DeighAnn

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. The GIFT ISN'T waiting to come, THE GIFT CAME. 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. HOW did GOD SHOW 'death' had been defeated? WAS IT WITH the GRAVES of the saints that were opened? Or Christ walking around? Does any of that SOUND FUTURE? Do you think THIS PRAYER hasn't been answered for 2000 years? 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. Do you think sin brought death in this world/age but forgiveness of sin DIDN'T bring life, IT JUST REMAINED EXACTLY LIKE IT WAS BEFORE? Under the OLD TEST everyone was rising on the last day UNDER the NEW TEST everyone is rising on the last day? SO THE POINT of HIS RESURRECTION is WHAT exactly? What do you see the 'gift of salvation' being for? since God was the God of the Living...Abraham...BEFORE Christ was risen... Sorry. Lots on my mind Where is Christ right now? Where has He been since He ascended?

their head is buried and goes back to dust their body is buried and goes back to dust the angels come and get their 'next realm' spiritual 'whole being' body soul spirit and they go to heaven THEY NEVER DIE. Only their flesh and blood body goes back to dust. Are you saying THE GRAVES WERE NOT opened? SOME DAY, AND SOME WAY YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH it being THE DEAD THAT RISE. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Just like it is written. WHEN the KINGDOM of Heaven returns to the earth the INHABITANTS of the earth will be 'as the angels in heaven'. We will all be in the SPIRITUAL REALM and STILL there will be those who are saved and those who are not. Not until the lake of fire when THE DEAD stand in judgment will be finally be rid of the dead. immortal facing the 2nd death immortality NOT facing the 2nd death Say what you will, I don't have SOULS returning from heaven to RE POSSESS A CORPSE that will be raised in glory.... Why I am the only one who sees that as UNRIGHTEOUS I have no idea. Maybe many are called but few are chosen is correct after all. Maybe wide is the way to destruction and narrow the way to life....

that DAY was 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. is the hour of temptation just an hour? We still have to RIGHTLY DIVIDE don't we? I am saying THEY CAN BE PHYSICALLY, AND SPIRITUALLY(mind) and captive in hell paying the penalty of sin if died under the law. So the ONE WAY doesn't stop another way from being just as true. your choice 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

but you all know the MYSTERY OF INIQUITY has been working for the past 2000 years RIGHT? AM I SAYING anything that ISN'T WRITTEN??? Are you? I know when I stand in front of God whos words I will be using, WITHOUT EXCUSE or explanation. BETTER TO BE WRONG under that condition Then WRONG because of choosing the words of man over them by calling the living the dead or separating 'souls' from their bodies or having all spiritual bodies remain in the corruption TILL the last day or having CORPSES RISE for the eternal body or having the decay inherit IMMORTALITY 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. THEY ARE NOT IN CHRIST. THEY ARE SIMPLY THE DEAD. They are not a part of the MYSTERY about NOT ALL DIE as they are already dead.

Everyone is still 'breathing' and in a body till the lake of fire. Either in a natural body or a spiritual body, depending on the realm. During life in either of the 'realms' everyone is EITHER - in the Lord or not. Those of the first resurrection are those 'in the Lord', those who are not, face the 2nd death. The souls of the spiritually dead are either in their natural body on the earth or their spiritual body under the earth. The souls of the spiritually living are either in their natural body on the earth or their spiritual bodies above the earth Therefore the souls under the altar are above the earth in their spiritual body. Those who are 'beheaded' NEVER see corruption, never die so never 'come' to life because their soul in their spiritual body RISES when their natural body goes back to dust. They don't COME TO LIFE that is just how your BIBLE translation reads, but is not how it reads in the original, so it comes across as some kind of 'birth' but it isn't, please go look it up for yourself so we don't have to keep addressing this. I agree Paul says the dead are resurrected when Christ returns. Paul DOESN'T say THE LIVING are resurrected, does he? I keep saying the same thing but YOU keep saying something that ISN'T WRITTEN as if it were. PAUL SAYS THE DEAD AND SOMEHOW YOU READ 'THE LIVING'. YOU show where the LIVING are resurrected when Christ returns AND THEN I CAN BELIEVE YOU. How is it Paul tells you THE DEAD RISE and you don't believe it? It's insane. EXAMPLE OF WHAT I SEE HAPPENING. RED = DEAD BLUE = LIVING Paul says when Christ returns the RED rise but YOU KEEP TELLING ME Paul says when Christ returns the BLUE rise. So I keep SHOWING YOU Paul says the RED rise, while you keep telling me I AM WRONG. HOW is it I am WRONG because I LIKE PAUL say it is the RED that rise NOT THE BLUE and you are RIGHT when you say Paul SAYS it is the BLUE who rise??? 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. IF IT WERE WRITTEN LIKE THIS, I WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THE LIVING WERE BEING RAISED AND NOT THE DEAD 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE LIVING shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. THEY ARE STILL THE DEAD. You can 'highlight' the IN CHRIST all you want but the fact remains the unsaved DESCEND at the common death while the SAVED ascend at the common death THE SAVED ALREADY ASCENDED at the first death That leaves THE DEAD as the ONLY ONES who have not yet risen. The living go on living with the God of the living HAVING ASCENDED in their living spiritual body and return still alive so they don't need to rise when Christ returns they have already risen. EVEN YOU YOURSELF admit that. but THEN YOU BELIEVE something NOT WRITTEN. YOU BELIEVE ALL SPIRITUAL BODIES GO TO HELL. ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES. It's NOT that I am not listening, it's that you are not PROVING using Gods Words. The LIVING IN CHRIST have followed Him to be where He is at the common death. AGREED or DISAGREE? He is at the right hand of the Father. Agreed or disagree? what GOATS are there amongst THE SAVED? WE NEED YOU TO ADDRESS THESE VERSES 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this? 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. NOT AWAIT HIS RETURN, BUT FOLLOW HIM. Imperishable EXCEPT for the 2nd death Immortal EXCEPT for the 2nd death BUT no matter what............ the DECAY doesn't receive IMMORTALITY. neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. so no one WHO RISES up from UNDER THE EARTH rises up with immortality. an 'immortal' body can be killed in the lake of fire, just cant be killed by 'man' someone with IMMORTALITY ISN'T GOING INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, they are going to eat the from the Tree of Life. immortal facing the 2nd death immortality FIRST RESURRECTION, not facing the 2nd death

I show Scripture for everything, so how that is 'making stuff up' I have no idea. Are you just projecting on me what you are not able to do yourself? Show me your belief from Scripture, from foundation to completion, LIKE I will RIGHT NOW. LET'S PROVE WHAT WE SAY ONCE AND FOR today anyway. Short description followed by PROOF Luke 4 from Isa 61 scroll 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind to set at liberty them that are bruised 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. That maybe a metaphor IN THE NATURAL REALM, but they are ' LITERAL' events taking place in the SPIRITUAL REALM. Since we are TALKING BIBLE we have to account for BOTH. THE FOUNDATION for my belief So we understand 'bruise' as it relates to the verses up above and who He was speaking of where. 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen3 TO PROVE HE WAS GOING TO DESCEND to them that were dead/those that slept 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mt12 MORE PROOF HE KNEW WHERE HE WAS GOING and what would happen 23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John11 THE subject is LIFE AND DEATH AND THE GRAVE, literal literally THE DEAD IN THE GRAVE at that time, paying the penalty of death John 6:39-40 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. HE HAD NOT YET BEEN CRUCIFIED and had not spent the 3 days with them that slept. The New Covenant had not taken over so those under the law, slept The ransom had not been paid so no one had yet been redeemed The penalty for death from sin was not yet covered under grace and the blood of the Lamb Romans 5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Colo 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Matt 27:50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 1 Cor 15;20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb Revelation 14:4 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation Revelation 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held Revelation 6:9 36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. 37Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. 38Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 17:14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. WHERE IS HE? WHERE HAS HE BEEN? SO WHERE ARE PETER AND THOMAS AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE WHO THE FATHER HAS GIVEN? ARE THEY BEHOLDING HIS GLORY right now?

How? by what HAPPENS to GODS WORDS.... Pre trib brings into question the Justice of God Osas brings into question the need to Reverence God Eternal damnation/no 2nd death brings into question the MERCY of God Resurrection of the 'living' as the 'dead' on the last day brings into question the very TRUTH of Gods Word.

I take everything a literal until I can't, because what is actually written MUST BE TRUE no matter what. And I don't think the 'elect' is the army, I think the army consists of THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM. I believe the 'elect' are the alive and remaining when He returns. How do you 'follow Him' to heaven when this body dies?

Was it the Spirit? Was it given you by the Spirit or by some man? Behold, a mystery to you I tell all not DIE because as FOR THE LIVING who DIE THE COMMON DEATH up until the last day WE already KNOW what happens to them. If everyone rises on the last day, THEN WHAT IS THE WHOLE CHAPTER ABOUT?

Yes, but of the DEAD. TWO RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. NOT THE LIVING The DEAD rise when He returns. The DEAD rise from the place of the DEAD, having suffered the common death of the body. ALL of them NOT just their natural body, but ALSO their spiritual body/soul/spirit go to hell. RICH MAN on one side of the GULF. They SEE CORRUPTION. They are LEFT IN HELL. Those who are left in the grave suffer corruption. The corruption DOESN'T receive immortality when raised up at the return of Christ. HOW can those be SOULS THAT NEVER DIE if those raised up when Christ returns DON'T receive IMMORTALITY? HOW can I say all that and claim it is written? 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption The NEVER DIE, the LIVING, FOLLOW HIM to heaven at the common death. They go to be where He is. HOW do they GET THERE? They are RAISED UP. HOW does the resurrection of the dead GO FOR THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED the gift of Salivation? Their natural 'body is sown in corruption' they FOLLOW HIM. I'm no rocket scientist, but I can follow basic information. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: THEY ARE RAISED IN IMMORTALITY 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. THEY ARE RAISED IN A SPIRITUAL BODY 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will. The God of the LIVING, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not the DEAD. The HOUR in which those in the GRAVE will hear HIS VOICE is the 3 days of Jonah. Christ is NEVER going back in the 'grave' again. THAT is the ONLY TIME. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Common death then follow HIM to be where He is. While the DEAD are buried in the corruption. When the NEW COVENANT is brought forth, by the death of the Testor, those who DIED under the 'law of sin and death', those who are 'sleeping' are those who will hear His voice. They are the dead whos' graves will open, Christ the firstfruits of them that slept. For 3 days, the sign of Jonah, they will hear his voice and NOT THEM only, but all in the grave, all THE ETHNOS will HEAR His voice and the GOOD NEWS and when He ascends, He leads those who were in captivity to death THROUGH SIN, to heaven. THEY ARE REDEEMED FROM the earth, their RANSOM paid. BY ONE MAN DEATH CAME, BY 25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. The DEAD are given up from hell death and the sea after the DEAD who are judged 'according to their WORKS' not BY FAITH as the living were. Two resurrections. OF THE DEAD. Tell me, why did PAUL say, when speaking to this very subject... 14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Do you think it was because the Jews had that wrong also? But no matter what EVERYONE in the WHOLE WORLD believes, the resurrection that takes place when Christ returns, and NONE of you no matter what can EVER GET around is THE RESURRECTION WILL BE OF THE DEAD, NOT THE LIVING. In Christ AND not in Christ DOESN'T MATTER because the DEAD are raised up from the CORRUPTION and the DECAY doesn't receive IMMORTALITY, just an imperishable body. Many resurrections of the NEVER DIE. Ask yourself WHY do you keep making those who 'NEVER DIE' .............'THE DEAD'? rather than just have them FOLLOW HIM in their spiritual body? IT CAN ONLY BE BECAUSE OF THE TRADITIONS OF MEN HANDED DOWN through the years. It isn't what is written as I have shown time and again. COULD I keep giving SCRIPTURE, while you CAN NOT, if it was anything BUT THAT? I probably repeated stuff, and for that I apologize, doing this in starts and stops...lots going on

The 'Church' of this day and age seems to have forgotten or never even known some of these things...as to whether or not HATH means 'never perish' or not...such as in Acts 5 1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. 11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things. Is it OK TO TEACH in anyway, that there is a 'choice' of any sort other than 'remaining in belief/ABIDING, walking, studying growing/maturing' that is OK? I know it doesn't seem to matter how I try to show it as NOT BEING a doctrine OF GOD but a doctrine of man based upon a CONCLUSIONS of men from Gods word, or how it is a danger/stumbling block when given to those who don't know or understand still being on the milk, or how it is not a righteous doctrine to give credence to, knowing it is used to deceive and doesn't make the wicked turn from their wicked ways but allows the question of HOW FAR IS TOO FAR when no turning away is good.... But GOD KNOWS, one day it will no longer be taught because the 'elements' are going to get burnt up and a lot of people are going to get scorched, if not worse. What do we learn from the Schoolmaster 1And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 2And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. 3Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh Me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. When the Schoolmaster BRINGS you to Jesus, there are no questions like this asked. It is known, don't do it and if you mess up repent and ask forgiveness. It's Life or Death. CHRIST is the Lamb of God but if having received THE GIFT makes anyone think GOD IS NOT THE SAME GOD as He has always been then I really don't think they are thinking right. Does this 'debate' rage on because of what it costs those have been convinced that 'HATH' (and the verses put forth like it) means no matter what? And teach others so? Who does this debate help? GOD or the enemy? Numbers 16 1Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men: 2And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: 3And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD? 4And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face: 5And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him. 16:32 - And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. 16:35 - And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense. 16:49 - Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah 1 Samuel 6:19 - And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. 2 Samuel 6:7 - And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. 1 Chronicles 13:10 - And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God.

What I do agree with is the 'dual fulfillment' as some are set forth at present as types to what comes future. A few questions What about chapter 5 can take place in future only? What about chapter 4 fits the past? When you read Chapters 2 and 3 what impression are you left with? 1. The church has some really big issues UNACCEPTABLE to the Lord on earth, so definitely impossible to withstand 'the Consuming FIRE' seated in heaven and needing all that time until Christs return time to get things right or 2. It's in great shape ready 'to rapture' right then and ready as it stands in its' ways to JUDGE the world in Christs kingdom no time or change necessary? In Rev Chapters 1 2 and 3 we are given what is/has been going on, on the earth and In Chapter 4 and 5 we are given we are given what is/has been going on, in heaven. Everything in those chapters even to John are past or present. Jesus has been born and sacrificed, the Lamb of God found 'worthy', The Church has been set up on earth to take the Good news to the world until the Gospel has 'gone out to all the world', no longer only of the BLOODLINE but to all 'ethnos' from then on. The church still has lots of work to do and is shown to have lots of false teachings that need to be overcome. What Chapter 6 REVEALS would also be PAST to John by 50 years or so, wouldn't it? So, what do you see the reason for the book being 'sealed' in the first place and why was the book 'unsealed' when Christ is found back in Heaven? When you ask yourself What EVENTS had taken place up until then would you agree that God had chosen a people, He had given the Laws of His kingdom, they had all been "written" and The Nation He had promised, had come, but the 'covenant' broken by the people even though He had remained faithful, had gone but He still had another Temple built for the 'King' and the Kingdom of Heaven to come to rule on earth, but that had also come and BEEN rejected with the crucifixion of the KING? Do you remember what Jesus said right before His work for that day was finished? Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me John 14:30 Do you realize He was found in Heaven VERY SHORTLY after He said that? DOESN'T THE BOOK that WAS immediately UNSEALED upon Christs return to heaven TELL US WHAT IS COMING UPON THE EARTH? Doesn't it READ like it is all about the KINGDOM of the prince of this world and what it will be like? Doesn't the final seal tell us how it will come up what will happen and how it ultimately will end? And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword. A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Haven't ALL THOSE THINGS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE KINGDOM of HEAVEN WAS REJECTED? And hasn't the Church continued to carry on and grow throughout these 2000 years, 'the oil and the wine' not hurt, although there have been many MARTYRS along the way...God never giving 'more than they could take' "always a way out" if one couldn't do the 'job' others 'looking for a better resurrection' which would be where the souls under the altar have come from and how they are there before the TRIB begins.... 9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. SO we have THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN* under the altar, resting a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (US) What do all these have in common as an Adverb? Matthew 1:18 Matthew 26:34 Matthew 26:75 Mark 14:30 Mark 14:72 Luke 2:26 Luke 22:61 John 4:49 John 8:58 John 14:29 Acts 2:20 Acts 7:2 Acts 25:16 So THAT is my straightforward, easy to follow, make total sense while causing no conflict and needing no explanation, WRITTEN in GODS own words understanding and why I cannot follow your understanding of it. But at LEAST my timeline DOESN'T have a church (having just received a failing grade for the most part) with yet 2000 years still in its future - already in heaven, before its' birth having 'mysteriously' renamed itself as 'the elders'. without any rhyme, reason, or explanation other than 'I SAID SO' ever given. THERE IS NOT WORD ONE WRITTEN that speaks to that. IT IS put forth because of a DOCTRINE for which there ALSO is not one world written. Nor do I have a book that has been unsealed for 2000 years being referred to as still 'sealed' Nor do I have any events the whole WORLD (whether they believe in the words of God or not) HAS BEEN reporting and recording in profane history for the past 2000 years being put forth as 'future only' Nor do I have 'souls' under the altar CLEARLY BEFORE the trib even begins being referred to as coming 'FROM the trib' *29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. .

Yes, the Lamb HAS BEEN FOUND worthy and the Lamb UNSEALED the book WHEN the Lamb was found to be worthy. It's amazing to hear anyone say 'is hasn't been unsealed' yet here we are, able to discuss what prophecy was found under each of the seals. The ONLY OPTION to believe is whether the events written therein are future or not, not whether the unsealing is future or not. Yet, with souls under the altar previous to Satan and the angels kicked out, we know the events up to seal 5 have taken place, don't we? And still, none of that changes the fact that the ELDERS are in heaven LOOKING for someone to be found worth BEFORE the Lamb of God is, hence BEFORE the CHURCH has even begun. Hence the timing issue for those of us "not in the know".

The Lamb hadn't been found to open the book so are you saying that Christs crucifixion is future also?

I take full responsibility for not seeing Prophecy as you do.