canada

The opening topic is ... futurism.

Perhaps the "offending" parties could communicate their concerns by private message rather than having to shut down the thread by a moderator. As "futurism" the thread was getting much comment ... and interesting I thought.

For those who believe in "futurism", I believe it is mainly because of the excitement and sensationalism of their futurist interpretations. I know, as I was hooked, line and sinker into that thought for my first ten years of research into Revelation ... my books by those type of authors stacked as high as myself. Jesus, in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years of His ministry) caused the need for the sacrifices to cease by the one time sacrifice of Himself ... it is finished ... not on and on and on as in Romanism.

Charlie ... for someone not having studied Revelation yet ... you have hit the nail on the head. PS ... within the walls of Vatican City, they have their own currency for buying and selling. However, I believe there is no charge for bowing down to, and kissing the foot of the huge bronze statue of "peter". So many have done this that the toe is near worn off.

Starise, some one else is checking for "fighting" ... if I did, it was unintentional as I have never done that before.

Sower ... God says "come out of her". I believe you truly have "come out of her".

If you do not recognize the beast ... are you prepared?

Sower ... I believe the blood of Jesus trumps all that Darkness. Do you still make the mark with the right hand since leaving the Church of Rome? Do you still participate in the ritual of Ash Wednesday? If not, I believe HIS blood washes you clean from these traditions.

Starise said: “So how do you see the mark of the beast and/or on the forehead? How would you say this has already happened? Thanks.” It is so obvious ... yet we are blind to see it. At the baptism of the infant follower of Romanism, the priest dips his right hand into the font and with his thumb places the mark upon the forehead of the infant. On Ash Wednesday, the priest places his right hand into the ashes and with his thumb places the mark upon the forehead of the adult follower of the beast. This is where the term “being under the thumb of Rome” is derived from. And how is a Roman Catholic identified? . By making the mark with his right hand ... not the left. When God destroys Vatican City, it will be an ever burning witness to the world of its corruption and distortion of God’s Word that no one will buy into the religion of Rome except those that already possess the mark. Romanism will no longer be able to sell their brand of religion, except to those that already possess the mark. This will likely fall upon deaf ears ... until God destroys Vatican City.

The historicist view does not say that "all has been fulfilled" ... that is "full preterism" or "partial preterism. It was Sir Isaac Newton (who wrote more on prophecy than his scientific studies) said ... we are not to become prophets (a form of futurism) but rather to recognize the event when it comes to pass. The ten nation alliance out of Europe did come to pass in recent years and its member nations summed at 666. The "false prophet" did come to pass in the form of the Vatican hierarchy ... the meaning of Vatican is from the word "vatic" which means "prophet or prophecy". The papacy does "cause fire to come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men" but most do not recognize the fire, and note that the fire does not come from heaven above, but rather from "heaven on the earth" ... ie Vatican City. A pope in recent years titled name summed at 666 in three different languages and fulfilled the prophecy of Rev 6:2 ... the rider on white horse with crown and bow. The futurist "watchmen" were asleep on their watch. However, this will likely not be believed until God destroys Vatican City (Mystery, Babylon) and then futurists will be in chaos saying ... where is the image, mark and numbered beast? this was all supposed to happen prior to the destruction of Vatican City ... according to futurism.

I believe the Vatican hierarchy is the "false prophet". The word "vatic" means ... prophet or prophesy. Each and every pope is considered to be the living speaking "image" of peter. Peter died ... yet comes back to life as the papal "peter".

To the Jewish Christian, there are ... 51 books. 24 in the "elder" testament and 27 in the NT. The 24 books of the "older" testament could be the 24 "elders" of Revelation.

Well stated truth abcdef.

Many students of prophecy believe this "he" is the counterfeit Christ, riding the white horse in Rev 6:2. The "bow" is not a weapon (toxon) but rather simple fabric or twined wreath. Continue to study like the rest of us.

Those who believe some has been fulfilled and some has not is also referred to as ... historicism. As noted in the WCF the papacy is anti christ.

Well stated Josheb ... very informative.

It would be foolish to overlook the mathematics of God.

So much for your interpretation of the victors singing the Song of Moses ... and the rider on the first white horse with crown and bow. I have nothing further to say to you, other than: Blessings brother.

I often think upon the "new song" noted in Revelation.

Keras ... regarding "interpretation" you stated in part ... "That you (canada) and many reject it, or cannot understand it, is because of belief in the many false theories around today." Most futurist are looking for the excitement and sensationalism of hyper literal interpretation. I do not know, but might you be among those? Or, are you among the victors over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name? Rev 15:3. If so, you would be among those of historicism. Those victors sing the Song of Moses (Deut 32) ... part of your answer will be found in the lyrics of that song. Also, the rider on the first white horse with crown and bow was fulfilled in recent years. Rev 6:2. Did you recognize it, or are you still expecting that to be a future event?

So Keras ... you do fit into the system of interpretation called futurism ... I suspected you did. The luxury of futurism is that they can predict whatever they wish ... as long as it never comes to pass, how can they be proven wrong ... it is always "going to happen". It was Sir Isaac Newton (who wrote more on Bible prophecy than his scientific studies) said ... we are not to become prophets (a form of futurism) but rather, to recognize the event when it comes to pass (historicism).

... ... ... ... and the things which shall be hereafter. "ALL" is not past.

Keras ... of the systems of interpretation of Revelation ... full preterism (heretical, all prophecy fulfilled) partial preterism, most fulfilled. Historicism, some past and some future. Futurism, most future and Idealism. Which of these systems do you fit best into? And, do you believe the papacy is antichrist?

Historicism does not place all prophecy into the past. You note fact and fiction ... please point out what is fiction and what shows an SDA bias ... as Historicism existed long before SDA existed.

I was a futurist for the first ten rears of research into Revelation. I fell, hook line and sinker for the "Late Great Planet Earth". My books by futurist authors stacked almost as high as myself. I have been an historicist for the last 30 years ... not that they have all the answers, but believe they are much closer to the truth. If only believers would understand the truth of Daniel 9:27 being about Y'shua.