jsimms615

No, I'm referring to now. Your either "in Adam" or "in Christ". If you are "in Christ" then you are a part of the true church

God has one church regardless of the denomination. It isn't divided. Denominations are man made

I usually read the New American Standard Version

God doesn't promise us that life will be free from suffering. Most of the apostles were martyred for their faith and suffered a lot more than any of us. So did most christians throughout history for their faith. Prosperity preachers do take away from the Bible by sugar coating how easy life will be if they follow Christ. Christ didn't promise that. He told us to take up our cross, die to self and follow Him

So, I'm just curious, would you interpret all of the other kingdoms in symbolic language because Isaiah mentions numerous other kingdoms in his prophecy? So, you don't see any of them as literal? I wonder if Isaiah understood it to be like that as well

I believe what is being referred to is that by our own efforts we cannot please God because the flesh is hostile to God. As it says in Romans 8:7-8 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

19 In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord. 20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. 21 And the Lord shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the Lord in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the Lord, and perform it. 22 And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. 23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. 24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance." Isaiah 19:19-25 My question is when did or will this happen or has it already happened? Or is this a reference to the millenium?

If you think about it all your sins past, present and future were in the future when Jesus went to the cross to pay for them. So, our forgiveness was complete then and we don't have to now worry about walking in condemnation Romans 8:1.

I would leave and go somewhere else.

The obvious problem with that thought that these are just Jews is that it says that people from all nations and people groups are represented and not just Jews.

Rev 3:10 is specifically written to the church in Philadelphia. Context

Yes, I did look up the passages you quoted. I do realize that Abraham had family members there and that is part of why he was worried about the situation. I was already aware of that. I read my Bible also

According to this timetable then the saints who were dead and raised are alive during the tribulation and floating around in the air above while everyone else on earth is suffering. Got it. That makes me feel better

admittedly that is a little confusing because it isn't until the next chapter that we see a multitude who came out of the tribulation having been martyred. So, it seems that there are believers present during this passage and that they must be so terrified also that they are hiding. Though that really isn't that hard to believe because just reading it it sounds terrifying I surely hope that you are right and that the church is raptured out of the tribulation beforehand. I wouldn't want to be there that is for sure

The only one of those four verses that really look like it could apply is the Genesis 18:23 one. I really think your stretching the context of the other passages

No, it really doesn't. I would assume that real believers wouldn't be afraid of God and hiding from him. These are lost people who are hiding

What scripture reference are you referring to that shows that children under the age of accountability will be taken during the rapture? By definition these are people who have not made a decision one way or the other to accept Christ or not.

There is no indication at all that these are believers who are trying to hide from God's presence

I do understand the concept of the pre tribulation rapture and I hope your right for a sure wouldn't want to live through the Tribulation. I was taught Pre tribulation rapture beliefs when I was a teenager over 35 years ago. However, as I said in an earlier post, there are numerous passages that don't support a revival of a great many believers in the Tribulation period mainly Rev 9:20-21 and Rev 6:15-17. Jesus also said in the last days that most people's love will grow cold. It makes more sense to me that the believers who were pictures martyred in the Tribulation are the church and that the church still remains during the Tribulation period.

I think three main thoughts that the church today struggles with is: 1. Lukewarmness in love for God- I think the main way that we see this is in the compromises that people make with the world and our interest in both being friends with God and friends with the world. 2. Lukewarmness in our love for each other- I think this is one of the main ways that the devil divides churches. He wants us to turn on each other and tear each other apart. In many cases, that is exactly the way it is in many churches. Our lack of love for God overflows into our lack of love for each other 3. Biblical ignorance- many people just don't read their Bible much at all and are ignorant about what it says. If they don't like something the pastor says they want to argue without researching it and seeing if it is true. People seem to want their ears tickled in this day and time and not told the truth from scripture

That really doesn't answer my question at all. I was asking for a specific or specific verses that show that people on earth become sensitive to God's word and repent in numbers too great to count during the tribulation period and the reality is that there isn't any. Peoples hearts are already so hard that they don't repent. When the two witnesses die they rejoice over it and don't let anyone bury them. During the end of the sixth trumpet for example it says "And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." Revelations 9:20-21, NASB When the sixth seal was broke the world's response is recorded in Revelations 6:15-17 "And the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of HIm who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?" So, they clearly understand their experience to be wrath from God, but their response is not to repent, but to hide in the caves from God's presence. Clearly these judgments didn't lead to repentance.

In order for this to happen in this manner there would need to be a worldwide revival of which the Bible makes no mention of that I can see during the Tribulation period. If such a revival does not happen during the Tribulation then a number of martyred believers too numerous to count would not be represented here. Can you point to a passage that speaks of a worldwide revival of believers in the tribulation period because I don't see it? I actually see the opposite, that most people seem to become more stubborn and rebellious during the judgment of God on earth

Revelations 7:9-11 says this "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God," What I have heard people say is that the next event in church history to happen is the rapture of the church. Some believe this is symbolized by John being caught up into heaven in Revelation 4. What I am wondering is if this is true then who are these multitude of people who come from all sorts of different nations and tribes and are so numerous that they can't be counted? Clearly they are believers who were in the tribulation period.