JoeCanada

A great explanation by the late Dr. Michael S. Heiser: Have we Translated Genesis 1 Wrong All this Time?! You Tube

Yeh some of them do…where does it say that in scripture for my reference? 2 Thes 2:3-4 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. There's also Dan 9:27... Dan 11:31... Rev 11:1,2... Matt 24:15...

Yes... good point. I think that it stems from a lack of understanding of the Cross.... the MYSTERY of the Cross. When Jesus said "I'm going up to Jerusalem and the Son of Man is going to be crucified"... Peter said "Not so"..... Then Jesus rebuked Peter and said to him..."Get behind me Satan"...."you don't know the spirit that you're of".....(my paraphrasing) Much of the church has forgotten Jesus' teachings. They want a "feel good" sermon and an "atta boy" slap on the back. "Nope.... don't want any of this....I'm going in a pre-trib rapture" Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me."

Yes.... they want religion. They don't want Jesus.

The coming Messiah..... True or False Messiah?...... or both? Scripture teaches us that there will be a coming Messiah..... both a true Messiah and a false messiah. It is the false messiah that will be the focus of this post. The big question is HOW is this false messiah, the antichrist, the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, the wicked one....... going to deceive churchgoers, Jews and maybe even some Christians, that he is their true messiah, that he is God and that he will give them what they're looking for. And what Israel has wanted for 2,000 years is another temple. Jews believe that the coming Messiah will build their Third Temple. Well, they are correct. Jesus will build the temple at the start of the millennium. But the one coming first will be the deceiver, the false Messiah...... and...... Satan's man Antichrist (the false Messiah) will give them exactly what they want...... the Third Temple..... and they will be totally fooled. 2 Thes 2: " the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all powers and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness...." " God will send upon them a strong deluding influence so that they may believe what is false" This will be deception "el grande". The grand-daddy of all time deception. Satan is going to go "full on" because "he knows his time is short". Now I know what many Christians will say. This just isn't going to happen because the Antichrist isn't going to sit in a rebuilt temple. Instead he is going to sit in the hearts and minds of Christians as per Paul's teaching in 2 Thes 2:4 and 1 Cor 3:16: " so that he takes his seat in the temple of God" " Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" Satan will reside in the hearts and minds of Christians???????????????? NEVER! That is an impossibility. Whoever says this is completely wrong. Period! Why? Satan is not omnipresent. Only God is. Also.... if Satan were to sit in the hearts and minds of Christians, that would present a salvation issue, a lack of salvation.... because the Holy Spirit for believers is there right now. And God will not share a place in out hearts with Satan, or anyone else for that matter. "How can any one enter the strong mans house and carry off his property unless he first binds the strong And then he will plunder his house"......... Mat 12:29 Satan cannot bind the Holy Spirit. That also is impossible. It is true that when Jesus was crucified, the Temple curtain was torn in two. There is no longer a need for another temple built by human hands for the purpose of a blood sacrifice to take away sins. Jesus completely took care of that. He was the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"....John 1:29 But the Jews never accepted Jesus, nor His sacrifice. They still carried on sacrificing even well beyond the destruction of the second temple. THEY want another temple. And according to scripture, they will have one. I've heard Christians say that it will take too long to build a third temple. Really. Have you ever seen Jehovah's Witnesses build their church? I have. In the town I was living, about five lots down, they raised a church. It only took about 4 days. Incredible. They also do not need a temple to resume the daily sacrifice and offering..... did you know that? Also.... just to be clear. These sacrifices are not efficacious, they will not take away sins. It has nothing to do with believers. This is something that the Temple Institute feels that it has to accomplish. If we look at Zech 6:12-13 .....we see that it it the Lord Jesus, who is called the Branch, that will build the Temple in His millennium reign. So the One who is coming will deceive the Jews into believing HE is the Messiah. And he will have all sorts of special powers to prove himself. "If anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or there He is.... do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead if possible................. even the elect".................... Matt 24:23 - 25

Ok... So I think what you are saying is, "pagan Rome", when it is completely "no more", is then replaced by "papal Rome", sometime around 467 (you maybe meant 476). The Christian Church will then replace it (pagan Rome) and these "people" will now serve under the "prince" who is the little horn. So the Christian Church is "papal Rome"? Is this correct?

Who then, is this "prince" that will rule over the people who would destroy Israel. Do you mean Jerusalem?

Charlie.... This is a rather "strong" statement. Are you referring to "national Israel"?..... Those unrepentant Jews?..... The Pharisees?...... Certainly God will never turn away a repentant sinner, whether Jew or Gentile. All have access to the Throne. ?????

Hi Charlie, The "prince to come" is an angelic being.... (demonic) We know this from the angel Gabriel's words to Daniel: "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."...Dan 10:13 "Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come."...Dan 10:20 "“However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince."....Dan 10:21 Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come.....ie: "the prince to come". We know from history that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers.....in Roman uniform..... in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. The two main legions that set fire to the temple were the Legio X Fretensis and Legio X11 Fulminata. The soldiers in these Legions were Syrians and Arabs. The Syrian Legion X11 Fulminata had an intense hatred for the Jews especially after their humiliating defeat at the Battle of Beth Horon in AD 66.............. they were looking for revenge. So.... NO.......... the people of the prince who is to come do not represent the Roman people. The people of the prince who is to come, those who destroyed the temple, represent the Arab people.....Syrians.

Maybe he is. He is only one among many. He may have talked about it, but there is one in office that openly does it..... against women and children. It sounds like you are suggesting that this 'despicable man' that you name will take over "the kingdom." Which kingdom will he take over?

I agree. However, Hebrew does have antecedents and pronouns like English, so we shouldn't just wave the hand and discount a passage where rules of grammar conflict with our understanding. But.... we can look at Daniel 9:24-27 in a Chiasmus (chiastic structure). The outside A + A' panels are parallel to one another. They suggest that the two accounts are plainly two different accounts, but are related to one another. And indeed they are. They contrast God's plan to establish Christ's Kingdom in Israel at the end of a 490 year period in verse 24.... with Satan's counterfeit plan to establish the Beast's kingdom in Israel within a seven year period at the end of Israel's history in verse 27. Note the first marker set "weeks" where "seventy weeks" echoes "week" but it is referring to the seventieth one..... A + A' The second marker set (B + B') shows when God announced making "reconciliation for iniquity", which would be thru Christ and put an end to sacrifice.... it was perverted by Satan and his Antichrist by only putting "an end to sacrifice and offering". The sacrifice is simply ended. The third marker set (C) is God saying His people Israel would "anoint" the Most Holy..... but Antichrist did the opposite of anointing or consecrating by making his temple desolate. These parallel structures of the markers in Dan 9:24 and 9:27 seems to show how "hell" would try to foil God's plan at the last minute (the 70th week).....that Satan would make his own decree replacing God's determination in verse 24, and would establish his own kingdom by making Jerusalem, God's Holy City, desolate. The arrangement of these two verses suggests one reason why the 70th week (with tribulation et all) must occur is to allow Satan to counterfeit God's plan and lead many astray. The B + B' converge towards the center of the passage.... and since they are converging, they are both part of the same course of events. This is appropriate, since the outer A + A' panels give a summary of the prophecy, and the narrative of the seventieth week itself. However, the inner B+B' panels are different, they give an account of Israel's history from the sixth century BC to 70 AD. The central message, though, is reserved for panel C only to highlight the very central thought of all of the seventy-weeks prophecy and therefore of Hebrew Daniel. The central panel C is the arrival of Christ the first time and how He was received. The B+B' panels frame the central panel. The B panel tells us of events prior to Messiah's coming, including the Jewish people getting ready which includes the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The B' panel, which shows events after Messiah, shows Jerusalem being destroyed. Panel B talks about Messiah the Prince and in the second panel B' speaks of the people of the prince who is to come, ie. the antichrist. Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come. This was fulfilled in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers in Roman uniform in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. Rome tried to stop them from burning down the temple. The most inward markers contrast the building Jerusalem versus destroying Jerusalem. Therefore the main themes of the B+B' panels are a ruling prince....Christ or Antichrist.... and the city itself to be ruled, either being built up or torn down. The central message for the entire seventy-weeks prophecy contained in panel C is that Jesus Christ will be rejected by Israel at a specific time and cut off so He does not rule Israel. Therefore, the B+B' panels are arranged in perfect converging structure to highlight the making ready prior to Messiah's first arrival, and the destruction to occur after Messiah is rejected. Contrast the central message of Hebrew Daniel: "And after sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, but not for Himself" with that of Aramaic Daniel in 4:37 shows a great contrast: "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of Heaven, because everything He does is right and all His ways are just. And those who walk in pride He is able to humble" What stunning contrast! Daniel 9:24-27 basically says that the Jewish nation will reject their Messiah and have Him crucified. As it says in John 1:11 "He came to His own and His own did not receive Him" The Aramaic side of Daniel, in which gentiles are the audience, we see the most powerful gentile king praising God and extoling and honoring Him. Though Nebuchadnezzar lived 5 centuries before Christ, the king's testimony is for all gentiles since the message of Aramaic Daniel applies even to the end times as Daniel 7 testifies. ------------------- Chronicles of the end times.... Mark Davidson

I have to disagree with you on this Charlie. Let's look at Daniel 9:26: And the first part of 9:27: "And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week" So the "he" in 9:27 is a pronoun..... and the closest antecedent before it is in 9:26..... "the people of the prince who is to come" And you have identified that the "prince who is to come" is the "little horn" Then in 9:27..... " he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering" The "he" is a pronoun and the antecedent is once again the "prince who is to come" Had the scripture instead read "and after the sixty-two weeks, Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself, and the people shall destroy the city and sanctuary..." ...... then yes, the next few "he's" would refer back to the Messiah. But because another character is introduced, ie "the prince who is to come".... you would need an antecedent to clarify who it is that is being talked about.

Yes... so true. They would watch some reality TV show or a movie..... but read an article?.....Nah! Tic Tok ..... Tic Tok..... Tic Tok...... that's where its at today. Stimulation for the mind! Bill Gates was said to have said to "cut down 70 million acres of trees in order to fight climate change" (whether true or not) Trees eat carbon dioxide and release oxygen. You're right, it is completely absurd. Climate changes in cycles. El Nino and La Nina for example. Was there climate change in the dust bowl of the 1930's?.... Well nobody attributed that climate change to anything. It was natural. ---------------------------- I have for years been telling my friends and family members and warning them of the dangers that I see coming upon the world. Their response: "Oh Joe, you're just a conspiracy nut.................. You read too much.................. Where did you learn that from, the computer.......... Oh uncle..... oh dad........ oh brother....... etc etc. A very few have listened. One day they will look back and say...."you know, I think he was right"

This is gold tatwo. "this is so humanity can interact directly with the Father…spirit to Spirit" Scripture tells us that God is Spirit...... That God is invisible....His attributes are invisible.... His creation is both visible and invisible... (Col 1:15 and 1:16...Rom 1:20...1Tim 1:17) He is way beyond my (our) comprehension in every way. If I dedicated all my days to writing about the attributes of God, I would still never be able to describe them all. Omnipotent............ Omniscient.......... Omnipresent.......... Omnibenevolent There were many nights when I would lay in bed pondering God. Then I would say the Lord's prayer.... "Our Father" ....and that's as far as I got. In my thoughts I would try and understand what that really meant...."Our Father"...... and I would fall asleep with thoughts of Him. Night after night was the same....for many months. "From eternity past" ..... ya, that doesn't compute. It's too much for my tiny mind to grasp. "The invisible God" ...... pretty much the same.... does not compute. But I believe it.

Charlie.... John records Jesus' ministry..... from His baptism to His crucifixion. John records Jesus attending only 3 Passovers.... and 3 other Feasts. Where are the scriptures to support Jesus attending 4 Passovers? What about scripture to support Jesus' baptism to His first Passover being 6 months? With all due respect brother, I see your explanation as conjecture, without scriptural evidence, trying to support a theory. And as Mr. M stated.... there is also support for a one year (+-) ministry. But a 3 1/2 year ministry is what is generally held by the vast majority (99%) of people, and I reckon you don't buy into what the vast majority of people believe.

Yes I have read many commentaries about Jesus' ministry being only about a year long. Could very well be. The thing is that we aren't told how long Jesus ministered for. John's gospel seems to be the closest chronology. I just don't buy the 3-4 year ministry.

Ok. So what are you saying about the length of time of Jesus' ministry? Is it less than 2 years....more than 2 years? I'm still not sure of the point you are making. Sorry.

True enough. If we read John 1 and 2, we see a time frame of what?... maybe a few weeks, lets say a few months before the first Passover. That's still only 2 years and a bit, not even close to the generally accepted 3 1/2 years..... which many people need to support their Daniel 9 theory for instance. Of the 4 gospels, John's is the only one that gives us the timeline..... from the first Passover (there about) to the final third Passover. And does it really matter? Well, it's like the crucifixion on a Friday and the resurrection on a Sunday. Jesus said He would be in the heart of the earth just like Jonah was in the belly of the great whale for 3 days and 3 nights. Friday to Sunday just doesn't add up. But that's for another topic. Thanks for your dialogue.

Yes.... three Passovers are recorded in Johns Gospel. That could easily be two years as is shown in the OP. First Passover to the second Passover is ONE year..... second Passover to the third Passover is another year. Two years in total.

I don't see this as being relevant. You do?

So Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist in Matt 3.... then He was led into the desert for 40 days, after which Satan tempted Him. For how long was the temptation we aren't told, but I would surmise it was for a few days maybe. Then Jesus went back to Galillee from where He came. This is just a small narrative that could easily fit into the 2 or so years that John records as to the length of Jesus' ministry. But I have a feeling this is not what you were looking for is it?

How long was Jesus's ministry...... and does it matter? There seems to be some dispute in the four gospels as to the timing of Jesus's ministry. John shows Jesus attending 3 feasts of Passover. Matthew, Luke and Mark shows only one. Many have stated that Jesus's ministry lasted exactly 3 1/2 years. Here are the three Passovers mentioned by John: Passover #1 - John 2:13 - at the beginning of Jesus's ministry Passover #2 - John 6:4 Passover #3 - John 11:55 - at the crucifixion. John carefully and clearly identifies each of them as Passovers, so there is no doubt that they are specifically Passovers. These are all the feasts mentioned in the Gospel of John: 1st Passover - John 2:23 - April Purim - John 5:1 - March 2nd Passover - John 6:4 - April Tabernacles - John 7:2 - October Dedication/Hanukkah - John 10:22 - December 3rd Passover - John 11:55 - April So from the first Passover which is at the beginning of Jesus' ministry, to the 2nd Passover.... is ONE year. And from the 2nd Passover to the 3rd Passover which is the Crucifixion, is ONE year. Add them up..... one year plus one year is TWO years. Because of the detailed writing in John's Gospel as opposed to the synoptic gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, the public ministry of Jesus could not be as short as one year, nor could it be as long as 3 1/2 years. But the timing of His ministry is most likely about 2 years....give or take. Does it matter? Maybe it does to a person's interpretation of other scriptures and their whole end-time theory..... and they have to have exactly 3 1/2 years to make everything fit..............................

Sure.... why wouldn't there be. Jesus said that "in My Fathers house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go and prepare a place for you.".......John 14:2 A dwelling is a shelter where people live. Where people live they eat, sleep, use facilities such as bathrooms, they do laundry. Jesus, after He was resurrected, ate fish with His disciples. Yet He was in a spiritual body. Jesus said that He will prepare a banquet with the choicest meats and the finest wines. Whether or not this will be in a hall of some sort or out in the open remains to be seen. TV's.... very doubtful. Bicycles.... maybe for the children. But for the adults...... Cosmic bikes..... oh yeah. Build me a cosmic Harley..... no wheels, just jets. Wahoooo! Let your imagination run wild. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for us in the New World.

Hi Charlie, In my search I came across this article and found it very interesting, especially as this discussion is about potters clay and iron. Here is a clip: Types of Clay for Pottery - The Main Clay Types There are several slightly different types of clay used for different types of pottery, but clay can be classified into 6 main types that are used commonly among potters. Here, we take a look at the main clay types specifically used for pottery. The 6 main types of clay are earthenware clay, stoneware clay, ball clay, fire clay, porcelain clay, and air dry clay. What is earthenware clay? This clay is perhaps the most common type of clay. Earthenware clay has been used by potters throughout history and is probably the earliest form of clay to be used. This type of clay is very sticky, has high plasticity and so it is easy to manipulate and work with. This type of clay is primarily composed of iron and a few other mineral impurities, which is what lends itself to the clay's unique properties. Earthenware clay has a composition of iron, and a few other mineral impurities, which work to give it its unique properties. This perfect blend of mineral impurities and iron go a long way to alter the physical properties of the clay. “In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with common clay. Potters clay is earthenware clay which is primarily composed of iron. Very very interesting!

Hi Charlie, How...... ( no this is not an Indian greeting....lol ) Please tell me or show me.....HOW do you get this from Daniel? Without any NT sourcing.... Without looking thru history books.... Where in the Book of Daniel will I find this?