mlssufan01

in my 30's, I went to mental health following the initial incident; the general consensus is that i had an episode, I was put on medications; but it was not enough to label as an official mental illness. I have been to churches prior to these 2; and only one afterwards. I did enjoy the last one while I was there; and was really the only church without a significant issue to cause me harm (I left due to work, not due to any issues). Again, I really have no info to give on the 2nd church. The pastor's reasoning in the 1st church was he "wanted to give me the space I need to move forward." again, seemed coded, and at best all I can think of was that since his family outright ended the friendship abruptly, it would be awkward and uncomfortable to be in a smaller setting; but that still begs the question why the need for the abrupt ending. My only inkling is because i am annoying; but i don't really find that to be an acceptable behavior of a pastor.

so...i cannot rally give you any information on the 2nd church; as i'm really at a loss as to where this came from; and the churches are so far apart it wouldn't really make sense for my former pastor to contact that pastor--it would be extremely surprising if they were in any way correlated. For the 2nd church, there was no small group or younger crowd or anything; I was actually very cautious about getting too involved; and pretty much laid low for my entire tenure there. As for the 1st church- you can probly find older posts on the matter...but a brief synopsis is that, at the time of the incident the pastor's children were all college age (18-25) and the pastor's son insulted me by saying i was barely tolerable; followed by a complete unexpected cutoff--which resulted in my first and only mental health episode---basically schizophrenic bipolar--and due to hallucinations, turned myself into the police thinking I did something wrong. So, in the very least...I at least tried to make sense of the situation there by telling myself that is why they won't speak to me; but the reality is they had an issue before that episode. Again, the one common denominator here I just want to know why I am always the reject, always the one cast aside, always feeling like I did something wrong; and yet nobody can ever tell me, no matter how hard I search.

well...first and foremost...if he could tell me, directly, why he feels the way he does...this would go a long way in resolving the problem. Secondly--if he were to write a review of my behavior---this would go a long way in doing one of 2 things: a). teaching me where my behavior is wrong or b). result in him being shown he is wrong about my behavior. This is a very big difference between from meeting with him; pointing out his behavior of insulting and abandoning; him acknowledging the sin; but then doing nothing; and then when I have asked what my offenses were, and to be given no clear answer, yet remain in punishment. I do not know the reason for the restrictions; he gave some vague christian-ized answer like "it's hard to love your neighbor when you don't love yourself." Really, i think the main caveat behind all of my frustration is I just want to know what I did wrong, if anything.

I am allowed to main service and men's breakfast...that's it...no bible studies or other small groups. I don't agree with disturbing worship; for one I would be uncomfortable anyway; but also my personal issue with the pastor should not disturb the worship of other individuals; however then again Jesus did tell us to go and be reconciled before we offer our gift at the altar...so in that regards I would say it would be sinful for the pastor to continue preaching when he is the one unwilling to repent and reconcile. Still; I would not find it wise to be disruptive in that manner.

the pastor has children in their late 20's and early 30's; so in essence we are all adults.

actually this is a new church , different place, very similar thing, different people. maybe what's bothering me is I don't know what i'm doing wrong and nobody can tell me what I'm doing wrong. *edit...well new in the sense of different from the previous one; i was at this one for about 3 years now.

right, i agree...that was basically the crux of the first message...i exhausted every option in terms of reconciliation--went directly...got nowhere...brought a third party...when that happened the pastor spoke in code and really didn't let me get much in; and the assistant pastor who was the third party just said he didn't really understand what the problem was and so just sort of left it; even though I explained that I had been essentially verbally insulted and then cut off with no explanation and still not getting any explanations; but i think the assistant pastor was probably just trying to keep his job tbh, but that's just speculation; and he really didn't do anything wrong imo. Just seems very shady thats all.

If you have had an offense with the pastor; and exhausted every possibility of working things out; have been told you didn't do anything wrong; and have still been exempt from attending certain services; and been blocked by the pastor and his family--at that point do I make the public aware of what happened (probably through an online review service like google or yelp)? I would be lying if I said I wasn't angry; there is a part of me that is; but I'm honestly more upset that I don't even think they think they did anything wrong (i.e. verbally insulting me; abandoning me), and the assistant pastor just sort of avoids everything cuz he doesn't really know what happened, and when we did talk; the pastor talked in code so that the truth wouldn't come out. but anyways; I wrestle with this because I really do care about them, but is it really loving for me to just let them go scott free? Part of me feels like it isn't wise to let people live under that leadership knowing that the pastor could just one day just cut people off with no discussion, no warning--if you've ever experienced that from anyone, it's an emotional trauma like no other; especially from someone you were close with.

A few rhings on this: No, it isn't directly tied to that. It is tied to almost every broken relationship I see never ever being reconciled. 2nd...to clarify...the pastor's daughter was not underage during our fallout, nor was there any sexual misconduct...these are very slanderous statements...at worst we had a frowned upon online friendship....thirdly....I am not excommunicated from any church...only allowed in limited capacity; and became confused due to conflicting statements and actions. In any case, this post isn't directly caused by that situation.

lol...no, no it wouldn't starve the lust. I am telling you this as someone who struggles with it. In fact after a bout with mental health I decided blocking those site on the internet would be wise. It did not eliminate my temptation because sin is not originated externally, it is originated in the human heart. Was I going out of my way to search for images? No. Was I awkwardly staring at women in church? No. In fact, I did a pretty good job of hiding it. But when alone, the struggle is still there, probably even more intensely then when I had access to those blocked sites. Now, is it wise to enter a sinful-themed shop overtly explicit things to trigger my temptations? of course not. But I am to avoid it altogeter? actually...I would argue no, for 2 reasons. Firstly, Jesus went into the desert TO BE TEMPTED. Though He would not sin. If going into a temptation is a sin, then you're calling Jesus a sinner...and that can't be possible. Secondly, especially in the area of lust...it is virtually impossible to go anywhere without being tempted. Walk down the street, see a woman in lewd clothing. Maybe I work in a mall (I did for a bit); how many Victoria's Secret images you think I saw? Could I even possibly go to the beach? Then you add the shear disobedience of Christians when it comes to premarital sex, 65% willfully engaging in it without any conviction (I don't support this view, but it can raise a lot of "why" questions). For lust, to avoid it altogether would be t never leave your house and never associate with anybody. And this is why I say avoiding temptation is nigh impossible. In fact, in Genesis, God said that the thoughts and intentions of man's heart are evil continually, all day long.

Man will be tempted whether you put him somewhere or he goes somewhere. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to destroy. Nobody is exempt from temptation. You can take the cake away from the table but eventually I have to go to the grocery store where there's cake. In fact...actually personal application here...if I struggle with lust but do not act should I then not go to church because I will be tempted by females who are there? pretty wrong if you ask me.

So, this would go back to the original posts--wherein I actually acknowledged anomaly situations such as these (abuse, rape) wherein I stated that I would agree reconciliation would not be wise in these specific cases of extreme sins; my original intent was more to the point where there has not been such extreme sin. Even then i still struggle to know for sure as Paul instructed the completely immoral man in Corinth to be reconciled (keep in mind, Corinth was known for it's extremely unbiblical sexual immorality). My case is largely based on the statisticsnthat the instructions of reconciliaton is the most disobeyed Scripture in the Bible; and from what I've seen, while SOME of it is due to extreme sin like the one you mention; the vast majority is out of pettiness and/or unforgiveness of the less extreme sins---and this is where I have the problem.

The problem with this statement is..the Holy Spirit DID tell you to do it...through Jesus...in the Sermon on the Mount; and again, through Paul, in Corinthians; and again, in Titus; and again, through Paul, in Galatians; and again, through Paul, in Ephesians.

I want to stress something deeply ingrained in me....by the logic most of you have been using...I would argue that if we practice forgiveness this way; we will never ever be effective in sharing the Gospel. For the Gospel forgives the worst of sins and brings back to reconciliation. When sin becomes too grievous for us to associate with; we have ultimately said the other party is not worthy of our love. Paul murdered other Christians then preached to their families. Jesus knew Judas would betray him to the most grievous act in history and yet still dined with him as friend. In fact, it was after the mention of the betrayal that Jesus called him friend (whether or not they were after I could not tell you; I don't think we're given enough details).

"like they don't have a history you should be aware of." in other words; you are still holding them responsible for their past sins. My original sentiment was for someone who is clearly repentant; who made a mistake and owned up to; I am not referring to the person who is still living in the sin. Also they never were perfect, never will be, and none of us will be...it is unfair to hold such an expectation.

Cases like this one and similar (abuse, sexual misconduct) are the anomaly cases where I would tend to agree it isnt wise to reconcile. But I would still venture to guess there is some unforgiveness; even if you say you've forgiven. I do understand that they are not "exactly" the same; but I also cannot see how the two can truly be separated. As mentioned; God never forgives without reconciling...this is how He love and therefore i cannot justify my unwllingness to reconcile when God will always take me back if I repent.

how many times have we abused God's trust? Yet He forgives us and reconciles with us. I really cannot fathom how forgiveness and reconciliation can be separated. There is not one single instance I'm aware of where God forgives without reconciling or reconciles without forgiving. To me if someone's sin causes you to walk away I would be more apt to consider whether you have truly forgiven them; for it is like you remembering this bad thing about them, resulting in a consequence of ended friendship, directly tied to the sin (if indeed sin was the cause of broken relationship)

do you feel guilty for being the person not willing to reconcile when the other party is sincere in wanting to make things work? particularly in a friendship.

Uhh I have tangible evidence, in the form of my facebook, in regards to the liking and birthday commenting.

A). I'm not stalking anybody. B). I've been to counseling, many times.

lol the last comment was merely a reply to the video Justin shared...I know he was trying to help, and it seemed to contain a different topic to this thread altogether, so only asked him for clarity on the intent of the video's message, as I perhaps did not seem to grasp the intended meaning of the video's message.

I'm not sure I understand, correct me if I'm wrong...it just seems a largely drawn out way of saying God is omniscient/all-knowing; but I'm not sure how that directly relates to this situation in an applicable way. There also seems to be a lot about predestination here, which is more on the doctrine of grace and salvation, which I think is quite different than the topic at hand involving severed relationships between a pastor and parishioner or two Christian brothers/sisters, whether justified or not. I would offer though, that broken relationships are the best way I've been able to explain reconciliation between God and man, God and man being separated...however it is different in that it is always the man who sins and not God...but that's getting tangential.

Dang...I didn't even put those 2 together... but that being said, I still don't think I said anything completely false. But it could explain why I perceive their boundary as an attack on me. But I do think there is so much to this story, so I don't think I'm creating a new story, more as saying it from a different perspective. I am fully aware some of the incident that played out could have made the girl and family uncomfortable...but even so, my issue here is just wanting to forget them and move on....which, all things considered, does seem to be an improvement from past posts. All I'm saying is I followed everyone's advice...and it doesn't seem to work to be able to move on.

if you read my post...all the advice you have said here I have done. I haven't contacted them (other than the 2 meetings with the pastor), and I have blocked them as you have said, and I never went back to that church. This post isn't about us reconciling, it's about me not being able to to remove them from my memories. Also, the pastor never said to "drop the matter." The last time I expressed my concern, which was a long time ago, and even blatantly gave him the out when I said, "if your family would like no contact, I would respect it;" he did not acknowledge that statement--when I gave him that statement he said he would like to "give me the space I need to move forward" but then offered to have coffee.....in other words---it's a lot of mixed signals over and over.

I've done everything I can. I had a 5-year friendship with a pastor's family, and I loved them so much. Looking back, I foolishly had an online friendship with one of the pastor's daughters (I stress friendship, we never crossed any serious lines), and after 5 years, I was just cut off, she and her sister ignored me and blew me off at church, and their brother approached me to tell me I was "barely tolerable." This triggered symptoms of schizo bipolar, including paranoia, hallucinations, depression. I only spoked with her father twice since then...and it just leaves me more confused. He says there's no animosity, but then says I'd only be allowed to certain services...and then his family woul partially block me on some platforms, but then some would still like my facebook posts---it was infuriating. Reluctantly, at the advice of many, I finally blocked them...but I think about them all the time. It's torture. I tried the worst thing for 7 months as a result of everything I lost as a result of this church; I only take solace in the fact I haven't tried suicide in quite some time and I've drastically improved my life since then...but not a day goes by I don't think about them. I don't live near them anymore, so I don't even know why I want to reconcile, but I can't help my natural tendencies. I just want to forget everything...and I just don't know how.