RTCarroll

3 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I was wondering if anyone saw a similarity between Donald Trump and John the Baptist (the one in the Bible - not me).

None whatsoever.  One was a man of God the other gives empty lip service to God. 

18 hours ago, Repose said:

What is your opinion? Should one avoid music altogether? Only listen to Christian music? Listen to whatever kind of music, so long as there's no swearing or anything inappropriate? Or just listen to whatever?

It's something I wonder about often. I'm curious as to how others feel.

I am an old headbanger from the 70s when I started listening to KISS, Meatloaf, Black Sabbath and a dozen other heavy metal bands.  I then found Rush and Pink Floyd and Yes and a more mellow version of rock.  I still listen to them today.   But also like some mellow music like Chicago, ELO and the like. 

All good music that I listen to depending upon my mood or my activity. 

I used to listen to the Christian music station, but there is just no variety, it all sounds the same after a while.  

11 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

That is possible but somewhat unlikely. 

It is not only likely, it is reality.   I do not know anyone that drinks to get drunk or buzzed of what have you.  They all do so for the same reason people drink Ice tea or whatever it might be.  You should not judge people on things you know so little about. 

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

From Scripture,  I learned that true followers of Jesus will not cause another believer to trip, or sin, in any way within their power to change.

Paul said he would (or did) give up ALL meat (not just the forbidden pork),

 

in order not to "destroy" another man's soul by causing him to stumble......    (I forget the location/ reference/ exact words, but this is close)....

No,   

Jesus and the APostles NEVER said those weak in faith, or little children,  or seekers,

should be stronger instead of stumbling.  

They always said the true (stronger) believers should STOP the offending behavior for the sake of the weaker one(s).

Yet nobody will tell the Christian driving a $75,000 car they should sell it because it caused a weaker brother with envy problems to stumble. 

Yet nobody will tell the three hundred pound pastor they should lose weight because it caused a weaker brother with gluttony problems to stumble. 

Has anyone ever known a Christian to not eat meat because they were causing a vegan to stumble?

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The problem with alcohol is that the body builds up a tolerance. You then need more in order to get the same effect. That is why a person ends up drinking more than one drink a day. 

Unless you are drinking it because you really like the taste of a good craft beer and not for any "effect". 

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

I agree, but by the time it is diagnosed a lot of damage to ones insulin response has been done, and the weight has been put on and is very difficult to shift, especially in insulin users (many type 2 diabetics are or become insulin users). Blaming the overweight people for this is not fair.

Yet it seems 'fair' to see someone with a 6-pack and see the appearance of evil...it is 'fair' to see a man with a woman not his wife and assume the worst.

2 hours ago, maryjayne said:

Type 2 diabetes only occurs in those with the gene to trigger it. Otherwise everyone overweight would have it. And your argument does not explain the 20% or more thin type 2 diabetics.

You appear to have missed the research in the last few years refuting your stance and showing that type 2 diabetes is an inability to process carbs properly, leading to weight gain and great difficulty in losing the weight put on.

They would not trigger the gene if they had a healthy lifestyle.   

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5792082/

1. Modifiable factors

Persons diagnosed with diabetes are behaviors that persons can change in order to manage their diabetes and to lower blood glucose levels, such as altering diet, increasing exercise, and eliminating unhealthy lifestyle activities (e.g., smoking, excessive alcohol, insufficient sleep) [2]. Modifiable factors in persons who are pre-diabetic, regardless of their age, are a diet high in fat and low in fresh fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Foods containing low levels of sugar may also prevent and/or delays diabetes onset. In addition, the maintenance of normal cholesterol and blood pressure levels may also reduce pre-diabetes symptoms and diabetes onset.

19 hours ago, maryjayne said:

I think you need to educate yourself on this. Insulin resistance is the first symptom of type 2 diabetes, and the belly fat is a visible indicator of this. Now please stop blaming people for what they cant help. 

Yes, it is the first symptom of type 2 diabetes, and type 2 diabetes is a lifestyle disease. 

 Unlike Type 1 diabetes which is an autoimmune disease, Type 2 is almost always the result of lifestyle choices.   Too many calories and not enough exercise.    Type 2 does not make people fat, being fat causes Type 2.

Belly fat is not the indicator, it is part of the cause. 

Stop giving people a free pass for their poor lifestyle choices. 

https://www.verywellhealth.com/top-risk-factors-for-type-2-diabetes-1087693

5 hours ago, maryjayne said:

Many people are fat due to insulin resistance.

And that insulin resistance is due to lifestyle and food choices.   Most  insulin resistance is the result of excess body weight, too much belly fat, a lack of exercise, smoking, and poor sleeping habits.  

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Dear oh Dear oh Deary Me. What to do, Policy Change. Law Change. Climate Change. Culture Change. Social Change. Personality Change. Sex Change. And this horrible Vocabulary Change.  

One thing that never changes is change itself.  It will always be happening, it is the nature of the universe that God created.

6 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

The reason people wear a Jesus shirt is to be a witness.  Do it while buying beer, you defeat the purpose.  If you don't care about that, neither do I, but I don't find your arguments persuasive at all.

Of course you do not, because you base your view of alcohol on your own opinions and not the word of God.   I say wearing it while fat defeats the purpose just as much.  

My argument is that people have pet sins that they care about more than other sins, and with each post you prove my argument correct. 

37 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

First of all, the RCC made up the 7 deadly sins.  Secondly, most people that are fat have issues like with their thyroid.  Having an expensive car doesn't make you greedy.  I am not buying into any of this.

True, but it made the point.

Second, that is baloney.  Less than 10% of the people in this country have a thyroid issue.  Most fat people are fat because they eat too much and exercise too little. 

Having an expensive car does not make you greedy, nor does having a beer make you a sinner, yet we are up to 16 pages of people that have no problem judging people for having alcohol. 

My whole point is that drinking a beer is no more a sin than being fat or having a nice car.  Yet we do not treat them equally, and that is based upon man's biases...not God's word

17 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

Alcohol is considered sin by a lot of people.  Only highly judgmental and envious people see sin in an expensive car or being overweight.  

But alcohol is not a sin, Jesus' first miracle was to create alcohol.   It seems to be it is very highly judgmental to consider something a sin that God does not consider a sin.

The bible tells us that gluttony is a sin, one of "7 deadly" ones at that.  

Greed is also a sin, in fact the love of money is the root of all evil. 

Yet we never worry about appearing to have those sins...why is that?

This goes back to my first point in this thread, too many people in churches today have a hierarchy of sins, some are ok and some are unforgivable. 

Is this what God calls us to do?  

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I think people need to mind their own business. That is a problem with humans today. 

You did not seem to have an issue with people saying that others should not drink due to giving the appearance of evil.

3 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

I don't believe that being overweight proves gluttony or owning an expensive car proves one is a lover of money.  When I see people make such criticisms, I see them as envious and judgemental.

It is not about proving gluttony nor being a lover of money ,it is about giving that appearance. 

We have been told over and over again that even holding a beer can give the appearance of evil...if that is true why is it not true for being overweight or owning an expensive car?

Why is it ok to tell people they should not drink because of the appearance of evil but wrong to tell someone not to be fat to avoid the appearance of evil?  Why is the former accepted and encouraged and the latter not acceptable? 

2 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

Because alcoholism is viewed as a more serious epidemic that causes a lot more destruction and pain. Just my opinion. 

Also, if you read Titus 1:6-9 about choosing elders,  gluttony is not mentioned in that, but drunkenness is. 

 6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Should we be basing our actions on the views of man or of God?

99.9% of us are not trying out for elder, so not sure how that applies to this situation. 

37 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

I just wasn’t interested in discussing  someone’s weight or what car they drive or any other topic when the discussion was about alcohol.

 

 

But they are all tied together in a common thread...they can all be sins and they can all not be sins. 

Yet you never see anyone being told sell their car because it is making a poor brother stumble.  Or telling a pastor to lose weight before they start to preach on the evils of alcohol.  

Why is that?

32 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

All of the comments are referring to the original poster asking an OPINION about wearing a “Jesus” shirt while carrying beer.

 

Yes, and it was deemed a bad thing to do.  

But wearing a Jesus shirt while weighing 350 pounds is not

Wearing a Jesus shirt while driving a $75,000 car is not.

Why is the sin of alcohol singled out for not being able to wear a Jesus shirt?

3 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

No it would not because neither one of those things has been associated with evil the same way alcohol has. 

Im reading a Christian book right now where the author just talked about how it was typical in his Irish Catholic town to hear men beating their wives after getting drunk. 

Drunkenness is associated with anger, drunk driving deaths, severe addiction, infidelity(it was the alcohol) and so many other harms to other people. 

 

2 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

I should say where I come from,  those are typically not associated with evil to the same degree as alcohol.

If I see a commercial for a Mercedes Benz or a McDonald’s Ad, it doesn’t come with a warning. I believe most alcohol ads now come with a warning to “drink responsibly.”

If 350lb men driving $75,000 cars start meeting in groups all across the country talking about their struggles and how they are harming themselves and others, then I will see your point. If  the news starts to say they are awaiting to hear if food and money were involved in the deadly accident, then I will understand your point.

Of course greed  and gluttony are sins. But I thought this thread was talking about alcohol? alcohol and drugs have a long history and special place in the destruction of families and communities and I wouldn’t be walking around with a “Jesus” t-shirt on carrying  a twelve pack. I’m glad that old couple stared  him down! They should have given  him a good whack over the head.

1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said:

No.

All of these comments highlight what I see as a problem in the church, we have chosen sins that are worse than other sins.   

Some sins give the appearance of evil while other sins do not.   Is that consistent with God's word?  

Does God think that drinking a beer with dinner is worse than the love of money or gluttony?  I think the answer is no, yet we are happy to create a hierarchy of sins whose appearances are ok and others are not.  This is not what we should be doing.   

Yes, alcohol can causes problems, it can harm your health.  Yet alcohol is no where near the health issues in this country that obesity is.   

How many men have put their jobs before their families and their God because of greed?  I would say far more than have done so because of alcohol. 

35 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

No it would not because neither one of those things has been associated with evil the same way alcohol has. 

Im reading a Christian book right now where the author just talked about how it was typical in his Irish Catholic town to hear men beating their wives after getting drunk. 

Drunkenness is associated with anger, drunk driving deaths, severe addiction, infidelity(it was the alcohol) and so many other harms to other people. 

 

Greed and the love of money is not associate with evil?  

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Slothfulness and gluttony are not associate with evil?   Are you sure about that?

1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said:

Since I don't like beer, I wouldn't know.

Have you tried a nice craft beer?

45 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

It is combining it with the Jesus shirt that gives an appearance of evil.

Would combining the Jesus shirt with driving a 75,000 dollar car also give an appearance of evil?

Would wearing the Jesus shirt while weighing 350 pounds also give an appearance of evil?

7 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

I don't like the taste of beer or alcohol.  If all I wanted beer for was taste, they sell non alcoholic beer.  The Bible does say in excess, so I don't think it is sin in moderation, but it can create an appearance of evil.

Just about anything can create an appearance of evil. 

15 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Find anywhere on this thread that I've posted people should not drink responsibly, and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, please do not judge me. Thank you. 

How about wearing the Jesus T-shirt while drinking responsibly?