Michael37

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Paul is not wrong when he writes this. The Worthy Statement Of Faith concludes with this: We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. Problems arise when comparisons are made between Scriptures that do not comport to the same context, that is, they are not discussing the same subject. Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. Paul is speaking of Adam when he refers to "one that sinned", and is not wrong to do so.

Many of them do here, but if they are wise they don't butt heads against the standing orders that prohibit it in their services, but participate in the extra-curricular groups that meet outside the authority of their congregation and denomination. Odd thing, Anglicans here voting yes to gay clergy but no to charismata.

Covet them earnestly, in fact.

1Co 14:1 KJV Follow after charity (agape), and desire spiritual (pneumatikos )[gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy. Yes, notice in the Greek above, what is to be followed and what is to be desired. In this context speaking forth whatever the Holy Spirit gives is to be desired. As you may know, when it is obvious a person has been called to serve in a particular function and endowed with the spiritual qualities to fulfill that function they themselves are a gift to the body of Christ. (Ephesians 4) Apostles are sent forth for administration. Prophets speak forth for edification, exhortation, and comfort. Evangelists call forth for salvation, reconciliation, sanctification, and hope. Pastors care for the flock. Teachers educate the flock.

Death reigned as a monarch reigns from the moment Adam sinned to the moment Moses received the Law, and is still reigning. Paul IS speaking about physical death. There is no need to conflate the context by bringing spiritual death into the frame. This is from the Contemporary English Version, which I hope will clarify things for you. Rom 5:12-21 (12) Adam sinned, and that sin brought death into the world. Now everyone has sinned, and so everyone must die. (13) Sin was in the world before the Law came. But no record of sin was kept, because there was no Law. (14) Yet death still had power over all who lived from the time of Adam to the time of Moses. This happened, though not everyone disobeyed a direct command from God, as Adam did. In some ways Adam is like Christ who came later. (15) But the gift that God was kind enough to give was very different from Adam's sin. That one sin brought death to many others. Yet in an even greater way, Jesus Christ alone brought God's gift of kindness to many people. (16) There is a lot of difference between Adam's sin and God's gift. That one sin led to punishment. But God's gift made it possible for us to be acceptable to him, even though we have sinned many times. (17) Death ruled like a king because Adam had sinned. But that cannot compare with what Jesus Christ has done. God has been so kind to us, and he has accepted us because of Jesus. And so we will live and rule like kings. (18) Everyone was going to be punished because Adam sinned. But because of the good thing that Christ has done, God accepts us and gives us the gift of life. (19) Adam disobeyed God and caused many others to be sinners. But Jesus obeyed him and will make many people acceptable to God. (20) The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful. (21) Sin ruled by means of death. But God's kindness now rules, and God has accepted us because of Jesus Christ our Lord. This means that we will have eternal life.

That's a serious accusation, and seriously false. People, including innocent infants, all died during the period from Adam's sin to Moses receiving the Law, so death was not due to any breaking of the Law during that time, but due to the penalty for Adam's sin.

Hi @Your closest friendnt The discussion branched out from end times to the question of Adam's sin, hence the creation of this new thread. Paul has it as follows: Rom 5:12-14 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned: (13) for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is the type of Him who was to come;

Apart from the Bible this is the best resource on prophecy I have come across . . . Prophecy in the Local Church: A Practical Handbook and Historical Overview: Amazon.co.uk: Pytches, David: 9780340595664: Books Here are some quotes from Chapter 20 "The fact that one of the spiritual gifts is for the discerning of spirits (1 Cor 12:10), and the rest of the congregation is told to weigh up the prophecies (1 Cor 14:29) is proof enough that Paul certainly did not believe that gifting in any way implied infallibility". "It is usually a mistake for prophets to be the ultimate authority in a group. A number of heterodox sects and groups have been led by "prophets" whose "inspired" statements led people astray . . . It is the place of prophets to prophesy, but it is the place of the heads of the community to judge prophecy." [Attributed to Bruce Yokum]

Hi @luigi Why is there so much about the end times throughout the bible? Good question. I have pondered the same thing and find myself drawn back to this passage: 2Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (17) that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work. God keeps reminding us that things will climax in the reward of the righteous and punishment of the unrighteous, and with that knowledge we are equipped to do good work.

I won't spoil the "surprise", but will say I recall when television was the much vaunted tool of satan.

What is to be done about those whose comprehension is not right? Hold an inquisition? Stone them? I'm very wary of the "corrective directive " technique of ministry whereby an assertive person uses the power of suggestion to direct someone to believe they are failing or lacking in some respect and that the asserter's dogma is the correct one to remedy the solution. There are ways of communicating that avoid the discord this stirs up. I could keep closing threads like this started by the same author, but a new one with the same issue will pop up. Another OM wants this thread to stay open, so it is going to.

Thankyou @other one . I've split Debp's video to a new thread and let it stay up as it does serve a purpose other than mockery. I have heard a Christian speaker who converted from Islam tell how he gets death threats from Moslems for preaching that Islam is not a religion of peace . . . enough said.

Obviously some in the Sanhedrin weren't happy about it.

Just a sidenote while we are together @Mr. M, to do with John baptising in the river Jordan. Anything in that?

Lists vary, though. There are ongoing discussions about what particular numbers mean, some far fetched and others easily found in the Bible through repeated association. The above list says 40 is trials, probation, testing, which is easily shown in the Bible, but then you might hear a message preached that 40 in the Bible signifies PREPARATION.