Patrick Miron

Hi Patrick 10-03-18 needs reply Worthy Christians Forum/Indulgences [1] One of my degrees is a Bachelor's of Religion with an emphasis on NT studies. When you say "1,500 years": 1) The Reformation did not start with Luther, but much earlier [2] 2) Since Peter was told you are "Petrus, a little pebble, and I, Jesus Christ, am the ROCK," I place the Roman church as starting with Constantine and his mother [3] One logical possibility, since thousands of the sects you mentioned "all have different doctrines" but ALL never "found" Marian worship, Ex Cathedra, celibate priests and other heinous doctrines--respectfully--these are heinous doctrines to me--in the scriptures, either all of these are deviant, lost sects, that thousands of times started or schism-started based on their adherence to the Bible--or the RCC is wrong. [4] PS. Again, please don't get angry with me, but if it was "Rome's Bible" you can understand why I find it also heinous to persecute and kill people for daring to want to put Rome's Bible in the hands of Rome's thralls. [5] I have little problem with the many poor Catholic doctrines, frankly, my problem is they have the wrong gospel. Salvation is by faith, not works, and we can discuss that as brothers even if I'm not as deep in my Catholic studies as you--we're talking about a BIBLE STUDY. [6] Pushing tradition above BIBLE STUDY is upsetting to me. If you want to convict my conscience, let's go from the Bible, not Douay commentary. I never want to argue again with you the fact that I'm in the universal church without being in the Catholic "universal!" church. Can we talk Bible or not? Hi, and thanks for the POST. I have taken the liberty of numbering your points; which God willing I sj=hall reply to [1] Correct; I’m aware of that. Wycliffe, and to a lesser degree Has in the 14th Century were an early influence on 16th Century, Marin Luther {an apostate Catholic Monk} who is the recognized “Father” of the Protestant Revolution. And there were others as well. [2] I AM shocked to see that some seminaries are still teaching this unable to be substantiated claim: 1. Jesus Spoke Aramaic; not Greek. In THAT language the ONLY translation for Peter is “Rock.” John.1: 40 to 42 “One of the two who heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. He first found his brother Simon, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which means Christ). He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas" (which means Peter). [WHICH MEANS ROCK] Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results {a decidedly Non-Catholic site} Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results Result of search for "Peter": 2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710); the Rock; Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas. 4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786 Result of search for "Cephas": 2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710); the Rock; Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas. www.agapebiblestudy.com: "Cephas" is the Greek transliteration of Peter's Aramaic name "Rock" = Kepha, or perhaps in Galilean Aramaic "Qepha". Only John among the Gospels gives this form of Peter's name but it is also the preferred name that St. Paul uses when he writes about Peter.” Feed MY Sheep John 21:15-17 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." [16] A second time he said to him, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." [17] He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" And he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep I CAN provide a detailed list of 50 Peter Bible FIRST references if you’d care to see it? [3] If you actually care to discuss this plethora of seemingly unjustifiable issues one by one; we can do that. [4] Protestant TRICK #? When you don’t have an intelligent response; mock and attack {it’ll work some of the time}; BUT not with me. If you wish to discuss these issue individually; then let’s do so. BUT I expect to answer question you deem worthy to ask; and EXPECT the same curtesy in return. And name calling and accusations is just childish! Your highly educated; I’m just a high school graduate. Surely you were trained to do better than what you have exhibited in this POST? I noticed that I have yet to see the term “Truth” in your points. [5] Sure, I’m not on your level; but am still willing to discuss salvation history with you. Lead on, if that is what you wish to discuss? [6] No my new friend I will not let you tell ME what I can use as evidence. The Douay Bible, as I hope you would have discovered in your studies; pre dates the King James in Publication date. And The Douay is a English Translation of the 4th Century Latin Vulgate. This was of course the WORLDS Bible until the Douay and King James. The verbal is in your court friend. May Jesus guide our Life paths, Patrick

BUT did you actually Learn what Jesus Taught: Seems not. John 20: [24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. [25]The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. [27] Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.[28] Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed. [30] Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book. [31] But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name. Friend, you don't seem to know what you're preaching Patrick

Actually IT IS; but you have it would seem, denied the grace to see it. {Its right next to the term "bible" Research the Origin of the Bible and HISTORY and origin of the Roman Catholic Church. Then maybe we can have an intelligent discussion. Mt. 28:16-20 [16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [17] And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, TEACH YOU ALL nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world. DOUAY BIBLE EXPLANATION [18] "All power": See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14." SO FRIEND IF THIS IS NOT PASSING ON CHRIST FAITH THROUGH HIS APOSTLES; PERHAPS YOU'D BE KIND ENOUGH TO TRANSLATE THIS FOR US. God Bless you, Patrick

Friend, do yourself and your Soul a huge favor. Google the history of 1. The Bible 2. The Roman Catholic Church The Bible was exclusively a CATHOLIC Book for 1,500 years BEFORE the Protestant revolution. Once you complete YOU'RE research, we MIGHT have something to discuss God Bless you, Patrick

And YOU know this exactly How? The Bible is a Catholic Book my friend. Do some research actual research on the origin of the Bible. Your understanding is SHOCKINGLY ignorant {uniformed} God Bless you, Patrick

[1]The Disciples weren't and are not priests, Done let the Catholics con you with there erroneous beliefs. Eph 4: 11 says Jesus gave. Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers... Where is the priest? where is the pope??. Nowhere in the Biblical New Testament Church [2]Jesus said EVERY believer will do the same works that Jesus did. Jn 14: 12, and EVERY believer shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mk 16: 17--18. [3]I have explained what Jn 20: 23 means, and how you CAN'T take ONE out of context verse to build a doctrine on. There is no such Biblical thing as the sacrament of penance. It's one of the erroneous teachings that the Catholics made up. [4]Forget Lev 5, It isn't in the New Testament Church age. Friend your looking to argue about things you seem not to know anything about. I have neither the time nor the energy anymore to do so. I'm a teacher, not a debater these days God Bless you Patrick

OH! Who picks who gets saved and others sent to hell? Really? 1. So for at least 1,500 YEARS before the Reformation, we Catholics got it "all wrong."? And then for 500 more years we still haven't embraced Protestant theology; choosing to rather keep the OLD "Tried and True" Original set of Faith beliefs of Jesus Himself passed on to Us Catholics.... Go figure. 2. Point #2 is the Bible my friend s a Catholic Book. It was the early Catholic Fathers who guided by the HS selected amidst much debate the 46 OT books to be included; and Catholic men {including 5 Apostles} who AUTHORED the ENTIRE NT.... Does it not seem strange to YOU that Protestants with literally thousands of differing sets of Faith beliefs {each and every "church" is self-identified by its OWN freely chosen set of faith-beliefs} are attempting to tell the Catholics with ONE set of 2,000 year Old Faith beliefs what the ITS OWN Bible is teaching? 2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise. 21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. End Quotes 2nd. Peter 3: 14-18 “ [15] And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. [17] You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and unto the day of eternity. Amen. Then if the above is not grasped in its significance to you; please consider the following. Duet. 4: 2 “ [2] You shall not add to the word that I speak to you, neither shall you take away from it: keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Duet 12:32 [32] What I command thee, that only do thouto the Lord: neither add any thing, nor diminish. Rev. 22:19 “ [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book. In addition to textual changes to accommodate their NEWLY invented religions; Luther {a Apostate Catholic Monk; and Calvin an Apostate Catholic deleted 7 entire books from the bible as they somehow conflicted with what THEY wanted to teach; and you my friend are going to lecture me about not rightly understanding OUR Bible.?.... Go figure. Psalm 30:24-25 "[24] O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord will require truth, and will repay them abundantly that act proudly. [25] Do ye manfully, and let your heart be strengthened, all ye that hope in the Lord. May Jesus guide our life path’s, God Bless you, Patrick

Thank you so much. Salvation is a lifetime TEST. {Isa. 43: 7 & 21} Other than Christian Baptism, I can think of no other single act; single belief that by itself can {or does} have the power or authority to insure one’s {anyone’s} salvation. {The Sacrament of Final Anointing; similar to Baptism, includes as the NORM, Sacramental Confession; and like Baptism does also removes ALL Temporal Punishment as well is actually several actions inter connected.} Sacred Tradition Does not so much “Trump” Scripture as act as confirmation of it. That said though the Catholic Church is a Church Of the Bible. There ought not to be contradictions when both are rightly understood. An Imprimatur in and of itself does not make a book “OFFICIAL” Catholic Doctrine. Rather it is assurance that what it teaches and contains conforms with the Catholic Ordinary Magisterium. God Bless you friend, Patrick

Dear friend, I TRULY am grateful for your thoughtful reply. PLEASE do yourself a favor and look up the lengthy and evidenced response I made on this topic eariler. I'm 74 and not in great health, and have neither the energy of the time to keep repeating myself. May Jesus guide our life paths, Patrick

Okee-Dokee, if you say so God Bless you friend Patrick

SORRY, I don't understand how that happened God Bless you, Patrick

Thanks friend for sharing you're thoughts Patrick

My friend, that is an "ignorant" {uninformed} statement. The many investigated Catholic Saints {capitol "S"] were perfect which is how and WHY they are saints. Then there are the multitude of investigated "saints" {small "s", who too are saints}☺️ This is largely possible by the Sacrament of the "Last Rites" {James 5:14} " [14] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring inthe priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him." Similar to Sacramental Baptism; this Sacrament too {which as the NORM /with exceptions] includes Sacramental Confession; removes ALL sins as well as the Temporal Punishment attached to all sins; hence a Soul is literally "made Perfect" and should that persona die before sinning again; that Soul would ascend directly init heaven. God Bless you, Patrick

Indeed Salvation is an OFFERED Gift from God; only NOT in the manner believed by you and most Protestants. Salvation is a process and Life itself is Thee God Test. {Isaiah 43: 7 & 21} I respectfully remind you again the we Catholics were being Saved Christ way for fifteen centuries before Luther's' lead Protestant reformation {which BTW is found exactly where in the bible?} God Bless you Patrick

OK, I'll bite {even though I KNOW what your going to say}; so YOU prove it. God Bless you, Patrick