Brother Duke

I do know the resurrection/harpazo is after the 6th seal before the wrath at the 7th seal along with the bowls of wrath. This is the same wrath at Rev 11. Rev 11:11-12 even show the harpazo and the 2 witness caught up which also corresponds with after the 6th seal. I agree the wrath begins at the 7th seal which is after the 2nd woe as I posted. The vials are the wrath of God. Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev 17:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

I do not believe in a treaty being confirmed by the anti-christ or a new physical temple. The covenant that was confirmed was with God and Christ. The temple is our body so no need there either. Christ is the one that put an end to sacrifice and confirmed the New Covenant and was killed in the middle of his ministry, not some anti-christ. People are looking for the wrong signs. Here is the only sign I know of before the tribulation. 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; And the falling away is not the church departing in a secret rapture.

The wrath is after the 2nd woe since it is during the 3rd woe which is after the 2nd woe. Also Rev 11:13 is not at the end of the wrath. The wrath is not even mentioned in Rev 11 until Rev 11:18 but the dark sun and dark moon and earthquake are a celestial events showing the beginning of the wrath of God. which is noted throughout the OT and the NT. Why do you believe the day of wrath is one year long? Is this speculation because a day equates to one year? I think the day of wrath happens fairly quick including believers being resurrected and then taken up in the harpazo to meet Christ in the clouds.

The key to Revelation is the woes and God's wrath. They are time stamps on how to organize Revelation. Revelation jumps around a bit and tells the same things from different viewpoints and symbology. Also the word "Alas" is also the same word origin as woe. You can also follow the earthquake. The Earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the same quake as Rev 11:13. There seems to always be a Earthquake around the time of resurrection as it happened during Christ and also when the 2 Witnesses are resurrected. Revelation 6:12 corresponds with Matthew 24:29. The wrath of God which is after the 2nd woe is shown in Rev 6 and in Rev 11. Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

I posted these verses else where but they apply here also. Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Hos 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to [them which were] not my people, Thou [art] my people; and they shall say, [Thou art] my God. Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Hos 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to [them which were] not my people, Thou [art] my people; and they shall say, [Thou art] my God. Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Replacement theology is a great new topic. I think quite the opposite. The Gentiles replacing Israel is actually the true replacement theology. The gentiles do not replace Israel but are grafted in with Israel. God saves Israel the people not the land. We are all grafted in together and known as Israel. Jew, Greek and Gentile believers.

How long are we with Christ in the clouds before he returns? Perhaps we wait for a few before returning but just the same the Bible says we end up back on Earth with God and Christ in New Jerusalem.

I can work with days but if that is so and the daily sacrifices were suspended in 70 AD then what happened in 72.5 AD to 73 AD(1290 days after daily) that we would call the abomination?

My point in mentioning years is I do not know what 1290 days means. Does it mean a true 1290 days or 3.5 years? Probably. Does it mean 1290 years? I do not know but I have seen others that have this point of view. I just do not know and am seeking clarification.

Nothing makes me think days vs years. Other than some times a day can represent an amount of time other than 24 hours. Like Daniel's weeks or day is equal to a thousand years. So what happened 1290 days after the priests the priests stopped the daily sacrifice?

70 A.D. So if we apply 1290 Days/years what was the abomination?

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. If we know when the daily sacrifice is taken away then 1290 days later we should be able to pinpoint the abomination.

The abomination happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifices are taken away. What are the daily sacrifices?

One of the sabbaths or mia ton sabbaton might also refer to counting the omer as they counted the seven sabbaths before shavuot. Instead of the day of week. Lev 23:15 'And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed.

Hi Charlie, I agree with you. The months and days of the month were changed but the days of the week were not changed. The Jews have been following the 7 day week since before they left Egypt with all the tribes of Israel.

I think we just see things differently. I do see Rev 12 in the first Woe since it matches other events in other parts of the first Woe like the star falling heaven an opening the bottomless pit and releasing in Rev 9. If this star does not represent the devil freeing the beast I do not know what does. Clearly we can see that the beast is released from the bottomless pit in 1st Woe. This is wrath from the Devil Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. In Rev 11 We see the beast that comes out of the bottomless pit makes war with God's witnesses and kills them during the 2nd woe and we have not even reached God's wrath yet in the 3rd woe. Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

God's Wrath and the Devils Wrath are not on the same day. The Devil has Wrath during the 1st Woe. God's Wrath starts at the 3rd Woe. 1st Woe Below Devil's Wrath Rev 12:12 Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. 3rd Woe Below God's Wrath Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

In post trib we still would not know the day and hour of his return. You assume we could identify when the 1260 starts.

I believe when we have the Spirit of God fully that we will know.

Hi Diaste an alternate interpretation of this verse. Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many Mark 13:5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. These Verses could be about a false Christs like David Koresh or it could also be a formal church like the RCC or other churches claiming that they come in the name of Christ and that Jesus is the Messiah and then use this knowledge to deceive the many and steer them away from the truth that Christ spoke.

We are not saved by works but those that are saved will follow God's instructions. Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Who among us when we have the Holy Spirit dwell in us fully would then deny those instructions from the very spirit of God?

Mat 25:26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

Joh 7:2 Now the Jews' Feast of Tabernacles was at hand. Joh 14:2 "In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. Act 7:48 "However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Joh 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 1Pe 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.