GreyJay

Joel 2 is great comfort to me. When we have gone our own way and our lives bear the consequences of that choice, if we repent (v12), "I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten" (v25). God has the authority to restore to us our lost years... wow! There is no such thing as hopelessness with God.

@Tzephanyahu Thanks man, I hadn't thought of the feasts connection to the menorah. You're right about its appearance, I've seen some of the more ancient depictions. I think generally people see the leavened bread on Shavuot to signify the grafting in of gentiles, which is fulfilled by the events at Pentacost. I'm not sure why it would be the center lamp, though, except maybe for the image of the tongues of flame that separate and alight on the believers. I think -- and I could be wrong -- the center lamp is generally thought of as the last lamp, making the menorah look like: 123 7 456 - the center being sukkot. If that's the way we look at it, it's a pretty cool connection to the center lamp being understood as Sabbath, but also the sukkot "7-day rest" (rest on all the days) fulfilled in Rev 21:2-3, but also, maybe, a connection to Messiah as the lamp (i.e., v23). Maybe it's also interesting that the "last lamp" is lit first. I.e., it's both 123 7 456 and 234 1 567: "I am the first and the last," both the Passover lamb and the final, eternal dwelling of God among people.

I am curious about the menorah, and I have a question for those who might know more about it than me. I have read that the center lamp in the menorah is called the "shamash," which can mean "servant" or "helper." I have read some suggestions that this is a reference to Messiah, who is called "the servant" in Isaiah's servant songs. I have also read that the shamash is lit first, then is used to light the other lamps. I was wondering if anyone knows if there is any link understood between the shamash and the "helper" Jesus promised -- the Holy Spirit. If the Jewish NT believers understood the shamash as Jesus, was the symbolism at Pentacost a sign to those believers that their experience then was from Him? i.e., Acts 2:3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.

Thank you for sharing so openly. We have to share the grief of the world together. Isaiah calls Jesus "a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief." Not always -- but sometimes -- it's enough to know that God sits with us in our pain. We have to, somehow, trust the promise that "Those who sow with tears will reap with songs of joy." So we, too, sit with one another in our grief, and hope together in the promises we share in Christ. Psalm 51 says, "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." I take great comfort in that. When everyone seems to push you away because you are broken and used up, and you have nothing left in you to give them, the thing that God accepts is that very brokenness, and when all we have left is need, He won't turn us away.

Yeah, I think everyone here is probably saying the same things but getting hung up on terminology. "It makes sense (is justifiable) to believe in scripture" and "I believe in scripture even though it doesn't make sense (I don't fully comprehend it)" are both valid uses of the term "makes sense," and while they seem contradictory, they're both actually trying to communicate a similar idea, in context.

@nobleseed Oh, okay, you meant logic - the quality of being justifiable by reason. not logic - a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference. If that's the case, don't most people think their "strange conclusions and even stranger beliefs" do make sense and are logical? It seems like the admonition in your op is actually that people should have faith in scripture, in spite of whatever seems to "make sense, and be logical" to them.

@nobleseed I'm not comfortable with releasing my logical mind either, but I do, for a few reasons. The first reason is that life experience has humbled me. If you put your faith in your own ability to reason, but that path leads you into death, darkness and decrease, why continue on that path? If simple faith in God leads you into life, light and increase, why shouldn't that experience be what gives scriptures credibility for us, regardless of our own ability to comprehend it? This was not always my thinking on the subject, but life has taken away my faith in my own logic, and I've come to regard a simple, childlike trust as more valuable in connecting intimately with our Creator, and the life He intends to see us thrive in. Secondly, one of the things I think about regarding logic and scripture is the likelihood that we don't actually have access to all the premises needed to arrive at sound inferences or conclusions. If God has access to knowledge we don't about us, the universe, and Himself, then it seems likely that we would not be able to arrive at logically sound conclusions, since we lack access to the necessary premises. Trusting that the One who does have access to those universal truths has our best interests in mind makes it reasonable to release the need to judge the credibility of scripture by our own ability to understand it logically.

The song "Sing" by C3 Music from the album Saints has almost that exact line. But it's a female vocalist, not all synth, and no "compassion." You can find it on YouTube if you suspect that might be the one. Maybe someone did a cover of it or something. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/561f168ce4b00e84db80e902/t/5628bae3e4b00d6d157681c3/1445509859377/Sing+-+Chart+%2B+Lyrics.pdf

I think it's a sign of maturity when we finally arrive at a point where we just believe God, and we're okay with not fully comprehending Him. I worked in disability for many years as a support worker. I have come across people with significant intellectual disabilities who have a faith so profound it is really more of a knowledge than faith. Somehow, God just connected with them in a way where He made himself real to them to the point where doubt is not a struggle. That is an enviable position to me. The Lord famously teaches that "...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God," and my own experience is that it is the same for intellectual "wealth." My doubt, fed by my own wisdom, has kept me from the Kingdom life in many ways, to my severe detriment. It has always led me into death, darkness, decrease, while simple faith has led me into life, light, and increase. Unfortunately, it has taken great personal tragedy in my life to rip away my faith in myself from under me: "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." Psalm 51:17

God draws people to Himself the way He wants to, right? It's not a super comfortable situation for us to be in if we discredit the work God is doing because it doesn't fit our doctrine. When you experience the power of God in a way that transforms you forever, it's pretty tough be talked out of that experience by someone's doctrinal argument. I really like that. We do have this inherent human need for everything to make sense in a neat and tidy way, but whatever conclusions we arrive at, God is still going to just be God, and God does what He wants.

I think it is extremely important that we are careful to not put stumbling blocks in front of one another. If you say this perspective causes you to pursue a life of discipleship in Christ, and as an ambassador for the Kingdom to others, I see no reason why anyone should try to talk you out of it. You're on the path God set you on, there's no reason to entertain doubt. Steady on!

There's a novel from 1824 by James Hogg that criticizes predestination, called The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner. It's a wild ride -- features a Calvinist serial killer. Check it out if you read books, and like bizarre tales. Anyway, I've seen a ton of fighting over this in the past... My own, purely anecdotal observations are: - People who believe in predestination don't seem to treat it like an excuse to not witness. - People who believe in predestination also seem to want to live the life they're chosen into, not make excuses to keep living the life they left behind (i.e., they don't seem to think of their "predestined" status as a reason to excuse sin, but a reason to pursue purity. - People who don't believe in predestination still seem to appreciate their identity in Christ as His chosen children -- it doesn't seem to cheapen their perspective of God's relationship with them. I think (but I expect someone may have experiences otherwise) that this is kind of a "cosmetic" issue... Where people come down on it doesn't really seem to impact how they actually live as Christians.

That is a grief that's easy to share in. It's Jesus' heart of compassion we feel when we are grieved about injustice. I think our impulse is sometimes to respond to despair with encouragement, hope, resolute determination. And there is a time for that. But sometimes, we do just need to listen to a person without trying to fix them, and share in a moment of solidarity to experience one another's grief together.

Yeah, I see the correlation there. I think the idea that Christians are the temples of the living God is incredibly profound: wherever we go, we bring God (Not that God needs us to bring Him anywhere, but is an honour to be allowed to serve as His hands and feet when he doesn't need us to do anything at all for Him). We are freed from so much as we understand the implications of that more and more deeply.

Yes, there is that to factor in as well. The Acts church also didn't want to burden the new Gentile Christians with too many rules, but it seems like the implication was that they would voluntarily continue to be transformed in other ways as their faith matured. Thanks, good point.