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Da Puppers

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  1. Isa 66. When does the woman travail? *[[Rev 12:4]] KJV* And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. The same time as when Satan is cast out of heaven. Your right about the body of Christ being caught up to heaven when the woman gives birth. That is the rapture of the church. And when ous that? *[[Mat 24:29]] KJV* Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: This is 1260 days before the end, during the time of the great tribulation: *[[Mar 13:24]] KJV* But in those days, [Mar 13:19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.] ...after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Those days refers to when God pours his wrath upon THIS PEOPLE AND THIS LAND. God has not promised to remove his people from his fiery wrath: *[[Eze 5:4]] KJV* Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into ALL the house of Israel. Eze 24:1-14 KJV Again in the ninth year, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day. And utter a parable unto the rebellious house, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Set on a pot, set it on, and also pour water into it: Gather the pieces thereof into it, even every good piece, the thigh, and the shoulder; fill it with the choice bones. Take the choice of the flock, and burn also the bones under it, and make it boil well, and let them seethe the bones of it therein. Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city, to the pot whose scum is therein, and whose scum is not gone out of it! bring it out piece by piece; let no lot fall upon it. For her blood is in the midst of her; she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it not upon the ground, to cover it with dust; That it might cause fury to come up to take vengeance; I have set her blood upon the top of a rock, that it should not be covered. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city! I will even make the pile for fire great. Heap on wood, kindle the fire, consume the flesh, and spice it well, and let the bones be burned. Then set it empty upon the coals thereof, that the brass of it may be hot, and may burn, and that the filthiness of it may be molten in it, that the scum of it may be consumed. She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire. In thy filthiness is lewdness: because I have purged thee, and thou wast not purged, thou shalt not be purged from thy filthiness any more, till I have caused my fury to rest upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD. Blessings The PuP
  2. Wrath... Anger or fury (by God) that is directed at another. When one man, or God, directs his anger at another(others), that anger affects others but is not directed at others. No question, God's wrath will affect the whole earth (Jer 25:29) but directed and affected are not the same thing. Wrath is the directed anger. Tribulation is the resulting anger of those affected. *[[Rom 2:5]] KJV* But after thy hardness and impenitent heart TREASUREST UP UNTO THYSELF WRATH against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: *[[Rom 2:9]] KJV* Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; The wrath of man (NOT THE WRATH OF GOD) in the form of tribulation and anguish comes as the EFFECT of God's wrath. Is that "anguish" and "tribulation" what God is dishing out or man's response to his wrath? Blessings The PuP
  3. What is wrong with knowing the times and seasons? To say that that Olivet Discourse is only for the Jews, is to say that God gives that knowledge to the unrighteous, unrepentant Jew but not to the redeemed church. Jesus said (In the parable of the sower) that tribulation will remove those from the kingdom of heaven those having stony (hard)hearts. And Paul said, tribulation works patience (hupomone)... makes one not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I.e., fiery trials (tribulations) removes the tares (first) from the kingdom of heaven (the word sown in the field of the whole world) and then, the good seed are gathered into his barn, the kingdom of God over which Jesus shall reign: *[[2Ti 4:1]] KJV* I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Blessings The PuP
  4. I was typing when it came through. Your premise that when God brings his wrath, that it comes upon the whole world is not true. *[[Jer 25:29]] KJV* For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. *[[Luk 21:23]] KJV* But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. The wrath of God is specifically directed at the people and land of Israel. They, the children of Israel, will soon be gathered to the land for judgment. Paul said that (referring to the Jews) he that sins in the law shall be judged by the law. The Jews continue to this day to blaspheme the name of God: *[[Rom 2:24]] KJV* For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. And God's wrath will first be revealed against them because they hold to the truth(claiming to know the righteousness of God) in unrighteousness, because they were presented the gospel of Jesus first, and rejected it. *[[Rom 1:16]] KJV* For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Blessings The PuP
  5. Sure it is. We, the church, are the participants, not the left behind eye witnesses to the rapture. But Jesus (and Paul's) admonition to watch and be sober, concerns all of the events that precedes the rapture and therefore concerns the church. The wrath of God during the times of great tribulation is God's wrath upon the people and land of Israel, not the church. *[[Luk 21:23]] KJV* But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. Blessings The PuP
  6. *[[1Co 10:11]] KJV* Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*[[1Co 10:12]] KJV* Wherefore let him that thinketh he STANDETH[G5281, hupomone] take heed lest he fall.*[[1Co 10:13]] KJV* There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Paul's admonition: *[[1Th 5:5]] KJV* Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. To watch and be sober, is essentially the same as what Jesus said concerning these things: *[[Luk 21:34]] KJV* And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. All of these things that we are told to watch and be sober (NOT having a drunken headache, surfeiting) about, includes wrath, God's wrath upon this people and this land of Israel. Matt 24, Mark 13 specifically identify this as the time of great tribulation. *[[1Pe 4:12]] KJV* Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. Your view of that day of fiery trial, wrath upon the Jews, is that it is a strange fiery trial that won't happen to you. Peter and Paul are both telling you that it will happen as part of the righteous judgment of God. Blessings The PuP
  7. Who are the following verses addressed to? *[[Eph 6:10/KJV]]* Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the EVIL DAY and having done all, to stand. These are addressed to "my brethren". Next question: What is the evil day [for which the brethren need the whole armor of God] necessary to "withstand" and "stand"? WITHSTAND - G436 Original: ἀνθίστημι Transliteration: anthistēmi Phonetic: anth-is'-tay-mee Thayer Definition: to set one's self against, to withstand, resist, opposeto set against STAND - G2476 G2476 Original: ἵστημι Transliteration: histēmi Phonetic: his'-tay-mee Thayer Definition: 1.to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set A. to bid to stand by, [set up] 1. in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin 2. to place B. to make firm, fix establish 1. to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place 2. To stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety They have the same root word, histemi, which takes us back to Luke 21. But let's look at things in context. *[[Luk 21:34-36]] KJV* And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [35] For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [36] WATCH ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. The admonition against drunkenness, [Its aftereffects of] surfeiting, and the cares of this life, are so that the snare that is to come upon ALL THEM ON THE EARTH, may not come upon them unawares [like a thief]. The signs that are given in the Olivet Discourse, are for them to WATCH for those signs to come. Soberness is the opposite of surfeiting. That is the exact command of Paul in 1 Thess 5... watch and be sober... so THAT DAY does not come like a thief upon them... upon the whole world! G2476, histemi, means to remain in place. To be removed and avoid these things [via the rapture] is of a totally opposite meaning. Another important word in that verse is "accounted worthy", G2661: h1. G2661 Original: *καταξιόω* Transliteration: *kataxioō* Phonetic: *kat-ax-ee-o'-o* *Thayer Definition*: # to account worthy, judge worthy Origin: from [[d 2596]] and [[d 515]] TDNT entry: 07:20,6 Part(s) of speech: Verb *Strong's Definition*: From [[G2596]] and [[G515]]; to _deem entirely deserving:_ - (ac-) count worthy. This is the same found in v.5 here: *[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: [5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be COUNTED WORTHY of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: [6] Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, Do you see the context of things? When it comes time to receive/ inherit the KOG, we will be called upon to have the same faith/ patience thru persecutions and tribulations that Paul was enduring. [He endured alot]. He said that this is the righteous judgment of God. We are have patience [G5281, hupomone] at the time that we are deemed worthy of the kingdom. This has nothing to do with grace, but is about enduring immovable faith. G5281, hupomone, means to not be moved away [swerved] from our faith by the greatest trials and suffering "in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings". That comes straight out of Strongs concordance. Having "patience or patient continuance" is deemed the righteous judgment of God. Those two phrase are also found together here: *[[Rom 2:5]] KJV* But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the DAY OF WRATH AND REVELATION of the righteous judgment of God; [6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: [7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: The righteous judgment of God includes both wrath [upon the Jews first] and revelation. The Revelation of Jesus can only follow the wrath of God upon the Jews, because: 1. We are the ones seeking for glory, honor, and immortality, 2. In which we are called to have patient continuance [enduring the greatest trials and sufferings] in our faith, 3. Wrath upon the Jews is singularly separated from wrath upon the Gentiles afterwards: "*[[Rom 2:8]] KJV* But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;" God's wrath is not haphazardly appointed to come upon the whole world. We, the church, are not included in "the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God" . We are not appointed to wrath. *[[Luk 21:23]] KJV* But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in THE LAND [of Judea] , and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE [the Jews] . The wrath of God, will come upon the Jew first because: *[[Rom 1:16]] KJV* For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; But we are and will be expected to have patient continuance[G5281, hupomone] of our faith, being found worthy of the kingdom of God, when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his holy angels taking vengeance on them that know not God, firstly upon the Jews. Blessings The PuP
  8. Da Puppers

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    Do you understand what the righteous judgment of God involves? It will be revealed in the day of his wrath: *[[Rom 2:5]] KJV* But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;*[[Rom 2:6]] KJV* Who will render to every man according to his deeds:*[[Rom 2:7]] KJV* To them who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: We are called to have patient continuance in that day. The same is said here: *[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your PATIENCE and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:*[[2Th 1:5]] KJV* Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: So what is patient continuance? The Greek word is hupomone; h1. G5281 Original: *ὑπομονή* Transliteration: *hupomonē* Phonetic: *hoop-om-on-ay'* *Thayer Definition*: 1. steadfastness, constancy, endurance A. in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings B. patiently, and steadfastly 2. a patient, steadfast waiting for 3. a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance Origin: from [[d 5278]] TDNT entry: 13:41,6 Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine *Strong's Definition*: From [[G5278]]; cheerful (or hopeful) _endurance, constancy:_ - enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting). Did you notice the definition in 1A? ... not swerved from his faith... even by the greatest trials and sufferings... TO BE REVEALED IN THE DAY OF WRATH...The righteous judgment of God. We are not called to partake of the wrath of God, but we are called to continue patiently when he pours his wrath of others, namely, the Jews: *[[Rom 2:8b,9]] KJV* ... indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; *[[Mar 14:38]] KJV* Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak. The disciples were spiritually ready, but physically/ emotionally weak to endure the trial of their faith. Blessings The PuP
  9. Da Puppers

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    Coming like a thief means that it will unexpected for those who are not prepared. It is not the when for which no man knows the day (Jesus told us what to watch for), but it is the what that no man knows that day & hour. Being ready, preparing the vessel of your house, your soul, involves more than just knowing what to watch for. Not expecting to be here on that day, means that you are not watching and ultimately not preparing your heart for that day. *[[Luk 21:36]] KJV* Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. The word "stand" means to be unmoved in your faith. It is of complete contrast to being removed from where you are at. Blessings The PuP
  10. Da Puppers

    Flesh in the millennium

    *[[Rom 8:22]] KJV* For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. *[[Phi 3:21]] KJV* Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Flesh and bone body powered by the spirit of God. *[[Eph 2:22]] KJV* In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Blessings The PuP
  11. Da Puppers

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    It was not the unexpectedness of the flood that the people of Noah's day did not know. It was the severity of the judgment (we never seen rain before) that they knew not. Likewise, shall the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, not be known by that generation until it be upon them on a day unparalleled in history. *[[Jer 30:7]] KJV* Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Blessings The PuP
  12. Da Puppers

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    *[[Mat 24:43]] KJV* But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Have you noticed that this question is NOT worded in beforehand terminology, but terminology that is after the fact. 1. If he HAD KNOWN... 2. He WOULD HAVE watched, 3. He would not HAVE SUFFERED... Jesus said that if he HAD KNOWN, that he would have WATCHED. So now notice the context of what he says before and after this verse: BEFORE, *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. AFTER, *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. The command to be ready, follows after the command to watch. [I'll give you my main point shortly]. For starters, Jesus assures us of the need to watch. But by saying "be ye ready ALSO", he is saying that watching, in and of itself, is not enough to be ready for his coming. Verse 43 is then assuring us that his coming will be like a thief. [He is talking about his coming for us]. He is assuring us that the thief is coming. Paul warned us not to be caught sleeping when Jesus comes. So, to be ready for the thief, does not mean to just be looking for him. You have to make some preparations so that he doesn't steal something that is not being guarded or watched. Let me now get to my point. Jesus said that no man "knows" that day and hour but the Father, not even the SON. I think that we ca conclude that the Father "knows", when that day and hour will take place. If it was simply a matter of when, Jesus would know too. And he does know when, it is the "what" that remains a mystery to all of mankind, even to John the revelator. Notice how little is revealed by John when the 6th seal is opened. When Jesus says that "no man knows that day", the word know is eido, h1492, meaning to perceive. Look at what that verse follows: *[[Mat 24:35]] KJV* Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. *[[Mat 24:36]] KJV* But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. The when of that day has been set and the time is known by the son. Otherwise, Jesus could not tell of the signs that are to precede that day. It is the "what terrible things will happen on that day" that no man knows will take place on that day & hour. Jesus told us WHAT to watch for, but even with that said, "be ye ready ALSO! ". It wasn't the when that people did not know on that day. It was the what. Need I refer you to the scriptures that day that until that time, it had NEVER rained upon the earth? Need i remind you that God shut the door 7 days before it began to rain? Look what it says about the days of Noah: *[[Mat 24:39]] KJV* And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. What was lacking in their knowledge (knowing) was not the when, (at the time when God shut the door,) but it was the WHAT that came from the flood itself. "And knew not until the flood came..." The people of Noah's day, knew the when, they just didn't know the what. It is not the when that concerns Jesus's exhortation to be ready, it is the what. No man knows WHAT that day will be like. The son of man is not coming when you think and in the circumstances that you think he is coming: Jesus told us what signs to watch for concerning the when he is coming, so that we might prepare ourselves for the unknown WHAT about his coming, and how bad it will be because no man knows what that day will be like. *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Blessings The PuP
  13. Da Puppers

    September 23, 2017

    Your ability to objectively analyze things is lacking because you think that you understand when you don't. The more passionate you are about something, in this case prophecy, the more difficult to be objective and even more difficult to acknowledge error. You are very passionate... agreed. With foundational errors and beliefs, come a compounding of errors. The principal foundation in all of scripture is faith. Believing withOUT the evidence sitting in front IS WHAT CONSTITUTES FAITH. Many prophecies in scripture are mistakenly identified as historically fulfilled. Most, very nearly all, theological overviews [the big picture] do not have room for these prophetical anomalies, and so resign them to history. I have written on these things recently, but I would ask you, examine chapters 5-7 of Ezekiel, and tell me if you see any difference. The phrase "no man knows the day" exemplifies the rule of faith.. It boils down to serving God by one of two ways... fear or love. Perfect love casts out fear. Prefect love is perfect faith. One of the greatest challenges to your faith, is to love him unconditionally in the midst of knowing that his return is NOT imminent. Expecting the unexpected, stills means it is unexpected. This is a foundational premise of pretrib. It actually encourages people to serve God out of fear, because they don't know when he is coming. [I don't either, but i know without question that it is not imminent]. God wants us to serve him out of perfect love... With no fear. Not knowing when he is coming, does not mean that we cannot be certain of the times that we know that he is not coming. That is the Olivet Discourse. The signs that precede his coming. His return is NOT a sign. Signs precede his return. And when the last sign happens, then will his return truly be imminent. Go ahead. I dare you to love him with perfect love. Blessings The PuP
  14. Da Puppers

    September 23, 2017

    You just don't get it. I didn't say the seals were about gathering. I didn't even say when the seals would be open [at this time next year]. No, i gave you scriptural basis for seals from Ezekiel. You reject them as being history. You are blinded by your conceit. Blessings The PuP
  15. Da Puppers

    September 23, 2017

    Concerning how i arrived at the date that i presented, I did not answer. But it involves understanding that the seals do not involve a past historical fulfilment. To attempt to explain them to you, with your view of them, would be an exercise in futility. I would just say that that will be the beginning of gathering the children of Israel, Jews and members of all 10 "lost" tribes to Jerusalem for judgment. It's not that judgment, just the initiation of the gathering. As we get closer to their judgment day, my prayer is that you will see things in proper perspective. Blessings The PuP
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