Michael (limmuwd)

Indeed, a True Christian IS one who walks as He walks, does as He does, obeys as He does. "If you keep My commands you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commands and remain in His love." - John 15:10 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on Me also will live because of Me." - John 6:57 May He be our portion, our Daily Bread. Amen.

Which, if in any way differs from what Jesus taught, would have to be dismissed. But since it does not, then there remains only ONE CHURCH.

Your reasoning here is that Paul changed what Jesus taught and what God proclaimed through the prophets. That is dangerous ground to tread indeed. Our God did not, and never will change. The God of the OT is EXACTLY the same as the God of the NT and today. God's grace is not new in the NT, it was God's grace that saved Israel out of bondage. The same grace that saves us out of bondage as well, if we will walk in it. Otherwise re can "receive His grace in vain" and it does us no good, as as see with many Israelites in the wilderness. No, I will never accept that Anything Paul wrote changed a single "jot or tittle" of what Jesus taught, or even a single prophecy concerning the One Church from the OT. Spend some time in the Scripture for yourself, apart from denominational statements; seek the mind of Christ and see what His Spirit would speak to you.

Amen. May we be counted among them to whom this Word is given. For it applies only to those who "presented their bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God", to those who actually are "obeying from the heart" the Truth of what Jesus & the Apostles taught.

Thanks for your reply. Romans 6 is one of my favorite chapters, along with Romans 8 (of which I've done extensive Bible Study), for it tells us of what it truly means to be baptized and become a True follower of Christ Jesus. Verse 16 you quote above is one of the keys. "Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?" Many church-goers, although "saved" still continually "offer themselves as slaves to sin", which can only lead one place. Being "saved" does not make one automatically a saint who only wants to serve God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. We often claim that, but it reality it just isn't true. Look around you in church. Look at yourself in the mirror. We are only "servants of righteousness" if we are actually "practicing righteousness" in our behavior and deeds. Our initial being "saved" is an opportunity, not an end. The whole of Scripture, in context, undeniably confirms that.

The Mid-Acts Dispensational teachings, from what I'm familiar with, do not line up with the bulk of the Bible. Your denomination's understanding of the Church (a belief in three Churches) cannot possibly have come from the canon of Scripture. They separate Jew & Gentile and even the Body of Christ into different churches and claim there are different prophecies concerning each. No. There is one Church, one Elect of God. They are one in the same. All the promises and warnings in the Scripture are to those called by God to become One with Him. And it began with Abram. Oft-times reasoning comes that claims the Gentile believers are raptured, but the Jewish church is left to face and overcome antichrist. That is false. Sadly, the Mid-Acts folk appear to place Paul at a higher place than the other Apostles, and even above Jesus. That is very dangerous. All I can say is that each of us must search the Scriptures ourselves, and submit to the Holy Spirit of God who will guide us into all Truth, and bring to remembrance all that Jesus taught.

Thanks for your reply and your point of view of doctrine. However, as I see it, one of the biggest problems in the church today is that most seem to believe that "getting saved" is the end, and guarantees Heaven when we die, based solely on what Jesus did. I have asked many times over the years for a single verse that says 'getting saved means we go to heaven when we die.' I have never received a single reply that included clear verses that state that. Why? Because it is not Biblical. Seriously. Again, Paul & Peter & Jude specifically point out that our journey is as Israel in the wilderness. They were saved, baptized, were following the Lord and had partaken of Christ, yet their carcasses were strewn in the desert, because they refused to repent and obey. I can confidently say, "thus says the Lord" when I state that if we "saved" folks, who have confessed the Name of the Lord... if we do not obey the commands of God given through Christ, if we do not repent and turn from our sins and love not our lives to the death, and prove our faith by our works... we will not inherit the Kingdom. It is as simple as that. Sin and disobedience will separate us from God. I have several clear verses on that. And, as has been mentioned here in this thread many times... anything that we believe and teach MUST be backed up by the canon of Scripture. Peace.

Newbies? It's actually so many who were "saved" years ago who have become comfortable in their walk, enjoy their life in the world too much and fail to press in to know the Lord and God's purpose for their life. Sadly, some of these will be found to have failed to use their talents, learn to discern between good and evil and have become tolerant and lukewarm. These will no inherit the promises. I have seen many who began well (yes, they were without a doubt saved), yet turned aside to the left or right, fell from grace and shrunk back unto destruction. I praise God that, through the trials & tribulations, the mistakes and humbling experiences, I have continued on the path with Jesus for over 20 years now. I quickly grew past the false "easy grace" teaching and have been able to spot such heretical, deceptive doctrines such as the Faith & Prosperity, and eternal security, and rapture messages. Whenever I teach or share, I encourage my listeners to read the passages in context, for ALL of the epistles of the NT, and nearly every book in the OT were written specifically to warn God's people about the dangers of disobedience, getting comfortable or taking Him for granted.

I'm sure that's how pastors attempt to explain it today, but it's just not what the passage states. These absolutely were "saved" individuals who had experienced more in the Lord than you or I. We have to keep the passages in context and realize who the writers of the epistles are speaking to. There is not a single verse in the Bible written to the unsaved. All the promises and warnings are to God's chosen people. The Apostle Paul, as well, spends much of his letters warning those who were saved to hold on to what they had received, grow in the grace of God and come to maturity; for some were beginning to take God's grace and the Cross of Christ for granted and becoming lukewarm. Think... one cannot backslide or neglect something they never had. You can't turn back from the plow unless you were actually plowing. I'm currently sharing a Bible study on 1Corinthians 10 in which Paul shows the "saved" the path they must take as we travel the journey God has set before us that leads to the Kingdom. And he warns that, as Israel in their wilderness, many who began saved, baptized and partakers of Christ fell along the way and failed to obtain the promises of God.

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears." - Heb 12:14-17 Let us know that the writer is warning "saved" people -who truthfully were far beyond where we are now in the Lord (see Heb 6:1-2) - that they can fall from grace and find no way to return if they continue to sin and assume Jesus will continue to forgive them. He won't. "Without holiness, no one shall see the Lord." True Repentance is a "turning away from sin", not a 'feeling bad' as is often taught today.

That is the message that the majority of church-goers hear from the pulpits Sunday mornings. Sadly. The great bulk of Scripture must be ignored or put off onto the Jews or unbelievers, or just flat our rejected to come up with such "doctrine." I won't belabor it, for I'm sure I will be dismissed as well (as were the prophets of old)... but without repentance (turning from sin), surrendering to Christ in everything (yes, it costs us everything), and walking worthy (we must be found worthy; not by association with Christ, but actually worthy) - which is the Way of the Cross, the Way Jesus calls us to follow - we will NOT inherit the promises given only to the Elect who "overcome." The whole of Scripture is clear on this.

Have you, or any, ever wondered why Jesus didn't preach this message to the crowds, but only to a Pharisee, a leader of Israel? Indeed, there is great reason. That message was NOT for the masses. It was for God's Elect to hear and receive. The Christ spoke a message of hope to the crowds.

And Jesus spoke more about the Kingdom of God than anything else. Especially since the Kingdom of God is our goal; that Kingdom on earth where God will dwell among men when the spiritual & physical realms converge.

Amen. Truly, His promise is that "when we search for Him with all our heart, He will be found by us" (Jer 29:13-14) And "Indeed, the Lord God does nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7). Our place is to be serving Him, having "presented our bodies a living sacrifice, holy & acceptable to God" (Rom 12:1), that we might truly have "ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches", and ourselves "always be ready to give an answer to those who ask you to give a reason for the hope that is within you." (1Pet 3:15)

Sorry, but that is incorrect. "Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.” - Rev 5:9-10 Romans 11 speaks of the saints being "grafted into the True Vine" which is Israel. There is no such thing as a Gentile Church as is falsely taught at times. There is only one Church, Jew & Gentile together who have come to "abide IN Christ" (which is far more than having just "accepted" or "believed in" Him.

In the end, it's God's Gospel of the Kingdom anyway, not our own. And the Gospel commands "men everywhere to repent" (beginning with the church). Man-made 'gospels' are full of humanism and universalism, but are contrary to the Word Jesus' preached.

Truly heartbreaking. The slaughter of the innocents will not be unpunished in our nation, or the world. God will bring His Judgment. But, behind those who walk in deception or willful ignorance, there rages a spiritual battle...

Wow! Curious, which denomination you have been 'taught' under. For all that you said above is opposite of what the Scripture declares.

Hmm... I know many churches are afraid to preach from the Book of Revelation (& much of Hebrews as well), because it doesn’t fit current doctrine, but to ignore the great promises of God to the Elect does a great disservice to the churches. Absolutely, will the Elect who are the “called, chosen & faithful”, those who are found “worthy”, sit with the Lamb on His Throne, judge men & angels and rule over the saved nations in Eternity. “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” – Rev 3:21 “he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron.” – Rev 2:26-27 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.” – Rev 3:12 This Truth is found throughout both New and Old Testaments as well. Sadly, the church as a whole has settled for a far lesser Gospel that is largely wishful thinking and fable. “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.” - Prov 25:2 And He has called some to be kings.

Amen. And remember, WE are Israel as well, who have been grafted into the True Vine. Each of those commands and promises you quoted above are for US as well. IF we are to sit with the Lamb on His Throne, judging men & angles, ruling the nations and ministering Life and healing to the sheep in Eternity, then we must be found righteous and worthy and be among those who overcome.

We must realize that the command to "repent" is almost exclusively given to "saved" people, as is evidenced by Christ's rebuke to the 7 churches in Revelation 2 & 3. God expects non-believers to sin. He commands those whom have been enlightened to actually "turn from their wicked ways." It is "saved" people who face greater punishment for their willful sin than do those in the world who commit the same acts. "that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more." - Luke 12:47-48 And as for Eternal punishment, Jesus' Himself quotes God's Word given through the prophet Isaiah, concerning the wicked in Eternity - “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” - Isaiah 66:24 And, of a Truth, the Lake of Fire is for wicked people, not all who didn't "receive Christ" in this life.

The Apostasy is in the beginning stages now, and has been since Christ Jesus' Resurrection. False, but ear-tickling, doctrines such as the rapture, unconditional love and once-saved-always-saved, have crept into the churches and eroded the Truth that Jesus taught. These and other such fables are rampant in our assemblies today, and only about 20% (if even) of what is commonly preached and received by the masses, is actually in line with Scripture. God's great plan and purpose has been lost. Yet He always has a remnant who believe...

There is an Eternal Moral Law of God. The Ten Commandments were an abridged covenantal version. Jesus, and the rest of the NT writers, taught to Ten in their expanded, fullest form. And a bit of food for thought here... The 6th Commandment is quoted in some translations as "you shall not kill", yet God commanded Israel to destroy, every living thing among the 6 peoples that occupied the Promised Land. Oh yes, there is so much more than we have known concerning who God is, what took place in the heavens at the beginning, and what our God's great plan and purpose is in Christ. God's wisdom and understanding to all who walk with Jesus.

Amen Omegaman! And Bravo! Your list reminds me of something I shared recently - https://pressingintomaturity.blogspot.com/2019/01/where-do-i-belong.html I've been teaching such Truth for many years now, and aside from a remnant, I am dismissed by many. And to RockWater777's question above... There is no "trinity" as is usually defined in modern Christendom, there is far too much Scripture to prove the True relationship between the Father and the Son to oppose the 2 verses commonly used to argue that they are equal, or even the same being. God's wisdom and understanding to us all. Peace & Blessings, Michael

Amen. Well put MissMuffet May we ever be on the lookout for these, and not allow any into our lives. In an essay I wrote and taught on the subject a couple years ago, I used a quote by A.W. Tozer, which sadly is increasingly applicable in our churches today - "Christianity is so entangled with the world that millions never guess how radically they have missed the New Testament pattern. Compromise is everywhere. The world is whitewashed just enough to pass inspection by blind men posing as believers, and those same believers are everlastingly seeking to gain acceptance with the world. By mutual concessions men who call themselves Christians manage to get on with men who have for the things of God nothing but quiet contempt." - A.W. Tozer Dear saints, we cannot afford to compromise with the things of the world. “Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” (James 4:4) God has given us His written Word: We must study and meditate upon it. He has given us His Holy Spirit to “teach us all things and bring to remembrance all that Jesus taught” (John 14:26) and to “lead us into all Truth.” (John 16:13): We must daily interact with Him. The Word and the Spirit are the lamp and the oil we read about in the parable of the ten virgins awaiting the return of the Bridegroom. This is a picture of Christians awaiting the return of Christ to the earth. Some were ready, some were not. In which group will we be found when He returns? Blessings, Michael