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Mal'ak

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  1. Well by quoting Matthew Chapter 25 you have proven you cherry pick, that is probably the worse Chapter to point to for your case. But even in your cherry picking to prove a tradition of man, you missed something. Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: As Jesus said "John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." Jesus is the truth and he preached much more then "believe me and Love", this is the milk of the Word of God, the basics. Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Matthew 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: Matthew 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. But why picking Matthew 25 is a bad idea, is that the rest of the chapter says the complete opposite of what you are saying. The first parable in the chapter is the virgins; five were wise and learned and prepared themselves by Studying the Word of God on how to be Christians, while the five foolish did nothing and said "all I need to do is believe" but when Jesus came they were rejected and he did not know them. So having the gift of faith, being a "virgin", is not enough if you do not have the oil to burn your spiritual "light" in the world. Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Of course you made sure to say "after verse 30", most Christians hate this parable. Because while the virgin parable talks about learning how to be a Christian and walking a righteous path, the servants and traveling master parable talks about needing works or you will be "cast...into outer darkness". All three parables say they will be rejected, not just the last parable about the stranger, hungry, etc. So with all three parables of Chapter 25: 1. Learn how to be righteous, to prepare yourself for Jesus's coming. 2. Do works 3. Help and comfort others.
  2. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Exactly. Like the conversation I was having with 'other one', which believes you just need to believe in Jesus and love God/Neighbor as the only two things in the entire Word of God to follow. I do not believe that idea or not following the sabbath will put you in Hell of course, since we can repent of our sin, but as you pointed out many of these Christian babes will be least in Heaven. Which is fine, that is their measure, and better to be least in Heaven then to be lord in Hell. When we talk about being "least" in Heaven, the scripture that points to this is our spiritual clothing. Jesus being perfect and God, is "clothed with a garment down to the foot", which means there is no skin showing on his spiritual body. As we see in 2 Corinthians we as Christians want spiritual clothing so we are not found "naked", in Revelation 3 we learn that those that overcome and found in the Book of Life to gain eternal life will be "clothed in white raiment". Lastly in Revelation 16 we learn the importance of spiritual clothing for those that did not watch and prepare themselves will lose their garments and be naked to show their "shame", which spiritual nakedness being the shame of not doing what we are suppose to do here on Earth we can conclude when Jesus talks about "least" in Heaven it will be those with little clothing. So while someone like Paul the Apostle will be in eternity with a white robe covering most of his body, others that didn't do as they were suppose too but still went to Heaven as they were not evil will be in eternity with the shame of being naked or maybe wearing a loin cloth.
  3. Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. The idea of the "old" law giving you a false security and not applying is completely false, as told by Jesus himself in Matthew 5. Again, like every cop out of the new age of Christianity, you will say Jesus was speaking to the Jews so Matthew 5 does not apply to Christians. There is a couple mistakes there; 1. All of Jesus ministry was to the Jews, as he said "Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." His ministry was first to Israel, then after he died he commanded the Apostles to spread his ministry to the gentiles, but the ministry the apostles spread was not different then what Jesus shared with the Jews. 2. The "new laws" are taken out of context, as he is explaining the mind set of the New Covenant, "Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Not that we are suppose to forget the law or not follow it, but as you said in a way, if you love God and neighbor you will not sin against them. But the problem where you don't reach the full meaning, is that we as humans are born ignorant with no understanding or knowledge, so how do we know how to love God or neighbor? How do we know what is good? John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. I guess the real question is do you read the Bible? If you read the Bible, why, if nothing in the Bible relates to you any more? Jesus spent his entire life giving us commandments, parables, guidelines. But that was all for the Jews, which they were suppose to follow for 30 years then forget, but we as Christians are suppose to follow 2 commandments "love God and love your neighbor" without context or meaning to how to love them. You see these forms filled with people confused on how to be Christians that do use the Word of God, imagine the chaos if Jesus said "love" and died and we have to figure everything out ourselves. It is once again...absurd. As we have things explained by John "2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it." Also by Paul explaining the same in, "Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Why do we need to study, if we can just "love" and by "loving" we will be holy? Couple of reasons we need to study, as stated before, so we can know who is good and what is evil. "1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.", so we learn from John we all sin, even as Christians we will sin how can we avoid sin if we are not studying the Word of God to know what we are suppose to do? Clearly we can not just live by Love, because in the flesh we are naturally drawn to sin, "Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
  4. So you are suggesting Christians are not suppose to follow the Ten Commandments? That we should murder people, take the Lord's name in vain, worship idols? Since we are cherry picking what laws we have to follow, it would be nice if there was a list of laws we can break now that we have the "free pass" of grace that gives us a liberty and license to willfully sin...of course I am being sarcastic, it is completely absurd to think someone can call themselves a Christian, but at the same time murder and cheat on their spouse. Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
  5. Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. We are told to keep the sabbath "for ever", as it says in verse 17. The sabbath "is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you". It is a sign of the Convent between the Father and his people, and there is a punishment for defiling it. Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Some may say that Exodus is only speaking of the Jews, but for those that have studied the Word of God, they know that "Israel" was never just a flesh bloodline or religion. Israel stands for the chosen of God, as Paul talks about the spiritual "adoption", all the chosen of God are the "children of the promise" of salvation. So the Sabbath stands for spiritual Israel now, just as it did for flesh Israel in the Old Testament. Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: I saw one reply to the post about Colossians, but it was taken out of context. The "meat...drink...holyday...new moon...sabbath" all had ceremonies and Temple sacrifices according to the "ordinances" of the Old Testament, but there is a different in the Law of God between ordinances and Commandments. You can touch a dead body without needing to purify yourself, but you still can not murder or commit adultery. Sabbath is a Commandment given by God himself to his chosen people, they way we practice and keep the sabbath is different now but still a Commandment. As Jesus said "Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
  6. Then you are not reading Revelation chapter 20, it says it very plain. Where are the Billions of souls that are on Earth, once Jesus comes does he do something with them? Because there is no evidence of that, they can not go to Hell, because Hell is empty at this point since everyone in Hell will be coming to Earth when satan comes down. "Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." Normally I would ask if you want to discuss the Word of God have at least a couple verses to support your point of view, but you have no verses, because there is not one verse in the entire Bible that supports the non-Christians have their own "rapture" to...who knows where. But for those that might be reading this that care about scripture, and base their beliefs on scripture instead of opinions and church dogma.... Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. "dead" are the non-believers, they are spiritually dead because at this point they are going to the Lake of Fire unless they choose Jesus as their Savior. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The Christians are part of the "first resurrection", which means they received their crown of life when Jesus returns. While the "dead" do not have their crown of life, so they have to wait for the second resurrection which is the White Throne. We are even told what the Christians will be doing, "they shall be priests of God and of Christ". If there are no non-believers why will there need to be "priests", who is the Christians going to teach the Word of God too, other Christians? Of course not, they will be priests ministering to the "dead" or non-believers as they "reign" with Jesus. Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. After the thousand years satan will be released from his prison to "deceive the nations...of the earth", obviously he is not going to be deceiving the Saints to turn against Jesus after they received their crown of life in the first resurrection...so...who is the "nations...on the earth"? Easy if you use common sense and the Holy Spirit, they are the "dead" which were being taught by the Saints for the thousand years and satan coming to deceive them is their test to see if they choose Jesus or satan. Christians had their trial of faith during the flesh age of man, those of the second resurrection will have their trial of faith when satan is released from his prison after the thousand years. Those that follow satan and prove they are evil, they will attack the camp of the saints and Jesus, then God the Father will stop them. Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. At this point satan has done the task he has been granted, being the accuser and is no longer needed for that role, being already judged long before man was created he and the false prophet will be the first to die the second death in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Again the "dead" are brought before God during the White Throne of Judgment, not the Christians, the book of life is opened and all of the "dead" are judged by their works. There will be new believers that were taught by the Saints during the thousand years, and after they did not follow satan when he was released. There will also be those that did follow satan, and showed they didn't really chose Jesus as their savior. But all of them will be judged by their works by the Father, and those that are not found in the book of life will be killed in the Lake of Fire. There is no interruption in Revelations 20, it is not a parable, you either have eyes to see or not. I just break down the verses to help people understand, but the truth is there without me adding a word to it.
  7. There is no post...pre...mid....there is only the truth, everyone alive when satan comes will be here on Earth, then when Jesus comes everyone will remain on Earth during his thousand year reign...just that the Christians will reign with Jesus, while the non-believers are being taught the truth so they will have a chance to avoid the second death of the White Throne. Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
  8. Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. "let both grow together until the harvest....gather ye together first the tares", the wicked get gathered first...which is receiving the mark of the beast Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. We are told when the Christians will be gathered, "Immediately after the tribulation....they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds.....they shall gather together his elect". Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: "When the Son of man shall come....before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another". Says it many times by Jesus himself, the rapture said to happen before the tribulation...never said once in the Bible, just one "caught up to the clouds" used out of context by Paul where if you read the entire context even says when Jesus returns "1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." As Paul said "we which are alive and remain", and the "trump" is the seventh trumpet or last trumpet in Revelations when Jesus returns. Scared Christians not trusting God, do not want to be here during the Tribulation so as God himself said "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth"
  9. The Flood is an example to us, to explain the great tribulation. There will be no rapture is what Jesus is saying, and when the anti-Christ comes we need to watch for it so we can no be deceived. Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus never gave a history lesson in all his time on Earth, he did not come to be a History teacher or a prophet of flesh events, he came to bring the Word of God and to prepare us for the great tribulation. Christians point to "its a history lesson and Jesus was bored preaching about God, so he did some fun Q&A about flesh events", that is just a cop out because Christians do not want to call Jesus a liar but at the same time rather believe their church beliefs then the Word of God. Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. During the end times, there will be false prophets and will deceive many to turn away from God and even the non-believers to start to worship satan. But it clearly says "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved". So there will be Christians on Earth at this time that need to endure this, the non-believers are not going to endure false teachings and be saved obviously. Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. After the kingdom of satan, babylon, is setup on earth and the false prophet has been tricking people then according to the prophecy of Daneil that is when satan will come down himself. While satan is here on Earth physically, we are told to "flee into the mountains". Which means we are not to fight or attack satan, but to lay low and endure the lies until Jesus comes. But if there is any doubt, Jesus himself says in verse 22 "but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". So in the original plan of God it was going to be a longer time period, but not even the Christians could endure satan face to face that long, so the time satan is on Earth will be shortened so we can hold out and not worship him as God. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. We are told when the Christians will be gathered, "Immediately after the tribulation....they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds.....they shall gather together his elect". Which works with the thief, we need to learn about the end times and watch for it so we don't worship satan when he comes thinking he is Jesus. The ten virgins is the same, staying pure and "virgins" spiritually by not receiving the mark of the beast before Jesus comes and opens the door to them up at the Temple that will be in the clouds during the 1,000 year reign. 2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
  10. Like Jesus said, narrow is the way to Heaven and few find it, the reason is because there are scary hard truths that come with Christianity. John in the book of Revelations described the fulfillment of the faith as sweet as honey in your mouth, but sour in your belly. The reason is simple he was brought by the spirit to the Lord's Day at the end, he saw paradise and how happy everyone was and it was sweet. But then he looked to the left and saw all those damned souls about to go to the Lake of Fire, crying and weeping as they are about to be spiritual killed in the second death, the scene made the promise of eternity sour. This scares people that are weak in faith and Churches do not want to lose followers, so since the days of Jesus' death pastors have been preaching lies to comfort Christians that makes everything easy. "You don't need works, we are saved only by Grace", not what the Bible says James 2:20. "Once the Holy Spirit enters you God changes your heart so you no longer sin", not want the Bible says 1 John 1:10. "do not worry about the Tribulation, we will be raptured away", not what the Bible says 1 Thessalonians 5:1-8. "You can not lose your salvation", not what the Bible says Ezekiel 3:20, Matthew 25:30, Revelation 3:11. Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. If you do not forgive others, the Heavenly Father will not forgive you of your sins. So when you die you will still have the sins corrupting you, and so you will not be able to enter Heaven. Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Example of an unforgivable sin, where if you blasphemy the Holy Ghost you are placed in the same grouping as satan and the demons, meaning you can not go to Heaven ever no matter what you do or how you try to be better it is game over. Christianity according to the Bible is as follows: 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Salvation is reserved in Heaven for you, but for now you must endure the trial of your faith so you can be found worthy of praise at the appearing of Jesus Christ. Who you never seen, but you love. What does it mean "ye love"? "John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." Keeping the faith means more then believing, means you show your love by following the commandments and words of Jesus. IE don't sin and repent if you do, do good works, be the light of the world, prepare for the end times, etc etc etc.
  11. Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not according to Jesus, there are good people and evil people, a good person can never truly be evil and an evil person can never truly be good. That is why Jesus tells us to look at people's actions, if you want to know if they are really good people, or evil people pretending to be good. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. There is a difference between being a sinner in the flesh, and being evil.
  12. There is no predetermined outcome for us, there is for this World. There is a difference there, the things in God's control he already has planned. That is not lacking in free will, that is like us getting up in the morning with a "to-do list" and doing it (the only difference is our plans can be changed because we don't control anything in life, whereas God has power over everything is he can make sure things are done). God knew he was going to create man, he knew man would be temped so he knew there had to be a law, he knew man would not be able to be perfect so he knew he would need to send Jesus Christ to die, and he knows some people are just evil so he will have a Judgement Day and Lake of Fire. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. The concept that confuses people, is not that God controls our actions, but that he knows everything is he already knows our choices and who we will be. That does not mean he made us that way or that he preplanned it, only that God knows everything from before creation to after. If it was predetermined, then God would never have created satan or the fallen angels because he knew they would turn evil, he also would never have created any of the wicked people. If there it was predetermined, he would create everyone he knew would go to eternity and the first day of creation would be the first day of eternal life and the flesh age would never have existed, but that is no fair or just to prejudge someone so the Father in his righteousness let it play out based on everyone's free will and after they show themselves to be evil he can judge them as he points to their life "See this evil you did? This is why you must die". Jeremiah 1:6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. Jeremiah 1:7 But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. When God spoke to Jeremiah, did he say 'Yes Lord God I will speak all you desire me too, because I feel and know I am destined to do this!' Not at all, Jeremiah refused to speak for God just as Moses refused to speak for God, then God got mad at them both "Say not, I am a child" for thou shall go to all that I shall send thee". That was God's nice way of saying, 'Don't you dare tell me no, do you know who you are talking too?!' God had to visit Jeremiah twice to convince him and show him that he could do it, and that God would be with him so there was nothing to fear. That is not predetermined as God did not snap his finger and Jeremiah turned into a robot 'Yes Lord, all you command I shall do!' Jeremiah 29:23 Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and am a witness, saith the Lord. God knows and is a witness of our actions, but he does not judge us before we do them. He knows it will happen, but he gives everyone a fair chance to choose him and to be good, but everyone has free will to be good or to be evil and after we make our choice we are judged so why the White Throne of Judgement is not until the end of this age when all has been said and done.
  13. "We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again." I understand the idea, but it does go against the Word of God. You take John 1:12-13 as meaning that when you became a Christian you are no longer having free will, that God has taken over your hearts and causing you to be Christians. But that defeats the entire point of this test called life, God can mind control satan to be holy and righteous so that he could enter eternal life. But God does not want an army of robots in eternity, he wants righteous people that have proven they love him and seek to be righteous no matter how hard it is. 1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. We are told by Peter that our faith will be tested, but if we endure we "might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ". Not because God is controlling us to be good, but because "whom having not seen, ye love: in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing". 1 peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1 peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 1 peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1 peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: We are told directly to "gird up the loins of your mind....as obedient children, not fashioning yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance...But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation....the Father, who...judgeth according to every man's work". The point is made clear here, we are not to live according to the "former lusts in your ignorance", which means John 1:12-13 is talking about those that received God into their lives was given "power" which is the Word of God as we are told the truth is our sword to fight evil, so once we learned the truth about God's Word we are to be "obedient" and follow it instead of returning to our sinful ways when we were in "ignorance". Peter himself says "the Father...Judgeth according to every man's work", that God does not care who you are or who you claim to be, all that matters to the Father is if you are living in righteousness and proving your faith is strong by your works. Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. In these Scriptures both Jesus and John are giving us the same teaching, that we are sinners and will fall short, so we need to "watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation". Nothing about God preventing us from falling into temptation, but telling us if we say we are Christians but do evil we are liars. But if we do our best to walk in the light, we will fall short and sin against God, but Jesus will forgive us as long as we confess our sins. Again the forgiveness of sins is not automatic, that God takes over our lives and as we mess up God keeps hitting us with automatic forgiveness. Part of seeking to be righteous is to acknowledge we did something wrong, confess it to God and ask for forgiveness in Jesus' name, then moving forward not do it again. Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Matthew 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. Matthew 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. I think this is one of the greatest parables when it comes to Grace vs Works, so we hear Jesus' words on the matter from himself. Jesus starts by explaining the Kingdom of Heaven in flesh terms, that Jesus Christ is the "man travelling into a far country", which of course is Jesus raising from the dead and going to Heaven to leave us to continue Christianity without him here physically. Then we are told Jesus "called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods", this is the calling of the faith and Jesus opening our eyes to become Christians, then giving us his goods which are the "Spiritual gifts" we are given like preaching, healing, helps, etc. "one he gave five...another two...another one; to every man according to his several ability", which the Word of God tells us the Father gives us knowledge and works based on our the measure we can handle, some Christians have lots of works and knowledge while others have less. Then we move on to our Christian walk in our lives, "he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents...but he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money....thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers", so with the gifts of the Spirit that we are given we are commanded by Jesus that we are suppose to use them to spread the Word of God and bring Glory to the Holy Father so we can receive the praise from Jesus on his return. But those that do not do God's work, but are too ashamed, when Jesus returns he will "take therefore the talent from him...and cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness". The hard truth is, if you have not lived by God's Word and do not have works when Jesus returns, he will take your "crown of life" and throw you with the non-believers during his thousand year reign.
  14. You have not proven anything, you said "white is not referred to in regards to describe evil, so all other scripture must be dismissed" that is complete nonsense. There are many times in the Bible that the Father explains things to us, but he uses completely different wording and examples to try and get the point across, so your entire "proof" is false. You have not proven anything about the time of the end, using symbolic numbers and times in Revelation is the same as saying real man size scorpions are coming to eat our brains, it is false and on top of that childish logic. On top of that Jesus said the time stated in Bible, even if they were real numbers, where shortened for our sake so we could handle the tribulation "Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." No where does it say what the Tribulation was shortened too, so again another false statement and nothing proven. Again with the 1st century, is another false doctrine, as you are rejecting the Word of Christ once again to fit your tradition of man. "Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Jesus tells us nothing of the prophecy will take place until the Word of God is preached to the entire world, so that everyone on the Earth has a chance to know Christ and it is fair. In the first century there were a few scattered churches only in the Roman Empire, because Paul only traveled through the Empire. Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. The context of the entire chapter six starts at chapter one, when John was brought "in the Spirit on the Lord's day". Which we known from many sources like Paul in Corinthians, the Lord's Day is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ", which they are still waiting for in the 1st century when Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthians. I was not going to reply, because I do not argue as the Holy Spirit does not dwell in arguments, but for the other's on this forum who might be deceived by your false "proof", I just wanted to make clear all your "proof" is just you saying Jesus Christ our Lord is wrong. For all others, we are not in the age of the seven seals, because Jesus himself said that the end time prophecies will be the greatest tribulation man has ever seen in the history of the world. Which is why the Father in his mercy shortened the days of the tribulation, but for some to suggest we have are in those times now is calling Jesus and the Father a liar, since how is it shortened when for thousands of years since the 1st century we humans have lived full lives? Did the Father cause every person to die at the age of 25? No, so how was it shortened so his promise could be fulfilled if we had to endure the seals for our entire life time for the last 2,000 years? The answer is, because the great tribulation has not started yet, and none of the seals are opened yet. The Father is not a liar, but men are.
  15. Oh so because the word "white" is not directly related to anything evil, so that means we have to dismiss all the other scripture? Makes no sense, you just want to be right but have no scripture, simple fact is "white horse" stands for Jesus Christ. But we are told Jesus will not come until after the tribulation and that there will be false Christs, so the first seal can not be Jesus as it describes the beginning of the tribulation and not the end. White: λευκός leukós, lyoo-kos'; from λύκη lýkē ("light"); white:—white. If you look at Rev 6 "white" in the Greek meaning of the original text, it has a root of "light" Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? If you studied the connection between Jesus and lucifer, you would know they are both called "morning star", they were both the princes of heaven before the rebellion. So there is a great deal of backstory of satan to suggest why him and his fallen angels might be considered "light". As all the demons before the rebellion, were angels of Heaven, and so too were angels of light dressed in white.
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