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rrobs

Non-Trinitarian
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  1. Deut 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: How does this verse say God is a trinity? If someone can say that, I can say with equal authority (which is really none), that God is 4 persons, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Creator. Of course neither one holds any water. Just leave it as, "The LORD our God [is] one LORD:" One is one.
  2. I'll just answer to one of the verses you gave, John 15:26. John 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: It mentions a comforter (holy spirit), a father, and Jesus himself. Try to imagine reading this verse without ever having heard of the trinity. What is it about this verse that indicates these three individuals are actually one? The rest of the verses are just like that. The very fact that someone mentions their father in no way means they are the same entity. In fact, by any measure of language and the meaning of words, a father and son are by nature two completely different individuals. The Bible is the only realm where a son somehow becomes his own father. It makes no sense. Why is it necessary to have a trinity anyway? God gave man free will. In that sense He limited Himself. Well, Adam didn't do very well with his free will. He used it to disobey God's one simple commandment. Why didn't God come down right then and there and set things right again? Because He had given man the dominion over the earth and it would not be just to simply change His mind and regain dominion from man. Instead He came up with a brilliant plan. If He could convince another man to obey Him to the death, that man would then be freed from sin and it would make it possible to once again have eternal life. But since man caused the problem, it had to be a man that fixed it. How hard do you suppose it was for God to arrange things so that some woman would finally say, "Be it done unto me according to thy word?" And then the resulting child would have to go through his entire life without sinning one single time. And remember, Jesus was just like you and I. He was tempted just like you and I. He had the same free will as you and I. He could have caved in at any moment of his life. It was just as tempting to him to take the devil up on his offer of world dominion as it would for you or I. I'm afraid I might have taken the devil up on his offer and I doubt I'm alone in that regard. But Jesus remained true to his father. Would God have been tempted to take the devil up on his offer? How big of a deal would it be for God to believe he'd raise himself from the dead? How hard would it be for God to obey himself? Clearly none of these things would be any challenge to God. But for a man to pass all these tests; now that's another thing altogether. That is why I say making Jesus a god just minimizes the effort and discipline he exhibited in always doing his father's will at the expense of his own will (Luk 22:42). The fact they each had separate wills should have settled the question long ago. Unless God has a split personality, it is clear they are not one person. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to say, "yes, there are three person but one in essence." That is a non-sequitur if there ever was a non-sequitur. It's nothing more than a string of words completely void of meaning. I hope you know that despite our difference in this matter, I love you as a brother in Christ, because I do!
  3. I feel like I've been saying a lot of bad things about the RCC. Sorry about that. I really don't mean any bad will to anyone, regardless of their religion. Every born again believer didn't start out born again. As far as I know, you yourself may end up being the next Apostle Paul. I'd feel like a heel if I knew I derided you. I'll just assume you are a wonderful child of God and let it go at that. God bless...
  4. Wait a minute! Isn't there a verse that says something about sanctifying people by the Catholic Catechism? John 17:17, Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Oops, disregard the Catechism. It says God's word is truth. My mistake!
  5. I don't mind bursting bubbles so long as the bubble is not scriptural. I don't mind one bit bursting the trinity bubble. The trinity is the very starting point for all other wrong doctrine. God is one, not three in one, but one. God the Father is one god, adding God the Son is now 2 gods, and adding God the Holy Spirit makes three. While it is perfectly in alignment with many of the 1st century pagan mystery religions, it is definitely not scripture. It pretty much makes the redemption story unintelligible. It makes a mockery of God's plan (logos) and it denigrates the work Jesus, being true man, accomplished in his perfect obedience to his father. I think most of the damage the RCC has caused Christendom is direct a result of the trinity doctrine. Once it is accepted it is virtually impossible to understand the true nature of God and His son, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Mistaking a man for a god is a pretty big mistake. It's hard to go much further into the truth with the trinity as a foundation. Read the verses you quoted very carefully. Not one verse you mentioned actually says anything about a trinity. Just because three different things are mentioned in the same verse, it doesn't automatically "prove" the trinity doctrine. While it is true there is a God, there is Jesus, and there is holy spirit, there is no indication that they are somehow the same thing. Daniel chapter 3 relates the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Being three individuals in no way makes them somehow one.
  6. The scriptures declare that God does not judge as man judges. Men look on the outward appearance whereas God looks on the heart. There are plenty of folks who by all outward appearances do not believe the scriptures. Many simply because they haven't had the chance to hear them. What does God do with them? Rom 2:14-16, 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. The Gentiles God refers to were "outside the pale" of God's chosen people and yet many of them were undoubtedly more godly in their actions than the average Jew who, as the OT shows, was prone to act less than godly. God understands that and when they are judged God will take it into account. Of course the best way to go is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10). Anyone that does that is judged on the spot and found righteous, as righteous as God Himself (Rom 3:21-22). It's better to settle the question in this life than to wait for the resurrections and judgments that will occur when Jesus is revealed to do the final judgments and set up the long promised kingdom. But that means someone must tell a person about the truth. How can they be expected to believe something they've never heard? So it is up to us to speak the word to them and give them the chance to settle their eternity right here, right now. Rom 10:13-15, 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! Obviously the RCC is not going to tell them the truth and nothing but the truth. That leaves it up to you and me. I guess we should get busy holding forth God's wonderful matchless word to men and women of any and all religions.
  7. You bring up an excellent point. Paul did in fact do it out of ignorance. The reason he was ignorant was because of the things he was taught in the school of Gamaliel. He simply believed what he was taught and even God understood that Paul was only acting on what he had been taught. I don't think there is a RCC priest who, like Paul, is not doing anything other than what he was taught. Like so many problems in society, the cause is institutional, not the individual members of that institution. We can speak the word to people and the institution will change on it's own accord as the people begin to see truth.
  8. The National Council of Churches have all but erased the dividing line between Catholics and Protestants. God bless Martin Luther, but unfortunately his movement was little more than a flash in the pan. It didn't take long for the Protestants to begin compromising on their beliefs in the scriptures. Here we are talking about Catholics and Protestants as though they are the root of the problem. But that is not really at all true. Our fight is not against people. Our warfare is spiritual and the enemy is the devil. Remember where Paul came from and where he ended up? I doubt if there is a Catholic or Protestant alive today that is any worse than Paul was on the road to Damascus. He turned out OK!
  9. Very well said. There are many other institutions besides the RCC that are causing problems. Having said that, there is a fundamental question. Does the RCC set the morality for the Boy Scouts to follow, or does the Boy Scouts determine the morality of the RCC? I think in general the RCC is far and away more influential in defining the values and mores of Western culture than any other factor. The RCC doctrine has permeated the fabric of society such that there is not an institution or individual who is immune from it's influence. Whether or not someone likes Trump is one thing, but the fact is Trump is the way he is largely because of his upbringing, which upbringing was colored by RCC doctrine. It simply can't be avoided. It is in the very air we breath. Some react negatively and other positively, but either way, the actual scriptures most definitely take a back seat to the RCC doctrine. We are the way we are as a country largely because of that. It's not uncommon to hear someone say Christianity has caused untold problems in this world. The question becomes is it really Biblical Christianity or some other factor? Suffice it to say, if society actually followed scripture it would be a vastly different society. It would be much better. For starters the hate that is becoming more endemic in the world would vanish. The Bible never says to hate someone, so if their is hate it comes from some other source.
  10. Yes indeed, there are many opinions. Why? I can't imagine. The words are plain as day so I don't see where opinion comes into the picture. After all, there is nothing complicated in the words or sentence structure of the verses themselves. They say what they mean and mean what they say. Is the sky blue because it is actually blue or because it is my opinion that it is blue? There seems to be some unwritten law that the scriptures must be complicated. God Himself says in many places that His word is easy to understand and He wants us to know, not guess. I may not have seen it, but I don't think anybody mentioned the next few verses. Acts 20:10-12, 10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing [him] said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed. 12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted. It sure seems relevant to me. Kind of the point of the whole narrative, i.e. nothing is impossible with God! Trying to make it a commentary on how long sermons should be seems to miss that wonderful truth altogether.
  11. 2Cor 12:7, And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. There are many ideas as to what Paul's thorn was. Some say sickness, others say blindness, speech problems, epilepsy and other scripturally unsubstantiated claims. Clearly, whatever it was, Paul's thorn in the side was from the devil to hinder him in his work, but otherwise this verse gives no specifics. It would be better to say, "I don't know" than to guess. A good question might be, has this idea of thorns come up anywhere else in scripture? If so, we may get a better idea on the nature of Paul's thorn. Fortunately, it is used in a few other places that make it plain as to what God means by a "thorn in the flesh." Num 33:55, But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Josh 23:13, Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out [any of] these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. Judg 2:3, Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them (people) out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. By allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves, it is evident that when God uses the word "thorn' in all of these verses, He is speaking of people, specifically people who are counter to the truth of God's word. I would say that Paul certainly had his share of people working against him and his work of speaking the truth. No guesswork or conjecture are needed!
  12. I myself would have been burned at the cross a mere 500 years ago because much of my belief is counter to the RC doctrine. That sends chills up my spine whenever I think of it. But that's beside the point. As Bible believing Christians we need to pray for every Roman Catholic, including their priests, bishops, cardinals, and even the pope. We also need to speak the word to them whenever possible. I find in general that a Roman Catholic is at least open to hearing the scriptures which is a lot more than can be said about most other people. I myself went to Catholic school for 12 years with 1 hour of religion classes 5 days a week. I got nothing less than an "A" the entire time. I knew the verbiage well enough, but it didn't get me saved. Someone spoke God's word to me one day (not the Catechism) and I was born again in no time. God can save to the uttermost!
  13. I can't imagine how an institution with such a tarnished history, past and present, manages to stay relevant. Kevin Spacey apparently forced himself sexually upon a few innocent victims. For that he was blackballed and his life utterly ruined. I was involved in a ministry whose leader was caught having sexual relations with a few women. It spelled the end of that otherwise very godly ministry. Now I don't condone what Kevin or my old minister did, but why do they get so castigated while the RC, who've committed far more egregious sins, goes on filling her coffers more and more each Sunday morning? And I'm not even speaking to the butchering of the scriptures they've caused in the church. That is the worse thing they've done and the news is silent in that regard. I think one thing to keep in mind is it is not any individual Catholic who is at fault. It is rather an institutional problem. The people only know what they've been taught. Even the priest are only speaking the things they learned in seminary. They need to hear the truth of God's word if anything is to change. Speak the word in love.
  14. As far as God is concerned we are very much united. Eph 2:18-22, 18 For through him we both (Jew & Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. We simply don't see the total greatness of what Jesus Christ accomplished by his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. 1Cor 13:12, For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean God is not good to His promises. We are being built together whether we know it or not, or whether we believe it or not. We have nothing to do with it, any more than we saved ourselves and somehow caused Christ to dwell within us (Col 1:27). God did that for us through the work of His son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Our hope (which will absolutely be fulfilled) is that when Christ reappears to gather us together the scales of blindness will fall away and we will be able to see with crystal clarity all that God has done for us. I'm sure we will all be surprised, and pleasantly so, when we finally see the true greatness of what God has done for us. At least I know I'll learn a few things I've been wrong about. What a day that will be!
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