Alive

Cool…I thought it good to see a brother express his thoughts on those verses.

What do you understand about these words?

The Lord, via Paul, did a thorough job dealing with this stuff writing to Corinth. I think these issues are dealt with at a local personal level as the Lord leads…developing any rigid system is a mistake.

On my biker forum, there are several catholics who attend regularly and speak of these things. I never address it. I speak of Christ as Lord and Savior and quote scripture. I hope and pray for fruit. I did speak against popery once and it did not help.

Hmmmm? I think it less than praise worthy to overly condemn Rome, for the danger of unneeded offense, as our brother of the Vine expressed. Bible students know the issues. I have noticed that many catholic associations and groups have changed some of where emphasis is placed and that is good. Regarding bible study and focus on Christ. It reminds me of back in the 70’s during the charasmatic days, when I knew many catholics converting…even among monks. There was true fellowship with many folks even with differing doctrines. Such can be the case when the Spirit is doing a work and Christ is front and center. Honestly, I miss the simplicity of the days and a young man who was less educated, but knew the Word and knew his Lord as a calf sprung from the stall. There is a sermon in there. :-)

I can see how most forum discussions give that impression, but there are many serious folks here focused on heavenly things. Its just that the meat of the word does not get the drama.

Its an interesting thing, but although my mom was excomminicated for divorce (dad left when I was 4), she made sure I was involved. First communion, confirmation, catechism, alter boy practice, the confessional, etc. I do not recall any clarity about Christ as Savior and the need. Much attention was given to Mary. I did learn the law and the concept of repentance. Those things were instrumental to who I was becoming and indeed affected my choices and behavior when a boy. The rituals, such as ash wednesday, produced a certain sense of awe and respect. Thus, as has always been the case, those sorts of ‘religious’ things appeal to flesh, but have no eternal value. And yet, My Savior used them in some way.

The priest dips his thumb in ashes and forms a cross smudge on the forehead.

Amen! These issues are why it is vital that we fully understand the work of the cross, resurrection and ascension and our inclusion in those events. Salvation is Relocation. that foundation prevents many errors.

He walked with Adam in the Garden. Now He is Lord, God, King, Savior and brother.

Yup and Amen. This is a good opportunity to express this; this is why when a member gets a little heavy, its good to gently mention it in public (at times) or in a friendly PM. SOme folks are just used to a different way and aren't fully aware of the TOS and its intent...being for the good of all. So that all who come here can have a good experience.

Amen sister. This is a good word.

You nailed it when you spoke of origin. Its all about ontology. Everything is. Its a very simple concept and expressed thoroughly in all of Creation. Kind…being and what animates any creature. The key is understanding how that word ‘spirit’ is used from chapter 1 onward. Salvation is Relocation and the real result. God chooses and God does. Creatures are His Clay until He Acts to Change.

I have owned guns since a child. I have often tried to place myself in a (mentally) in a position where when carrying would shoot a person to protect myself. Not sure what I could do. Its another matter to protect someone else. I am thankful, the Lord has not put me in that position.

Perhaps its simply symbolic not for something, but rather the lack of something. Hint.

I suspect most of this stuff is not much more than a distraction for christians, but then I think the same for many who play with end times stuff like kids with toys. Just trust the Lord and look for His Return in due time, while giving reason for the Hope within us. Life is simpler than a box of chocolates.

The church of Rome, had not yet been established--it was 200 years later.

Yes, there are catholics here. THere are an untold number of true believers attached to the Roman church that simply aren't aware of the errors--many having no other experience. Because they are brethren--folks that Christ suffered for just as you and I, we ought to love them and there is a better way to express your thoughts. We can slam folks with our high powered doctrine gun, or actually try to instruct, as the LOrd directs. There is a better way... Phil. 4:5 (NAS20S) Let your gentle spirit be known to all people. The Lord is near. 1Th. 2:7 (NAS20S) But we proved to be gentle among you. As a nursing mother tenderly cares for her own children, 1Tim. 3:3 (NAS20S) not overindulging in wine, not a bully, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money. Titus 3:2 (NAS20S) to slander no one, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing every consideration for all people. James 3:17 (NAS20S) But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, free of hypocrisy. 1Pet. 2:18 (NAS20S) Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are harsh. 1Pet. 3:4 (NAS20S) but it should be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

“so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:7 NAS95)

YUP--I have seen this manifested in different ways over the years. Jesus made an interesting comment to Pilate, if memory serves. He said, my Kingdom is not of this world, if it were, my servants would fight.... This places the battle in a different realm and quite contrary to the battle cry of folks I once fellowshipped with; "Bring it on". The idea was that they were to bring on the Kingdom by taking dominion and living in such a way. This notion has some appeal, but I found misguided.

I think dominion speaks mainly in the context of two kingdoms and that present struggle. The principalities operating in the earthly realm recognize the Life of Christ in us and that authority. It is actionable, when we are in His will at any given time…standing in the breach. Said another way, the enemy can do nothing that God does not allow. God is sovereign and always has been. We err when we imagine there is an actual struggle/fight/war between the Creator and the created. Those words that seem such are metaphorical. Our struggle for the most part, is over our minds….have the mind of Christ. “Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 15:13 NAS95)

“Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 15:13 NAS95)

I don't either brother--getting overly excited leads to mistakes. These issues have been resolved for myself and actually very simple. I am absolutely convinced after much bible study of my point of view. And my views have sure changed over the years. I have done very large word studies on much of this, so I won't repeat here and now. 1. We know a few things about our Lord and God; he is just, merciful, loving and Gracious. These and other characteristics are where all of His choices flow from. 2. Perish, destruction and destroy have actual clear meaning in scripture. As does Sheol, Grave, Gehenna and Tartarus. 3. God does not torture humans, although there will be gnashing of teeth and the suffering of great loss at the judgement. 4. All born of Adam are doomed to final destruction and God has chosen to rescue some through Jesus Christ's work. 5. He is Gracious to every soul that has ever lived in that He has allowed them to live, love, have families and enjoy this Creation. 6. Many of these non-elect, He destroyed before there natural lives ended--He judges. God draws some men to Himself according to His will and Plan. The rest of humanity will simply cease to exist. Grace and Mercy. Gehenna was a trash dump where dead, unconcious, in pain no longer carcasses burned continually. That was where Jews tossed the bodies of babies sacrified to Molech. Jesus did not teach pagan mythology. The dead know nothing--until the resurrection and judgement. The honest student can study these things out. Can you picture 30 minutes in flames? How about a couple hours. A day, a week, a year, 10 years, 100 years in searing flames? God would have to sustain these with eternal life. There is only one kind of eternal Life and that is Christ. My God cannot torture humans for an eternity...that is a doctrine of demons and it has done untold damage. I suggest (reader) getting in your closet and asking the Lord directly, if He will act in such a manner. And do so, without assumptions, but rather with the Word of God as your ally. I hope and pray that minds will be changed.

These matters are only difficult when the entire word of God is not taken into account on a few key issues...all that God has revealed on any given subject. There are no contradictions, when this is done. What is missing with most folks, is the unwillingness to set aside closely held doctrinal high towers (assumptions). This is the result of 'proof texting', to the exclusion of all of scripture.

Salvation is either by God’s choice or it is not. Can’t have it both ways.