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Da Puppers

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  1. *[[1Th 5:3]] KJV* For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. Any doctrine is possible, if you change what the scripture says. Sudden destruction is what comes suddenly, not the rapture. Jesus said, Verse list: Luk 21:28-35 KJV And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them [Jesus spoke this to them, his disciples, the soon to be leaders of the church, the kingdom of heaven] a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, YE SEE and know of YOUR own SELVES that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise YE , when YE see these things come to pass, know YE that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Jesus spoke this parable to them AND he interpreted its meaning. What did he say? THIS GENERATION [upon whom(the elect) all these things shall come to pass] will experience ALL these things and will not perish from whom they are, the Lord's elect. On top of that, Jesus said, nigh at hand. I.e., near would be: 1. Your redemption, AND 2. The kingdom of God. He is not talking about some of those things in the Olivet Discourse, but he said that our redemption would only be NEAR AT HAND. That means that the imminent nearness of our redemption and the kingdom, could not be true until YOU see all of these things having taken place. If any of them is "yet to be" then imminency is not in the picture. This is why that no man knows the day. Your definition of imminency is correct, but it won't be until all these things that Jesus told his disciples about, have ALL happened, that there will be nothing that has to happen before his kingdom and our redemption will then be nigh at hand. Blessings The PuP
  2. Applying "this generation", *[[Mat 24:34]] KJV* Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. *[[Luk 21:32]] KJV* Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. To anyone living at that time (Jew, Gentile, or whoever), would make Jesus's words totally irrelevant for the generation that shall see and experience all these things coming upon them. Consider the following: *[[Mat 4:17]] KJV* From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Jesus said that it was at hand", and not that it was here. The kingdom of the apostles (of heaven) arrived the moment Jesus ascended into heaven. *[[Act 1:6]] KJV* When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Blessings The PuP
  3. Sorry, but the Olivet Discourse found in Matthew & Luke says that out was for them: Verse list: Luk 21:28-31 KJV And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he SPAKE to THEM a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, YE see and know of YOUR OWN SELVES that summer is now nigh at hand. So LIKEWISE YE, when YE see these things come to pass, know ye that the KINGDOM of GOD is NIGH at hand. Verse list: Mat 24:32-34 KJV Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when YE shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, till all these things be fulfilled. "This generation" is the elect, and Jesus is alluding back to God shortening the days FOR THE ELECTS SAKE. YE shall see all these things. The "YE" was focused directly at them... his followers! Blessings The PuP
  4. I agreed with you about who is the elect... Israel. But they are the basis for God's reprieve in shortening the days (because of the promises that God has made to them). But it has nothing to do with whether the church is here or not. That is strictly an external tenet of pretrib beliefs. There is no mention of any body leaving or being gathered until later on in the text of Matt 24. Blessings The PuP
  5. Where's your logic? You have the covenant confirmed BEFORE it is even made: *[[Mat 26:28]] KJV* For this is my blood of the new testament(covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Blessings The PuP
  6. The scriptures disagree with your assessment of WHO the kingdom of heaven pertains to. It is the kingdom of God that constitutes the rule and reign of Christ on earth and not the kingdom of heaven. The NT is replete with declaring that no one unrighteous shall inherit the kingdom of God. The overarching theme of Matthews kingdom of heaven and Luke's kingdom of the apostles (Luke 22:29) is the presence of good and evil in the absence of the king/ ruler/groom. From the parable of the sower, where the subjects of the parable are "anyone that hears the word of the kingdom"... *[[Mat 13:19]] KJV* When ANY ONE heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. To Peter being given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, *[[Mat 16:18]] KJV* And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. *19* And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Unto the parables of the virgins and talents... *[[Mat 25:1]] KJV* Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. *[[Mat 25:14]] KJV* For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. It's all about the rule and reign of God in the church in the absence of Christ the king until his physical return unto this earth. Verse list: Luk 22:16-18 KJVFor I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. It all adds up to the appearing and coming of Christ being preceded by the separation of those deemed righteous and worthy of the (righteous) judgment of God... *[[2Th 1:5]] KJV* Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: *[[Rom 2:5]] KJV* But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; *[[Rom 8:18]]* For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. *[[2Co 1:5]]* For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. *[[2Co 1:6]]* And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. *[[2Co 1:7]]* And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation. *[[Phi 3:10]]* That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; *[[Col 1:24]]* Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: *[[1Th 3:3]]* That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. *[[Heb 2:10]]* For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. *[[1Co 10:13]] KJV* There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to ESCAPE, that ye may be ABLE to BEAR IT. Did you see what it says about OUR ESCAPE? So that YOU can bear it. That hardly looks like an escape plan. Just because the world is given a reprieve for the sake of the elect... *[[Mat 24:22]] KJV* And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. ... In no way implies that the elect is the church nor does it imply that the church is not here. It only states that the elect is here at that time. More than anything, it implies that the church IS still here because the rapture will save some who "are alive and remain". Your view that anything other than a pretrib rapture of the church would be a downgrade, is in fact a downgrade to the righteous rule and reign of God over his faithful ones, his body. Blessings The PuP
  7. Jesus made 2 principal statements in regards to the actual return of himself for the church. They are: 1. Watch, and 2. Be ready ALSO. In regards to watching, Jesus said, "for you know not the hour (or the day)". In regards to being ready, Jesus said, "for the son of man comes at an hour that you think not". These two corolarries to watching and being ready are not just a writer's preference of word but are uniquely associated to each exhortation. Verse list: Mat 24:42 KJV Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Mat 24:44 KJV Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Mat 25:13 KJV Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. Mar 13:33 KJV Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. Mar 13:35 KJV Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Luk 12:40 KJV Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. Jesus's precaution against not watching concerns the actual time of his return... him coming when you are not watching. All of the circumstances that will surround his actual return have not been revealed. But many signs of his return have been revealed. Recognizing those signs are important to being found watching when he actually does return. The need to be ready applies to the time when there are no more signs to be fulfilled and his return is truly imminent. This attitude is exemplified in the theology of pre-trib, in the doctrine of imminency. But the need to watch is a disregarded aspect of their theology. The result is an insufficient preparedness, essentially they are not watching, and this is the moral of the parable of the 10 virgins. So what is it that constituted them (in the parable) to not be watching. We have 10 virgins waiting, 10 lamps, each with some measure of oil. They all fell asleep. They were all still there at midnight. They all heard the midnight cry. During the daylight hours, they were all ready. Five virgins were called wise because they were "more ready" for the bridegroom to come. But the moral was to watch. How is it that the foolish were less ready AND guilty of not watching? Were they all not watching until they feel asleep? Yes they were. But the greater readiness of the wise was a reflection of their expectations surrounding the return of the bridegroom. But even they feel asleep. But this shows that even their expectations of his return fell short of actual reality. This equates to Jesus's words that no man knows the day or the hour. ALL of our expectations for his return will fall short of the actual conditions and events surrounding his return. But there will come a time when everything prophesied about the days BEFORE his return have been fulfilled. This is essentially what is written in the first 31 verses of Matt 24. You probably disagree with what constitutes the prophesied events taking place prior to his actual return, but this is what constitutes watching for the signs of his return. It is at this juncture that we can begin to understand the exhortation to "be ye also ready". Getting back to the parable of the virgins, we should be able to understand WHY the foolish virgins were "not watching". Midnight came, the loud cry came forth, and the foolish determined that they were not "sufficiently" ready. They began their watching with oil in their lamps, but found themselves wanting when they heard the cry come forth AT MIDNIGHT. They left off watching, to pursue getting more oil for themselves. Their deficient attitude of watchfulmess was not found out until after midnight. They were insufficiently ready BECAUSE they were insufficiently watching. It was a cause and effect atmosphere. Readiness is conditionally dependent on watching. The good news is that they were all somewhat ready... They are all called virgins. The bad news is that not all who are ready will be ready when the bridegroom actually does come for the church. Some virgins will be left behind. So what becomes of those left behind? They do find enough oil, WHILE THEY ARE GONE AND THE BRIDEGROOM COMES, but it was after thee bridegroom came. Do the scriptures have anything to say about this? The answer is yes, and it comes when we examine the words of Jesus concerning the need to be ready. Let's not forget that the conditional state of readiness depends on watchfullness. We see these words. *[[Luk 12:40]] KJV* Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. The actual return of Jesus will involve the time when you are not watching AND not fully ready for his return. The foolish virgins left off (stopped) watching because they were not fully ready. He came when they stopped expecting him to come. But let me reemphasize. They eventually became ready, but not in time to meet the coming of the bridegroom. Lets look at some relevant scripture. Verse list: Luk 12:35-40 KJV Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for THEIR LORD, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him IMMEDIATELY. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. This passage ends with the same scripture found in Matt 24:43-44 about the Goodman of the house and the need to be ready ALSO. Notice the word to be ready immediately when their Lord comes. And notice also the exhortation to be ready in the 2nd or 3rd watches. And finally notice that it says, "their Lord". We find Matthew referring back to this idea. I don't think that the idea of a 2nd & 3rd watch implies a 2nd or even a third rapture. But I do think that it refers to the ideas of a 2nd & 3rd chance to meet up with their Lord. But it will come at a high price. Jesus said that those servants are also among the blessed. What happens to the foolish virgins? They revert to (in leaving) getting themselves ready for the bridegroom. Essentially their focus shifts from the primary Christian motivation of serving others to that of serving their personal need and this is what Jesus says to that in Luke 12:35ff and here: Verse list: Mat 24:45-51 KJV Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, MY LORD delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Twice, he refers in that passage that Jesus is still "my Lord" and "Lord of that servant". Let it be clear that we are talking about servants/ virgins that are insufficiently ready at the time of the actual return of the Lord. Because of the lack of readiness on their part, when the Lord came back, they left off the the ministering love for others and became self centered, focusing on their own need. What will be the requirement for them to enter in the 2nd or 3rd watches? I think it will be no less than dying a martyrs death, most likely during the days of the mark of the beast. To me this brings a deeper meaning to "weeping & gnashing" of teeth. Blessings The PuP
  8. Rev 9 ends with a discussion of the 6th trumpet, also known as the 2nd woe. The discussion of the 7th trumpet, a.k.a. the 3rd woe, resumes in chapter 11. *[[Rev 11:14]] KJV* The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh QUICKLY. What we find here is a connection back to the trumpets in saying that there is not a long period of time between the two events. I have stated before that the 7 trumpets are in accordance with the feast of weeks (one per week). My point being that the mentioning of the 1260 days is not to be taken as the time between the 2nd & 3rd woes. This passage in Rev 10: 1 -11:13 is an interlude that has an essence of commonness that is not readily noticed. The 1260 PLUS 3.5 days is the time factor that ties together the events found within. For some period of time, I have understood the bulk of the text (even tho very few others have yet to see it) but, I have to admit that I did not understand why it was specifically placed where it was, [After ch.9], at least not well enough to convince anyone of what it is about. But I think that I can now put all the pieces together. Understanding the short time between the two woes is essential to recognizing why. So what events do we have that can all be tied together. 1. The mighty angel that stands on the sea and on the earth. 2. The end of the mystery of God. 3. The two witnesses. 4. The man with the measuring reed. 5. The sounding of the 7th trumpet. 6.The death & resurrecting of the 2 witnesses. 7.The trampling of Jerusalem for 42 months. This interlude begins with the mighty angel, parlaying a direct connection to the 7th trumpet, and ends with the resurrection of the 2 witnesses, and then immediately resuming with the 7th trumpet. What are the likely endpoint parameters that pertain to this interlude? First, we must identify the theme of the interlude. There should be no question what the endpoint is... The resurrection of the 2 witnesses. What choices do we have for the beginning point? It should only be a choice between the arrival of the 2 witnesses and the beginning of the 42 months in the trampling of Jerusalem. The 42 months seems to be directly related to the measuring/ restoration of Jerusalem. This is found in Zech 2 when God moves with favor (Again) towards Jerusalem and we see the man with the measuring device in his hand. Rev. 11 shows this to be John himself. Because the 1263.5 days is going to be longer than 42 months (which would be only about 1239 days), the arrival of the 2 witnesses appears to be the beginning point of this interlude, even tho their specific arrival is not directly alluded to. But we still haven't answered the question of when the 2 witnesses show up. If we believe that Elijah is one of the 2 witnesses, then we should be able to conclude that we are looking at the last half of the final 7 years. The purpose of Elijah is said to be to restore all things. This would mean that the end of the ministry of the 2 witnesses would coincide with the return of Jesus at Armageddon. Another reason to believe that we are looking at the middle of the 70th week is that the woman flees into the wilderness for 1260 days, and this point of beginning is when Satan is cast out of heaven. This takes place definitely in the middle of the week. Can we connect the arrival of the 2 witnesses in the middle of the week with Rev 10? Yes. The mystery of God that is associated with the mighty angels loud cry will be complete when the 7th trumpet sounds. What happens there? Nothing less than the judgment & resurrection of the saints and prophets. This is also the final end of the 2 witnesses... resurrection. But what does this have to do with their arrival? Unless you are neither pretrib, nor post-trib, you will probably reject this part of the teaching about the mighty angel and its connection to the resurrection/ rapture. There is an overlooked part of Rev 10 that has a confirmatory witness in 2 different places directly and numerous indirect references. *[[Rev 10:3]] KJV* And cried with a LOUD VOICE, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. In 1 Thess 4, everyone knows that the Lord will descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT. And in Matt 25 the arrival of the bridegroom is preceded with a MIDNIGHT CRY. Numerous old testament scriptures speak of the voice of the Lord, a shout, that will shake the heavens and the earth. These are all the one and same shout. The scene in Rev 10 is that of the mighty angel that spans the earth and the sea. This sea is the same crystal sea, a.k.a. the sea of glass. We know that this sea was portrayed in Solomon's temple as the brazen sea beneath the mercy seat and is found to be beneath and before the throne of God in Rev. 4,7, & 15, where righteous souls await their resurrection. This is confirmed there and in the book of Enoch to be the single abode of the souls of the righteous dead. It is said to be separated from the world of the living by a great gulf fixed that prevents either side from "visiting" the other in Luke 16. This mighty angel, standing on the earth and on the crystal sea is the means by which the souls of the righteous can bridge this mighty gulf and be reunited with their bodies. This reunification/ resurrection will begin with the rapture of the dead in Christ at the first trumpet and include the resurrection of the saints and prophets of Israel at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. It will also will be the means to which the 2 witnesses will appear on earth during this time. Think about it for a moment. We have the resurrection/ rapture of the dead in Christ, and the resurrection of the saints and prophets at the 7th trumpet. This will include John the revelator who is the one seen with the measuring reed and is said that he will prophesy AGAIN before many people's. AND we see also the arrival of the 2 witnesses. All of this just before and including the 7th trumpet. When the saints & prophets are resurrected at that time, it will bring an end to what constitutes those who have walked in the mystery of godliness. *[[1Ti 3:16]] KJV* And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. When Jesus returns, there will no longer be any mystery to the godliness of the saints. It will be clearly manifested in the resurrected saints & prophets dwelling on earth. John included the resurrection of the two witnesses so that it would make it easier to understand this interlude found in Rev 10:1 - 11:13. The little book in the hand of the mighty angel is the book of life. As the very bridge to eternal life, it is necessary that he knows WHO is in the book, for it is now open. The names and contents of the book have remained a mystery from time immemorial. "Time shall be no more", is to proclaim that the mysterious contents of the book, the book of life, shall be revealed for all the world to see, and that God knew the end from the very beginning. Blessings The PuP
  9. There are 3 points about this parable of the 10 virgins that need to be understood to identify who the foolish virgins represent. 1. The word "then" as per: THEN shall the kingdom of heaven... 2. What is the meaning of Matthews use of KOH? 3. What truth is the moral of the parable? Understanding #2 is foremost to grasping #1 & #3. Matthew is the only gospel writer to use KOH (kingdom of heaven) and KOG (kingdom of God). He is also the only one to speak about the church of Jesus Christ. Because Matthew speaks of both KOH and the KOG, it should immediately tell us that it is for a purpose. The mystery is found in Luke's gospel. In Luke 22;16-18, we find Jesus saying that the coming of the KOG is a future event. Verse list: Luk 22:16-18 KJV For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. In verses 29 & 30, we find that the interim time, from the departure of Jesus unto the Father, until his return (when the apostles shall sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel), that Jesus says that it is to be known as the kingdom of the apostles. Verse list: Luk 22:29-30 KJV And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on THRONES judging the TWELVE TRIBES of Israel. Paul says in Ephesians 2;20 that the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles & prophets, with Jesus as the cornerstone. Furthermore, Jesus tells Peter that the church is built upon the confession that Jesus is the Son of the living God, and that the keys or the principles of entering the kingdom of heaven have been given to Peter. Regarding the fact that Matthew speaks extensively about the KOH, AND also speaks of the KOG, an important point is to be noted. He never speaks of inheriting the KOH. Also, let me now connect the kingdom of God, as per Luke with Matt 19:28,29. There it says that we INHERIT everlasting life when, 1. Jesus sits on the throne of his glory, And, 2. The apostles will judge the 12 tribes. Verse list: Mat 19:28-29 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the THRONE of his GLORY, ye also shall sit upon TWELVE THRONES, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall INHERIT everlasting life. Luke said that this was when the kingdom of God shall come. Our inheritance in the kingdom will come when Jesus returns with the kingdom. 2Tim 4:1 says that the kingdom of God will come at his appearing. All references to inheriting the kingdom, all speak of inheriting the KINGDOM of God and that of nothing unrighteous will be taking part. *[[Mat 25:34]]* Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: *[[1Co 6:9]]* Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, *[[1Co 6:10]]* Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. *[[1Co 15:50]]* Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. *[[Gal 5:21]]* Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. *[[Eph 5:5]]* For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. In all of the KOH parables, there is this continual theme of good and evil, righteous and unrighteous, leavened and unleavened, wise and foolish. What this all means is that the kingdom of heaven is the rule of God in the church under the principles and teachings of the apostles & prophets in the absence and presence of Jesus as king. Our inheritance, and the kingdom will be established with the return of Jesus. The KOG will come when Jesus visibly sits as the reigning authority of the kingdom. The KOH is when Jesus reigns as the invisible authority of the church, via his Holy Spirit. In essence the mystery of the kingdom will cease when the Jews are no longer in blindness and are viewed as included within the church. The KOH will end when Jesus sits upon the throne of his glory, Matt 19:28; 25:31;Mar 8:38; Luke 9:26;1Thess 3:13. This is also found in the KOH parables of the tares and the net full of fish, with the angels being sent to remove from HIS kingdom, the things that offend and those who commit iniquity. The KOH parables of the 10 virgins AND of the talents, found in Matt 25, is then followed by this in Matt 25:31, when he comes with the holy angels. We can now understand the usage of the word "then" in the parable of the 10 virgins. It is the last state of the kingdom of heaven, the church, before Jesus returns at the rapture. This is exactly what we see in the coming of the bridegroom, and only the wise enter in. The delineation of the wise & foolish is further expounded on in Matt 7. The wise built his house upon the Rock, and the foolish built their house upon the sand. In both cases, a great storm comes. The wise are clarified to be those who hear the commandments of God and do them. The foolish do not what is written in the commandments. Here we should be able to see the "invisible reign" of God within the heart of the believer. These are the righteous, who will inherit the KOG and everlasting life. The unrighteous members of the KOH, who will not inherit the KOG are those who call Jesus "their Lord", but do not obey the commandments of God. "Not all who say, Lord, Lord, shall enter the KOH...but he that does the will of the Father ". Midnight, in the parable of the virgins, equates to the great storm that the builders on the Rock and the sand, must ALL face. So lets now look at the moral of the parable of the virgins. *[[Mat 25:13]] KJV* Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. This is a virtual word for word rendition found: *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But Jesus follows that up with the "Goodman of the house", where that moral is "be ye ready ALSO". So Jesus tells us, the members of the KOH, to Watch AND Be Ready, for his coming. This is why I think that many misunderstand the coming of Jesus at the rapture. They fail to distinguish between watching and being ready. The exhortation to be ready is because Jesus will "come at an hour in which you think not". Whereas, watching pertains to "you do not know the hour". They sound the same, but in reality are not. The command to be ready [TO MEET THE LORD AT HIS COMING] hinges on the precursory need to watch [... and be ye also ready]. Keep in mind that we are talking about the Lord coming for those that "are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord". It's not saying that you can't be ready if you are not watching. It's saying that watching is a necessary precursor to being ready WHEN the Lord shall come in the rapture. Being ready is a state of the heart. Watching is a state of the physical mind. You don't have a mind to think with, IF YOU ARE DEAD! To physically meet the Lord at his coming, you have to be watching AND be ready. The pretrib world has essentially abandoned the need for watching, and have settled for only the need of the heart, by only needing to be ready. I can't quarrel with their readiness to meet the Lord. But I do take issue with their need to be watching. I think everyone should know what I mean. Imminency, precludes the need to be watching. Let me reiterate. The moral of the 10 virgins parable is to watch. It is not about "being ready ". The foolish virgins failed in their assessed need for watching. I will get back to this in a minute, but let me first get back to distinguishing between watching and being ready. In the parable of the Goodman of the house we see this: *[[Mat 24:43]] KJV* But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what WATCH the thief would come, he would have WATCHED, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. To which Jesus says, "be ye ALSO READY ". Notice that there are 2 words referring to "watch". But they are not of the same root word in the Greek. Watch & Watched. The word "watch" (G5438, phulake) is the same word that Jesus uses when he tells us to watch: *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch/(phulake) therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. *[[Mat 25:13]] KJV* Watch/(phulake) therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. But the word "watched" (G1127, gregoreou) is different. Surely this is the basis for the Goodman being ready. So, the word watch/ phulake, means "if he knew what WATCH..." The word implies WHEN the thief would come. Put another way, it refers to the events surrounding the thief' s coming. Paul used the words "times & seasons" of his coming to refer to this word of watching for the return of Jesus. But Paul concluded those words in 1 Thess 5:6 with "watch & BE SOBER." Verse list: 1Th 5:6-8 KJVLite Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. He established that those "of the day" are the ones who are watching and understanding the times & seasons. So, the Goodman's watching (gregoreou) is in response to knowing WHEN (phulake) the thief was going to come. The belief that the rapture is in a current state of imminency, is to remove that need and command of Jesus to be watching(phulake) for the signs of his return. Getting back to the foolish virgins parable, let us get back to the point of why the foolish are distinguished from the wise. This will be the foundational principle of the moral of the parable of the virgins. They were not watching. What does this mean? They did not take extra oil because they misunderstood the events that would surround the return of the bridegroom, Jesus! What was that purpose of the oil in the lamp? It was so that the bridegroom, when he returns, could identify the bridesmaids, even in the midst of that darkness of midnight. The foolish thought that he would return in the brightness of the day. But the wise knew to be prepared for the darkness to come first. The oil simply represents the abundant presence of Jesus , in the form of the Holy Ghost, to live a godly life in the midst of the circumstances of life while they wait for Him to return(he is not physically present). .This is the essence of the kingdom of heaven. The parable of the virgins is NOT about "not being ready", but is about "not watching". They understood the essence of being ready, but did not understand the need to watch in regards to meeting the bridegroom when he comes. Does it mean that they were not ready? I don't think that we can conclude that they were neither physically nor spiritually ready. But the fact that they did not perish when the bridegroom actually comes, does not bid well for them being ready spiritually. They are all referred to as virgins. The great storm (in Matt 7) and the hour of midnight in this parable, both represent the unexpected conditions that the members of the KOH, the church will go through. Since none of the virgins experience the loss of their life, I would say that the 10 virgins represents only those who will come out of the storm of the great tribulation alive. They were neither watching nor ready, BECAUSE they were not part of meeting the groom, when he came sometime after midnight. Some other conclusions. 1. Only those who are part of the KOH ("believers") will be among those who are watching for the return of Jesus. But not everyone who IS watching will survive those dark days of the G.T. The tribulation is no respector of persons. 2. Not everyone who survived the G.T. will have been part of the KOH. There will still be some who have not heard the gospel at the time of the rapture. See Isa 66. (Again, the G.T. will be no respector of persons. We must Pray to be accounted worthy to escape). 3.There are some who may be ready spiritually in their heart, [And survived the G.T.] but are/were found among those not watching. (G.T. is no respector of persons.) 4.There MAY be some who are in the kingdom of heaven, who are watching for the signs of his return, but are not spiritually ready for his return, AND actually survive those days. They will succumb to the temptations that follow... The pleasures of life & the deceitfulness of riches. See Matt 24:48-51. They were not ready: *[[Mat 24:50]] KJV* The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, Do you see how this mirrors what Jesus said about being ready? *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also READY: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. The foolish virgins are the ones that the times and seasons of his return will come upon them unexpectedly [not watching]. They may or may not be ready. But they did not enter into the bride chamber when Jesus came for the church. My sad conclusion is that some who are ready, will miss the rapture, but will find enough oil to eventually make it to be with Jesus. Blessings The PuP
  10. I don't know if this has anything to do with why some manuscripts use 616 instead of 666, but consider this. If the unknown Greek letter is represented by the number 2, then 22 times 14 times 2 = 616. Blessings The PuP
  11. Is not the rapture the salvation of the body? When the living put on immortality and the dead put on a body of incorruption? How could there potentially be no flesh to save, if the rapture has already occurred? Any one have a scripture to explain why God wants to save unregenerate men? Blessings The PuP
  12. Three points. 1. Revelation is a about things which must shortly take place. *[[Rev 1:1]] KJV* The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2. The letter to the 7 churches is from the 7 spirits AND from Jesus, the PRINCE of kings: *[[Rev 1:4]] KJV* John to the seven churches..., FROM him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and FROM the seven Spirits which are before his throne;*5* And FROM Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the PRINCE of the KINGS of the EARTH. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 3. The sum of the book is prophetically addressed to the 7 churches, and not the body of Christ in general. For starters you understand that most of it is future. But it's the part that you think is history is what is your hangup. And the part that you feel that falls into the historical category is the letters to the 7 churches. The relevance of the letters is for when the 7 spirits (one for each church) comes. It does not come into play until the 7 spirits have been sent into all the earth, Rev 5:6. *[[Rev 5:6]] KJV* And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. I am not going to go into detail of things, primarily because you see the letters as historical and because of that, you can't grasp the big picture, and almost no one does. What is the big picture? Firstly, the children of Israel will be here during all of the end times, what we would call the 70th week. The 7 spirits will be dwelling in and ministering to the 7 churches during these times. Secondly, these churches are historical in nature, but are addressed to churches that will exist in the future, during these end times. How can that be? The children of Israel will be scattered into the whole world during these days of great troubles, and will be gathered unto 7 places where they will exist as a church/ congregations, that will not exist until after the 7th trumpet sounds. You can't even grasp how Israel is the focus of things. The letters to the churches are all about bringing Israel into a right relationship with God during this time between the setting up of the kingdom and when Jesus returns at Armageddon. Circumventing the prophetic nature of the 7 letters into a historical nature puts a permanent cloud over anyone trying to understand the matter. Because of your "personal revelation" of understanding, all efforts to convince you otherwise, have been and will continue to be futile. So, go ahead and disagree all you want. The blindness is on your own heart and you can't even see it. Have a wonderful life. Blessings The PuP
  13. In your theory this works fine because you view this as a past event. John says the whole book of revelation is a book of prophecy: *[[Rev 22:18]] KJV* For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: *[[Rev 22:19]] KJV* And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Just as the woman giving birth signifies that Jerusalem has not become the kingdom city of Jesus, so is the whole of the book prophetic of things that shall come to pass in the Day of God when he shall judge the secrets of men's hearts by that man whom he has appointed. You have denigrated revelation into a history book and not a book of prophecy. Blessings The PuP
  14. The vision of the woman giving birth to the child, [you know this] comes directly from Isa 66 and she/her refers indistinctly as Zion once and Jerusalem 8 times. It would be inconsistent to NOT refer to her or the stars as a city and angels. Not to mention that Paul also alludes to Isa 66 when Jesus comes with angels of flaming vengeance, in 2 Thess 1. This equates to Jesus avenging the saints, when the prayers of the saints are poured out in immediate preparation for the 7 trumpet angels. Verse list: 2Th 1:6-8 KJV Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Rev 8:3-4 KJV And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. An extended discourse is found of this same scene in Eze 10 & 11, where the glory of God departs from Jerusalem and the wicked men are told that they will bff removed from there in judgment of God upon them. [Snippet] *[[Eze 10:2]] KJV* And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. Blessings The PuP
  15. John consistently uses stars as a symbolic representation of the angels: Verse list: Rev 1:20 KJV The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven STARS ARE the ANGELS of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Rev 12:4 KJV And his tail drew the third part of the STARS of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:9 KJV And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his ANGELS were cast out with him. The one time that stars is used symbolically in Rev is that of the woman in ch.12, John does not give us the interpretation directly. But John does use the symbol of a woman to represent a city in ch. 17 and 21, and because the woman in ch.12 is seen in heaven and NOT on earth, AND because the New Jerusalem is seen with 12 angels at the 12 gates, AND because the heavens are rolled back like a scroll with the opening of the 6th seal... [*[[Rev 6:14]] KJV* And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.] ...it is not an interpretive violation to view the woman in heaven in ch. 12, as being a glimpse of the New Jerusalem and her 12 Angels that guard the gates. At the very least you can say is that John does not interpret the symbolic use of stars inconsistently, even tho most men do. And, as I use as a guideline, any vision of man, yours or any others, that does not have the backing of scripture, is unworthy of being considered gospel truth. Just as you or I are unworthy of God's grace, Jesus too, is unworthy to open any seal that would initiate the judgment of God. I have shown (and you have agreed) that Jesus is currently unworthy to open the 6th seal because it is the judgment of God. Your views of the first 5 seals have no support of scripture, and I have shown them to be just that, the judgments upon Israel first, and as such, have gives you no firm ground to stand on. The only massive rearranging is found in how it does not agree with your rearrangement of the 7th trumpet to the time of the "midpoint" of when Satan is cast out of heaven. Blessings The PuP
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