 1:2.  Where are you?

Your point?

There wouldn't be two faces one of the ice pack and another of the waters melting.

To say God was hovering thus melting the ice pack is pure speculation.

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

What I read is "face of the deep" and "face of the waters".  All in one verse.  Why wouldn't they be related;  the deep and the waters.  Seems kinda obvious to me.

What do you think is meant by the Holy Spirit hovering over the face of the waters?

ps:  of course there is a "face" to melting waters.  Water that is melting does have a 'face'.  It's the surface of the puddle, pond, lake, sea or ocean.

Just because it's in the same verse doesn't they are the same. The lights and the expanse is in one verse doesn't mean they are related.

how can deep melt? Water can be in three states yet its water nonetheless rather solid liquid or gas.

It mentions darkness and that's where light was separated.

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

A very thick ice pack would be very "deep".  The "waters" would indicate melting the ice pack from the Holy Spirit hovering over the pack.

Scripture would only mentioned the face of the deep, if that's the case. Ice melting doesn't have a face it's just melting.

17 hours ago, IgnatioDeLoyola said:

Dear @dad2,

I do genuinely understand this argument but, as a qualified physicist, I am obliged to tell you that it is misinformed, and undercuts many other solid apologetic arguments for God's existence and precise design of the universe.

The reason for my disagreement with you has to do with how fundamental the laws governing radioactivity are to the nature and consistency of matter and the universe.

Most people, unless they have studied physics, don't understand just how fundamental radioactivity is to the formation and nature of matter. Let me try to explain.

What is a nucleus?

Every atom has a "nucleus". This is a very small ball of positively charged protons, and neutral neutrons, that form the core of an atom, and determine its fundamental qualities such as weight, size, chemical element, nature (metal, gas, etc.).

The nucleus is a fine balance of different forces - some attractive, and some repulsive. For example, protons (being positive) repel each other through the "electromagnetic force". Protons and neutrons attract each other through the "strong force". In total, there are 6 types of "forces" (or 5 if you exclude gravity, which only applies to very very large nuclei, like neutron stars) which effect the energetic balance of nuclei.

Why do some Nuclei decay?

If a nucleus is too energetic, it cannot exist because it would instantly split apart. Indeed, there are many, many possible universes where nuclei cannot exist, because the balance of fundamental forces has to be "just right" for any matter to exist at all. You may have heard of "fine tuning" arguments for God's existence - this is one of them. 

Now, some nuclei exist on the "border" of being stable and unstable. That is, they are quite energetic, but not energetic enough to split immediately and therefore not exist. We call these nuclei radioactive - and exactly how radioactive they are depends on how much energy they have within them, depending on the balance of these fundamental forces. This balance determines how often these nuclei decay, and this determines their half life.

As you have noted in your post, if you change some fundamental constants (or if they were different in the past), then you can change the half-life of these elements. BUT - this creates a LOT more problems / questions than it answers, because of how fundamental these forces are to nature. 

Here are some of the questions / issues changes in these fundamental constants creates:

If nuclei were more unstable in the past, elements that are currently stable would have been unstable back then. 

To make radioactive decay faster in the past, you need to alter some of the fundamental balance and constants of forces in nature. The result will necessarily make ALL nuclei more unstable. In-so-doing, you widen the number and scope of nuclei that are unstable, creating huge amounts more radioactivity.

Why would God do this? How would he prevent this extra radioactivity damaging humans, and other life on earth?

Indeed, if nuclei were more unstable in the past, some radioactive elements couldn't have existed at all, obliterating many of the decay-chains we find in rocks today. From the evidence we have today, this clearly didn't happen.

Radioactivity produces heat. Making every nucleus way more unstable would destroy the earth and everything in it. 

Most folks don't know this, but the earth's core is kept molten through radioactive decay, and the heat released by it. By definition, ALL decay causes energy to be released from nuclei - because radioactive decay is the process by which nuclei become less energetic, and thus more stable.

This is why nuclear power stations work - they stimulate decay to become faster in a chain reaction - and this creates heat which drives turbines. It is also how nuclear fission (uranium / plutonium) bombs work - through the instant, or near instant,  release of nuclear decay energy.

If radioactive decay had been much faster and more widespread in the past, not only would the rocks and minerals it occurs in have melted and reset their radiometric dates, but in fact the earth would have melted and at least partially vapourised. Such is the level of energy released by radioactivity. Clearly this did not happen at any time from the Genesis narrative onwards.

There is no alteration of constants / forces that would make radioactivity accelerate by the same amount in different radioactive elements. 

For your hypothesis to hold true, there must be a constant or set of constants that you can alter that accelerates radioactive decay by the same rate / ratio in all radioactive substances. Otherwise, you wouldn't have different methods of radiometric dating agreeing on ages so often in the same rock. 

In other words, decay would have to become exactly 4 billion times faster in Rubidium-87, Uranium-235, Uranium-238, Potassium-40, etc, etc all at the same time.

But these elements have very, very different nuclei, that will be effected differently by changing certain fundamental forces. There is no constant, or set of constants, that you can change to make these nuclei's decay rates rise by the exact same ratio or multiplier. 

Therefore any proposed change would make radiometric dates differ radically depending on what dating method you used. This would be immediately apparent in almost all radiometric dating results, except those tiny tiny few that just so happened to agree by accident / coincidence.

If the Universe is "fine tuned" for creation to exist, why would God mess with this fine-tuning post-hoc ex-facto?. 

I think this question speaks for itself - but to drive home the point, if God created the universe perfectly so that life could exist, why would he make matter fundamentally more stable after the fall of man, or after the flood?

Wasn't the universe and everything in it created perfectly by God in the first place? Why would God make the universe's matter more unstable, then wait for man to sin, then make all matter more stable? 

While this is a theological rather than scientific argument, it still presents a considerable obstacle to accepting your narrative.

Summary

Sorry this was such a long and technical post @dad2. But I'm sure you can see why it had to be. In short, your hypothetical scenario is based on ignorance of the underlying physics behind radioactivity. It doesn't make sense or hold up to any form of logical scrutiny.

More than that, it doesn't produce the world we observe today (and thus cannot explain it), nor can it possibly fit in with the narrative we find in the book of Genesis. And, it opens up the possibility that God created the world in some way "wrongly" to begin with, and had to tune fundamental physics as a result, which is obviously not the case.

Sorry if that conclusion is blunt. I know you didn't mean badly or harmfully in your original post.

Best

I

I wonder what new info on radiation decay if any in dark matter or maybe something else happening in non-baryonic matter. It can be detectable by the gravitational influences it has in the universe yet eludes direct detection.

20 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."  The fool searches for answers with the creation.  The wise man searches for answers with the Creator.

So there is more understanding of Genesis?, because the wise man searches for the answers with the creator.

On 4/5/2024 at 1:39 PM, FreeGrace said:

Interesting question!  The plural of 'water' in v.2, in the Hebrew, refers to melting water.  

v.2 - The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Red words would explain a deep ice cover over the earth, resulting in the darkness.  The word "hovering" is:

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to hover
NASB Translation
hovers (1), moving (1).

Some Hebrew scholars say this is describing the process by which birds hatch their eggs, through warmth.  So the Spirit of God was melting the ice pack, to prepare for the restoration.

The word "tohu" occurs 10 times in the OT, 3 times with "wabohu".  The following words are how "tohu" was translated elsewhere in the OT:

 

chaos, desolation, futile, waste place (3), confusion, formless (2).  But Jer 4:23 cannot be ‘formless’ since it describes the total destruction of land by a besieging army that destroys nations (from context).  So should be 4 x for “wasteland/place”.  None of these words can be applied to original perfect creation of the earth.  ALL of these translations describe very negative conditions.

And all objects HAVE form.  No object lacks form.  That was a terrible translation.

 

There's two faces mentioned in v2, they are not one in the same. One is the deep and the other is the waters.

12 hours ago, RdJ said:

There were mountains, so there must have been plates bumping into each other and earthquakes to form them on the initial earth before Adam was created. Thats not evolution. I read that a creationist came up with plate tectonics and they didnt believe him, but he thought it happened during the flood and they say it took billions of years and went slow.

I don't believe evolution theory, but the geologic time scale is useful when you just don't look at the ages they give it. They assume it took billions of years to form layers. I believe that their time scheme is off and the layers with fossils are caused by the flood. The light animals go to the bottom. But under those layers are old layers and mountains with no fossils, so that must have been earthquakes at creation before there was life. Proverbs 8.

I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled.

 

Huh wonder when the settling will happen. The Nanga Parbat mountain in Pakistan is the fastest growing mountain on earth around .27 inches a year. It will eventually surpass mt. everest as the tallest on earth.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

No.  The whale had him in its mouth.  He was not swallowed.  source

And Jonah couldn't have been in the same situation in the mouth of a whale?

The lobster hunter didn't make it to the stomach but he got swallowed up in the mouth.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The ten years in question was from 2005 - 2015.  Last I knew, both 2015 and 2019 came after 2015.  I guess you didn't read my post.

You didn't say that in the post and I guess you still didn't hear of Ike 08 and Dennis 05 that rolled through the Caribbeans in that time frame. And there was Ivan in o4.

The list below shows that major hurricanes have been increasing in the last couple of decade or so.

https://www.weather.gov/mob/tropical_events

From 1979 back to 1852 there was only two hurricane seasons with two hurricanes and that was 1916 and 1901.

Today it's the norm to have multiple hurricanes each year and more towards 3 to 4 major hurricanes than 1 or 2.

On 3/24/2024 at 9:32 AM, RV_Wizard said:

The Bible also says a "great fish" swallowed Jonah.  A whale's throat is usually too small, so what swallowed Jonah? 

A lobster fisherman got swallowed by a humpback whale afew years back. He lived to tell about it.

What whale has a throat to small to swallow a human. A pilot whale I could see not being big enough.

On 3/20/2024 at 6:56 AM, RV_Wizard said:

They specifically said Florida was going to have a record number of hurricanes, not that they would be vacant from the planet.  The Caribbean was very calm for ten years after.  The point is, all their models fail.  All their predictions are hype.  While they scream about the rising seas, they fly private jets to conferences and buy up beachfront property.  The goal is to form a one world government.  It will be accomplished one day, and the Beast will be its ruler.

You should look up the information before making such statements. I guess you didn't read up on Irma 2017 or Dorian in 2019.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

 

I did make one error, though.  It was 10 years without a hurricane.

You still made an error, there are hurricanes in the NH and syclones in the SH every year. Rather or not they make landfall is another issue.

A warmer atmosphere effects global wind patterns which can cause areas to be wetter others dryer. Certainly deserts aren't going anywhere.

Earth in amorphous clear.

22 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Still an infant technology, but it shows promise.

Yes it is, solid state batteries along with a few other choices other than lithium is in the works though will take awhile to mass produce those at an affordable price.

3 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I'd work on reliability and battery life (and maybe more sustainable materials) first.

 

Most companies are, even with exotic cars. Ice cars went through the same growing pains 

12 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Average person with one of those would kill himself within a year.

 

I know right, you would have to be nuts to go 248 mph. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds got to be dangerous on the neck if your not ready for it.

Goes to show they have come along way on improving the EV technology.

7 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Catalytic converters change carbon monoxide, a gas released in the combustion process into carbon dioxide which trees need to live.  Carbon monoxide is also produced when you have a bonfire and much more so when you have a forest fire.  Yet, we don't hear people calling to clean up the old grove forests to prevent massive fires.  That wouldn't enrich the climate criminals.

So your idea is that we strip mine lithium from Afghanistan in mines owned by the Chinese to produce batteries that are environmental disasters that are recharged by burning coal and are stressing the electrical grid.  BRILLIANT!!  Not only have you drastically limited your range of motion and introduced a vehicle that barely performs in cold weather, you're polluting the earth in the name of environmentalism.

Want a better solution?  Hydrogen power using electrolysis to separate oxygen and hydrogen from water.  Zero emissions, lots of energy, no taxation of the power grid, but no money to out Chinese owned politicians.

Want to stay electric?  Use a 3 cylinder diesel engine to power a generator and feed power to electric motors at the wheels; like a train does.  No need for expensive batteries that enrich our enemies and cause cars to catch fire.  Diesel fuel is 190% as efficient as gasoline and has a much higher flash point.

The hypocrisy is that there is no desire to make a more efficient vehicle for the working man.  The desire is to pad the pockets of the elite and to continue enriching our enemies so they can fund the election campaigns of the politicians they purchase.

 

Converts 90% to a less harmful gas.

Carbon monoxide is the leading poisoning death in the United States.

Just like oil got to produce it domestically not buy it over seas.

Yeah I like hydrogen power also, 

https://www.ief.org/news/nuclear-energy-is-becoming-safer-and-more-efficient-heres-how

Though if I had the cash I would get an electric dues in 2025. 0 to 60 in 1.9 secs top speed 248 mph, 2200 hp with 1475 pounds of torque charge time 28 mins, 300 mile range. Gas cars are slow old junkers.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

There are none so foolish as those who presume to know what others do or do not know.

Now here’s the real scandal of the near trillion dollars that governments have stolen from taxpayers to fund climate change hysteria and research. By the industry’s own admission there has been almost no progress worldwide in actually combatting climate change. The latest reports by the U.S. government and the United Nations say the problem is getting worse not better and we have not delayed the apocalypse by a single day.  source

I presume that English is not your primary language, because you aren't even close to what I posted.  I will post more slowly for you.

What WILL throw the world into turmoil is the sudden disappearance of millions of people-- This is known as the Rapture, by the way.

which could literally happen any day. -- That means that all the prophesies have been fulfilled.  

In the following seven years,-- Following means afterward; after the Rapture, which could happen at any time or many years from now.

two thirds of the earth's population will die.  That's about 5.4 billion people.-- That's simple mathematics based on the current population and the percentage of people killed during the seven years of the tribulation.  See the Revelation for details.

Once more, I will post it more slowly for you.

If you're hanging with a bad crowd-- Note the word "if" at the beginning of this sentence.  Also, the "you" is collective, meaning anyone, not you in particular.

and get saved they won't want you around any more.-- That is quite simply a fact.  Jesus told us it would happen and it does.  People who are living a life of sin like to be around others living the same way.  Likewise, with the saved.

This is a quote from the source you provided below.

Big oil and natural gas companies are no different. The only thing that changes are the mask. But like the author said there is no denying fossil fuel burning is effecting the atmosphere.

"(This doesn’t mean that the planet isn’t warming.

But the tidal wave of funding does reveal a powerful financial motive for scientists to conclude that the apocalypse is upon us. No one hires a fireman if there are no fires. No one hires a climate scientist (there are thousands of them now) if there is no catastrophic change in the weather. Why doesn’t anyone in the media ever mention this?)"

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I see you still have trouble with this, so I will repeat the post verbatim.  (That means I copied and pasted it)

What WILL throw the world into turmoil is the sudden disappearance of millions of people which could literally happen any day.  In the following seven years, two thirds of the earth's population will die.  That's about 5.4 billion people.  That is a known reality, and yet, where is the warning of that?

Now, let me accent something for you.

What WILL throw the world into turmoil is the sudden disappearance of millions of people which could literally happen any day.

I didn't say the apocalypse would happen in seven years.  I said the rapture could happen in seven minutes.  The hour that Christ will come is known only to the Father; not even to the Son or the angels.  That's what Jesus told us.

In the following seven years, two thirds of the earth's population will die.  That's from the judgment of God being poured out onto the world.  That's about 5.4 billion people.  That is a known reality, and yet, where is the warning of that?

The point being made is that the climate change is just the latest fad to scare people into giving more wealth and power to a select few.  Climates change slowly over time.  That's what they do.  It isn't a threat.  Being left behind when Jesus returns is a very real threat.  That is what we should be worried about; not the threats of rising seas coming from people buying up beach front homes.

These are my actual words.  Feel free to quote them.  Just don't make up things to disagree with.  I can write things you disagree with without your editing.

Not quite 5.4 billion over 7 years. The population will grow that is a known fact today and tomorrow. here's the numbers just a couple of months so far in 2024. These are steadily increasing by the second that's reality. Around 12 million have disappeared over the last 2 1/2 months.

Births this year

27,218,092

Deaths this year

12,315,899

Population Growth this year

14,902,193

WORLD POPULATION SECTIONS. WorldO

It's habitat change, the earth could careless about the living it will react to man-made pollution spewing out into the atmosphere. In various ways that will effect your comfort, and many others including animals, crops etc.

I agree don't worry about others buying beach front property. Big fossil fuel companies do the same thing.

You know the fumes from a car are extremely toxic, who cares about driving an electric car. At least you won't be spewing out gases while you're waiting on something you may never see in your lifetime among the living.

33 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There are none so foolish as those who presume to know what others do or do not know.

Now here’s the real scandal of the near trillion dollars that governments have stolen from taxpayers to fund climate change hysteria and research. By the industry’s own admission there has been almost no progress worldwide in actually combatting climate change. The latest reports by the U.S. government and the United Nations say the problem is getting worse not better and we have not delayed the apocalypse by a single day.  source

I presume that English is not your primary language, because you aren't even close to what I posted.  I will post more slowly for you.

What WILL throw the world into turmoil is the sudden disappearance of millions of people-- This is known as the Rapture, by the way.

which could literally happen any day. -- That means that all the prophesies have been fulfilled.  

In the following seven years,-- Following means afterward; after the Rapture, which could happen at any time or many years from now.

two thirds of the earth's population will die.  That's about 5.4 billion people.-- That's simple mathematics based on the current population and the percentage of people killed during the seven years of the tribulation.  See the Revelation for details.

Once more, I will post it more slowly for you.

If you're hanging with a bad crowd-- Note the word "if" at the beginning of this sentence.  Also, the "you" is collective, meaning anyone, not you in particular.

and get saved they won't want you around any more.-- That is quite simply a fact.  Jesus told us it would happen and it does.  People who are living a life of sin like to be around others living the same way.  Likewise, with the saved.

I posted exactly what you said within 7 years the apocalypse will happen.

No those who don't have the seal and from that two thirds will perish and the rest still won't repent is what revelation says.

Posting about those who aren't saved has nothing to do with our conversation. Though I have thoughts about why you did it.

6 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The better idea is to follow the money.  That's where you'll find the science.

Read the book of the Revelation.  Before the tribulations are over, two thirds of mankind will have been wiped out.  Prior to that, Christ raptures the faithful; the mass disappearance of millions.  The earth will not be destroyed because someone drives s Suburban.  It will be destroyed because man has not obeyed his Creator.

Luke 12:52-53  For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  If you're hanging with a bad crowd and get saved they won't want you around any more.  They want to be around people who do the vile things they do.

You don't have clue about the money

Revelation says nothing about 2031, you said its a known reality in 7 years it will happen. It could be 700 years you have no discernment.

A suburban wasn't going to destroy the earth, you Love making up false statements 

Again I ask how do you know I'm hanging out with bad people and I'm not saved???? You don't know nothing about me to say off the cuff junk like that.