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The Light

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  1. Even more interesting is that we see people being gathered from both earth and heaven. Those gathered from the earth will include the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth as proven by the 144,000 1st fruits, which guarantees a harvest of the 12 tribes. Those gathered from heaven will be the dead in Christ and the alive Church that was removed from the earth in the pretribulation rapture. See Rev 5 for those that have been gathered out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation. Isaiah 45 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. The elect are both the Gentile Church that are gathered from heaven because they have been raptured there and the 12 tribes that are gathered from earth along with the gleanings of the Gentiles. Got an alternative theory that has any context, knowledge or logic? Matt 24 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Do you think that verse means that if Jesus did not shorten the days and return, there would be no one left alive on earth? The 12 tribes will understand when the Gentile church has been caught up. The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will be very aware of the timing of His coming. That day will not take them unaware. The man of sin will be revealed. There will be signs of the sun, moon and stars and their tribulation, the 70th week will be over. They will be looking up, their redemption will be drawing nigh. They will be waiting for the last trump. As for the Church, the goodman will not know what watch the thief will come. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Best be ready for the first trump.
  2. Then why the need to regraft the natural branches? It's all about timing. I have not seen any of this so called evidence. I have only seen a bunch of things taken out context and lacking knowledge. His people perish because of lack of knowledge. If you don't have any understanding of the Jewish feasts, you won't have much understanding what is to come. Rev 3 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
  3. I know that God is all about timing. In His timing the fullness of the Gentiles will be come in. In His timing, the scales will come off the Jews eyes. In His timing, there will be natural branches regrafted onto the olive tree. In His timing, there will be no Jew or Gentile. In His timing, there will be neither Jew nor Greek. Has that time occurred yet? Let me ask you, since the word says that there is neither male nor female are you saying that it is OKAY in Gods eyes for a man to marry another man and have relations? The problem replacement theology has is that everything is taken out of context to arrive at an incorrect conclusion. So again, let me ask you, since the word says there is neither Jew nor Greek and neither male nor female, is it okay for a man to marry another man in Gods eyes? I did read the full story. Here. Rom 11 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? It's all about timing and God will keep his word.
  4. When Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthians why did he not write another letter to the Corinthians to explain himself. Why didn't he say something like, "Hey, a lot of you have been asking what the last trump is. Don't worry, I think around 95AD the apostle John is going to have a revelation and he will write it down and explain what the last trump is." The Jews did not have to ask what the last trump is, as they knew that it is blown of the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah). The LAST TRUMP is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It is the right horn of the ram. The FIRST TRUMP is blown on Pentecost, it is the left horn of the ram. Paul did not need to explain what the last trump was as the Jews already understood what the last trump was. Later John comes along and writes the book of Revelation and it confuses the Gentile. The Jew was not confused. Your argument lacks knowledge and logic. Exactly. The Gentile at the 1st trump and the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth at the last trump. The remnant of the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God, IN A PLACE OF PROTECTION. Non of Gods people are appointed to His wrath. Totally agree. Your problem is that arguments that you correctly use against those that believe in a pretribulation rapture don't work against someone that understands that there is both a pretib rapture and post trib (pre wrath) rapture. The holy spirit is more prevalent in the west. Do you need further explanation? Your argument falls apart when we get to the bold. Luke 21 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
  5. I don't consider it adding to the resurrections, if there are resurrections. Any resurrections of the righteous are considered the 1st resurrection. I believe the dead in Christ will rise 1st, likely on Passover, the barley harvest. I believe that the pretibulation rapture will happen next, and it is the wheat harvest. This early summer harvest will likely occur on Pentecost. Of course, no one knows the day nor the hour. The harvest of the twelve tribes will like happen on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall fruit harvest. For reference we can see this harvest in Revelation 14.
  6. Your questions just gave the answers. The 100,000 believers that die each year should be enough proof. Now and the last 2000 years has been mostly about Gentiles. The exception was Jesus being sent to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came along and Peter got the word from the Lord to accept the Gentiles that the Gentiles were ministered to. The pretribulation rapture brings in the fullness of the Gentiles. Soon after that the 70th week will start and God will turn his attention to His people. Then at the end of the 70th week the post tribulation rapture will occur. As we can see by the 144,000 first fruits, the harvest will be the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. It's really just all about Gods plan, which He tells us about. The verses and timing are everywhere and yet you see nothing. The word says "seek and you will find" Are you seeking? Or have you turned a blind eye. God already tells you are not going to know when He comes and yet He tells us exactly when he will come. Two different events. Two different people, Gentiles and Jews. THAT'S WHY NO ONE CAN FIGURE IT OUT. One group, Gentiles, He says, SUMMER IS NIGH. One group of people, the Jews in the nation of Israel He says pray that your flight be not in the winter. Here we see the secret pretrib rapture in the early summer. Here's your timing. Song of Solomon 2 8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. 9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. 10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. Like I said, understanding that there is a post trib rapture sure doesn't prove that there will not be a pre trib rapture. The pre trib rapture is certainly no lie. If you knew nothing else, the feasts of Israel should tell you there is both a pretrib and post trib rapture. The battle is now. I suggest that you do as instructed. Watch and be ready, for in an hour that you think not, the son of man cometh.
  7. We see a group of people that are told that that day will not take them unaware. And yet we see that the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming. As usual, there is a reason for that contradiction. Yep, exactly. And yet there is a specific language on who will be harvested at the post tribulation rapture. That would be the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth as proven by 144,000 first fruits. Additionally there are plenty of ways to tell that there will be a pretrib rapture. Never made such a claim. The word says that Israel will be blind until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. When the pretribulation rapture occurs Israel will become jealous and there eyes will be opened. Rom 11 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. This is nothing I have said. I agree we are the seed of Abraham which has absolutely nothing to do with WHEN God remove the scales from Israels eyes. God clearly says UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles comes in blindness in part happened to Israel. Because God says that the salvation of the Gentiles provokes Israel to jealously. I only believe what the Word is saying and He says that we will not know when the master is coming. The twelve tribes and the gleanings of the Gentiles are told to look up their redemption draws nigh. Two different circumstances. Nothing I disagree with so I am not understanding what point you are trying to make. I certainly understand that two (Israel and Gentiles) will be brought into one fold, and yet they, for the most part, are not brought in at the same time which we can prove by the 144,000 first fruits of the coming harvest of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth.
  8. No your statement is incorrect. The mostly Gentile Church will escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass. They are in heaven along with the dead in Christ as they are raptured before the tribulation as we can see in Rev 5. As for the great multitude, this is the gathering that Paul speaks of that comes before THE WRATH OF GOD. This gathering includes the dead in Christ and the church that COME FROM HEAVEN and those that come from the earth - the twelve tribes that are alive and killed during the tribulation as well as the gleanings from the Gentile Church. Rev 5 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The elders can't be angels because angels are not priests that shall reign on the earth. Yes, those elders (people) cannot lie. They are saying thou wast slain and hast redeemed US TO God out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation. They are speaking for themselves AND those others that have been raptured. That is why they can say redeemed us out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation.
  9. The fourth rapture will be the rapture of the 12 tribes. Yes they are the tribulation saints but the fullness of the Gentiles will come in at the pre tribulation rapture. Scripture says that there are 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe. If we know the 1st fruits of a harvest, we know what will be harvested. This proves that the harvest will be the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. There will be tribulation Gentiles saved also, but they will be the gleanings of the field. Here is where you can find the fourth rapture in scripture. Mark 13 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. This is the gathering that Paul says will occur before the day of the Lord. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. The gathering from heaven is the dead in Christ and the pretribulation rapture church. The gathering from earth is the harvest of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth and the Gentile gleanings. Only the remnant in the nation of Israel that flee when the abomination of desolation is set up, go through the wrath of God.
  10. You can't seem to find it in scripture because the Lord tells you He is going to come when you think not. The Lord is obviously not going to spell out when he is coming. He tells you that. Why would there be shock and surprise that he is not spelling out when he is coming? Matt 24 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. IF the Lord spelled it out and gave you a clear indication of when He was coming most would just clean up their act right before He comes. And yet HERE He tells people EXACTLY when He is coming. Matt 24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. How is it that we have been told that He will come in an hour that we think not and He has also given us signs of His coming and said, WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, LOOK UP YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWS NIGH? And then in Luke we see Luke 21 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. In Luke we are told that we can escape all the things that will come to pass. Why are we instructed to look up when these things begin to come to pass? If we can escape all the things that will come to pass, how can we be here to see the things that begin to come to pass. Further, how can we escape all the things that come to pass and yet we see that immediately after the tribulation we see signs of his coming. That would mean that we went through the tribulation and did not escape all the things that would come to pass. If you are having trouble finding the pretrib rapture you might look here. Rev 5 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. These 24 elders that are speaking for those that are redeemed from every kindred, tongue, people and nation have already been made kings and priests. This OCCURS BEFORE any seals have been opened. Which means that they have escaped the false Christs, wars, famines, pestilences etc. That means they have escaped the tribulation, which are the 1st 6 seals that we can also see in Matt 24.
  11. The Light

    Not good

    But is the Bible clear about when the abomination of desolation will occur, Mr Spock?
  12. Satan deceives the nations. That would be Gog and the other nations that attack Israel
  13. No. All nations come against Israel before the 1000 years. Only Gog and his allies which are listed come after the 1000 years. Is it really that hard to put Gog Magog after the 1000 years like the word says?
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