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BibleGuy

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About BibleGuy

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  1. "that generation" is in reference to the generation that sees "all these things take place"....and all those things did NOT yet take place....so it's referring to a future generation...... I think maybe we agree on this.... blessings...
  2. Mt 24:30 (Rev.1:7) is yet future. After all, the great tribulation (Mt.24:21)....evidently described in great detail in Revelation.....is yet future. Thus, Mt. 24:34 must be future.
  3. "I've been studying these verses for years, and all these answers I've heard of countless times, and none of them work. The "answers" are either a play on words/meanings or out of context references to events. " BASELESS accusation. WHERE is your proof of this claim? "Those 3 verses cross reference each other" BASELESS accusation. WHERE is your proof of this claim? "The more it seems Jesus really was preparing for a return within his generation." BASELESS accusation. WHERE is your proof of this claim? "Other than talking to someone who will lullaby you back into faith with sugar coated words." Ahhh....and here we see a glimpse of the REAL problem evidently seeking to hide behind alleged "problems" in the Bible.... An attitude that resists "faith with sugar coated words"..... Very well then. STEP UP TO THE PLATE. SATISFY your OWN burden of proof that you place upon others. Do NOT be a hypocrite, by demanding a standard of proof for others, when you don't even meet that standard yourself! Do NOT give us FAITHLESSNESS WITH VINEGAR-COATED WORDS. DEFEND and JUSTIFY your position. PROVE Your claims. Thus far, you have FAILED to prove the following: 1. "The "answers" are either a play on words/meanings or out of context references to events. "" 2. "Those 3 verses cross reference each other" 3. "The more it seems Jesus really was preparing for a return within his generation." So, if you want OTHERS to prove THEIR viewpoints, then YOU MUST DO THE SAME (or else you're a hypocrite, by definition....) So PROVE YOUR THREE CLAIMS. PROVE them. Don't just type them (and then pretend it's proof). Where's the PROOF, buddy? WHERE'S the beef? I'm hungry...but you're only giving me baseless claims.... And, you've been avoiding the evidential detail in my responses, again confirming you're not willing to follow the evidence where it leads you.....implying that the REAL problem is something else.....a heart that is unwilling to follow evidence..... But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.... So try again.
  4. Of course! Why assume that every child of God is at the same level of understanding of the things of God? Again, you've got no reason for such an assumption.... And, we have reasons to OPPOSE that assumption... Therefore, diversity of opinions amongst God's children is not evidence against the truth of the object of those opinions... Regards...
  5. SAME TORAH (Dt.30:8), or else MOSES IS A FALSE PROPHET. Eeeesh! I must hang you on the horns of this dilemma explicitly! Otherwise, you'll keep acting like Moses is a false prophet! SO CHOOSE NOW! I BEG YOU! OPTION 1: Moses is a TRUE prophet who prophesied that we will, in the future, obey the SAME TORAH which he commanded the Israelites on the day he spoke Dt. 30:8 OPTION 2: Moses is a FALSE prophet who prophesied that we will, in the future, obey the SAME TORAH which he commanded the Israelites on the day he spoke Dt. 30:8 CHOOSE NOW! OPTION 1? or OPTION 2? What's your choice? HINT: Dt. 30:8 "And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day." That's still FUTURE, buddy! Please STOP implying that Dt. 30:8 is a FALSE PROPHECY. Moses is NOT a false prophet. Moses did NOT LIE. thank you!!!!!
  6. "We must be faithful to the changed TORAH." OOPS! Moses said 100% of the SAME TORAH (Dt.30:1-8) will be obeyed even in the FUTURE, when our diaspora ends! This proves it's NOT CHANGED. Otherwise Moses was a false prophet. "New priesthood. " SAME LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD (Dt. 30:1-8;Mal.3:4;Jer.33;Is.66;Zec.14;Eze.40-47). "No one has ever been perfectly obedient - except Yeshua. " Careful! Yeshua says being perfect (Mt.5:48) is EASY (Mt.11:30). I think you, of course, meant to say: No one has ever been sinlesslessly obedient (Rom.3:23) except Yeshua (Heb. 4:15). This is proof that PERFECTION (BLAMELESSNESS) is not the same as SINLESSNESS. "I think the only way to be "lost" (after being justified by the blood of Christ and receiving His Spirit) - is to openly rebel against Him. By that I mean to knowingly continue to do that which He has forbidden, in an attitude of rebellion. Sin "with attitude" if you will. For that, "there remains no sacrifice". By that type of attitude, the person "crucifies the Son of God again". (This is not a sin that you personally hate and struggle against, but have not fully conquered yet. )" I think so too. blessings...
  7. " It's just re-newed. " The SAME TORAH that was DISOBEYED in the Old Covenant (Heb.8:9).... is the SAME TORAH that is properly OBEYED in the NEW Covenant (Heb.8:10). NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8). SAME TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). "And that has been the argument of Messianics - that there's nothing "new"." Well, MESSIANICS is a very diverse group, some of whom are pretty wacky! (but hey....EVERY group has some wacky constituents, eh?) Let's not pretend MESSIANICS is a monolithic unified body....far from it! But yes, SOME people call it the RENEWED Covenant.... But I prefer the BIBLICAL TERM: NEW COVENANT....not because it's NEW Torah....but because it's the same Torah in a new COVENANT..... And there IS something new! The Messiah has come and shown us how to live (TORAH!) The Messiah has promised to return! The Messiah has welcomed us into His family (ISRAEL!) The Messiah has shed His blood to take our sins away, via His Melchizedek Priesthood activity. The Messiah has given us greater revelation about past and future events. The Messiah has authorized Apostles to teach us. The Messiah has modeled his love for us to emulate. But still the same Torah....just with greater insight and revelation and detail.... "Ancient Israelites did not worship Messiah. " They praised THE WORD (Ps.56:4) which includes TORAH (Dt. 1:3;5:27-33;etc) which is the very substance of the Messiah (Jn.1:14;Col.2:17;1Cor.10:4). "Ancient Israelites did not yet know about the Cross of Christ. " Yes....some details are hinted in Is.53....but, of course, much new insight came with the Messiah's first coming. "They didn't know that God has a Son. " Don't be so sure! Ps.2:7 "They didn't know that His Son sits beside Him on His throne." Don't be so sure! Ps. 2 "A lot hinges on one word - "changed". You define it one way, and stick to that definition. Strong's gives more than one definition. " A lot hinges on THE ENTIRE BIBLE.....we can't just pick the definition we like, and then ignore LOTS of other Scriptures which disconfirm that viewpoint. "the priesthood ministering at that Temple will be Melchizedek - NOT LEVITE. " The TEMPLE (Eze.40-47) has LEVITICAL sacrifices performed by sons of ZADOK (Eze.40:46;43:19;44:15;48:11). That's not a Melchizedek operation going on there... They are sacrificing LOTS OF ANIMALS (Eze.40-47). " The Levite only prophesied of the Melchizedek to come" MOSES prophesied of the LEVITICAL priesthood to come (Dt.30:1-8). Moses is NOT a false prophet! Jesus requires the LEVITICAL sacrifices (Mt.5:24). Jesus requires ALL Levitical sacrifices (Mt.5:19). Jesus comes to RESTORE the Levitical sacrifices (Mal.3:4), "as it was in the days of old, as in former years". Levitical sacrifices are prophesied again in Jer.33. Again in Is.66. Again, the forthcoming temple (Eze.40-47) has LEVITICAL sacrifices performed by sons of ZADOK (Eze.40:46;43:19;44:15;48:11). "I go with #1, because the writer of Hebrews names and describes that "new" priesthood - Melchizedek - "the firstborn", which is "put in place of" the Levite/Aaronic. " Hold on....you know I'll never accept it without clear Biblical support! WHERE does the writer of Hebrews describe the Melchizedek priesthood as REPLACING (and not simply GOING or PASSING OVER) the Levitical? After all, you can't use your preferred definition to prove your position, because that's arguing in a circle! You can merely claim that yours is a POSSIBLE interpretation....but MY position is also possible: TO GO OR PASS OVER (not CHANGE!) Jesus PASSES OVER the Levitical Priesthood to pursue His Melchizedek objectives because Jesus is NOT a Levite! (Heb. 7:14) Thus Jesus must PASS OVER (not replace) the Levitical Priesthood rules and transfer His focus upon MELCHIZEDEK rules which actually apply to Him. AND, I've ALREADY shown you multiple examples of Biblical evidence (even of the SAME HEBREWS AUTHOR) confirming that LEVITICAL sacrifices continue: 1. Heb. 8:10 and 10:16 pass the SAME TORAH OF MOSES into the New Covenant. That includes LEVITICAL sacrifices! 2. Heb. 10:1 refers to the ongoing (present tense) shadow function of Torah....confirming Levitical sacrifices CONTINUE. 3. Heb. 8:3 refers to PRESENT TENSE Levitical sacrificial activity, confirming Levitical sacrifices CONTINUE. 4. Heb. 10:11 refers to PRESENT TENSE Levitical sacrificial activity, confirming Levitical sacrifices CONTINUE. 5. Ac. 6:7 has CHRISTIANS as animal-sacrificing priests, confirming ONGOING Levitical sacrifices. 6. Ac. 21:24 has Paul condoning an animal-sacrifice-laden vow to prove he "walks orderly according to the law"...thus confirming ONGOING legitimacy of animal sacrifices. 7. Mt. 5:19 entails sacrifices are required. 8. Mt. 23:2-3,23 confirms sacrifices are required. 9. Mt. 4:4 citing Dt. 8:3 referencing Torah.....again confirms sacrifices are required. 10. Dt. 30:1-8 confirms sacrifices return. 11. Mal.3:4 has Jesus restoring sacrifices. 12. Eze.40-47 has LOTS of FUTURE animal sacrifices. 13. Zec. 6 has Jesus rebuilding a temple....that's where ANIMAL sacrifices happen. 14. Zec. 14 even gives punishment against nations who refuse to partake in the SACRIFICE-laden feast of SUKKOT. 15. Jer.33 assures restoration of Levitical sacrifices to fulfill the Davidic Covenant. 16. Is. 66 assures restoration of Levitical sacrifices to fulfill SABBATH (which requires SACRIFICES). 17. 2Ti.3:16 applies ALL Torah (no exceptions for sacrifices) to believers. 18. 1Cor.7:19 applies ALL Torah (no exceptions for sacrifices) to believers. 19. 1Jn.5:3 applies ALL Torah (no exceptions for sacrifices) to believers. 20. Col.2:17 uses PRESENT TENSE to refer to the ONGOING shadow-function of Torah, even in the New-Covenant era. And on and on and on..... That's a LOT of evidence confirming that your preferred definition should NOT be preferred! Let's prefer the HARMONISTIC alternative.... Let's not needlessly force ourselves to explain away the above 20 lines of reasoning.... I can't even imagine how you'd explain all those 20 reasons away... blessings...
  8. " That's a whopping lot of people - who didn't/don't "really" understand what God did by sending His Son to die for us. " Welcome to the family of ISRAEL....where we PERISH for lack of KNOWLEDGE (Hos.4:6). Welcome to the family of ISRAEL....where we consider Torah a STRANGE THING (Hos.8:12). Welcome to the family of ISRAEL....where we prefer STIFF-NECKS (Dt.10:16;Ac.7:51) rather than loving Torah-obedience as desired by the Spirit. To be sure, Jer. 31:34 is NOT yet fulfilled! "I just can't believe that system of killing - that giant slaughter house, is "needed" for folks to understand what God did for us. " Depends on how much detail you need....depends on your audience.... You can keep it REALLY simple and basic....or you can plumb the depths of the knowledge of God..... Not everybody can handle everything all at once. " I do NOT BELIEVE that system was still needed for folks after "the Cross" to believe in Yeshua as Savior. " Sure....the diaspora was still in force even then (Jas.1:1)....and there's only so much you can do while in diaspora.... But don't worry! WE WILL again obey 100% of ALL Torah (including sacrifices), in the future....otherwise Moses is a false prophet (Dt.30:1-8). "I do believe "the Feasts of the LORD" will be celebrated in the earth made new. NOT with the slaughter of animals, but with Christ Himself, and with His Melchizedek priests. " They are also called FEASTS OF ISRAEL (Eze.45:17). And they include ANIMAL SACRIFICES (Eze.40-47)..... And they include LEVITICAL priests of the seed of ZADOK (Eze.40:46;43:19;44:15;48:11).... That's NOT a Melchizedek Priesthood going on there.... After all, Jesus comes to RESTORE that very Levitical priesthood "as it was in the days of old, as in former years" (Mal.3:4). blessings...
  9. Nothing Jesus did in Jn. 8 violates Torah.....otherwise Jesus would be a SINNER! (Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4). AND, John 8 is a textual variant....and it doesn't even show up in all Greek manuscripts..... That's pretty shaky ground for a position.... Besides, you haven't even proven that the conditions in Jn. 8 were satisfied to require IMMEDIATE stoning (per Torah) as the accusers allegedly desired. And, you've assumed that a fair trial would not first be required by applying rules pertaining to evidence. And, the accusers walked away, thus confirming they either were FALSE WITNESSES, or they RETRACTED their accusation for some reason. And, Jn. 8:6 confirms it was a bogus case anyway, because the accusers were simply trying to find "ground for accusing" Jesus, which makes no sense if Jesus would have been following proper Torah protocol by immediately requiring stoning of the woman. So again, we don't even see reasonable requisite conditions for Torah-sanctioned death penalty in Jn. 8, even if you think Jn. 8 is not a bogus textual variant. Guess you're wrong again! "Mercy and Compassion could trump Law" OOPS! MERCY is given to those who OBEY Torah (Ex.20:6). God has COMPASSION upon those who OBEY Torah (Dt. 13:17-18). "Some In here would be salivating to “ cast the first stone”...." Rather, we desire mercy (in obedience) rather than sacrifice (due to disobedience). Hos.6:6. blessings...
  10. " This can be defined as "enduring", "works", Lifestyle" "commandment keeping", "Torah keeping"....whatever it is that is KEEPING YOU out of Hell, in your mind, that= isn't JESUS " JESUS said TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE leads to THIS ======> Mt.5:19. Mt. 5:20. Mt. 7:21-23. Mt. 13:41-42. Why would anybody want that? Jesus said your are His disciple IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS WORD (Jn.8:31) which includes TORAH (Mt.5:19). Paul said you are saved by the Gospel IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-4) which is the word of FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8). "you are what Paul has defined as a person who has "fallen....FROM......Grace"." WRONG. Gal. 5:4-5 opposes people who seek justification by law WITHOUT FAITH. That's why Paul requires justification by law (Rom.2:13) AND FAITH (Rom.5:1). BOTH. TOGETHER. After all, faith is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138). ".Its called SELF-RIghteousness" Yes, works without faith is self-righteous and USELESS. So be justified by FAITH (Rom.5:1) and WORKS (Jas.2:24) TOGETHER! After all, Paul requires ALL TORAH (2Ti.3:16) to rebuke and correct you in RIGHTEOUSNESS. ""FLESH"..... where you are trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, and you have your list. " Rather, the FLESH DISOBEYS TORAH (Rom.8:7). So don't be in the flesh! (Rom.8:13). OBEY Torah instead! "JESUS THE LORD... is Grace. " And GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5). And HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Ex.33:13;Zep.2:3). So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) entails OBEYING TORAH. So OBEY! After all, JESUS THE LORD requires ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20). So OF COURSE you should obey! "You've left your faith in him and now you are trusting in what YOU DO" No. What we DO could never pay the price paid by Christ in His blood. "as this has become your SAVIOR" That would be terrible! JESUS saves us from sins (Mt.1:21). SIN is Torah-disobedience (Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4). So Jesus saves us from Torah-disobedience. So OBEY! "Paul also teaches that when a person teaches a "gospel" that does not give full credit to God and Christ for saving you and keeping you saved, then the "gospel" you are preaching is perverted" That very PAUL says we are saved IF WE HOLD FAST TO THE WORD HE PREACHES (1Cor.15:1-4) which is the word of FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8). Of COURSE Christ saved us..... That's no excuse for us to disobey Torah now. STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34) means OBEY TORAH (given Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4). So OBEY! "and its trying to subvert the truth" TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142), required by Paul (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16;1Cor.13:6). So don't subvert Torah truth! OBEY! "This is the devil's work. " Yes....the devil is bad....the devil inspires the antichrist to be the man of TORAH-LESSNESS (2Th.2:2-3).... ANTI-CHRIST opposes Torah (2Th.2:2-3). JESUS CHRIST requires Torah (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28). Make sure you're working for the right team! " they do it on forums like this one." True....Torah is widely opposed in some churches....and in some forums....even in this forum..... So be sure to obey the TORAH! After all, Torah passes into the New Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10) inaugurated in Christ's very blood for you (Lk.22:20). So OBEY! Or DISOBEY (and face these risks: Mt. 5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42). I choose to OBEY. Hope you do too! blessings....
  11. Jesus preaches: DISOBEY TORAH AND EXPERIENCE THIS =====> Mt. 5:19 or worse (Mt.5:20) or worse (Mt.7:21-23) or worse (Mt.13:41-42) Not sure why ANYBODY would want to disobey, in light of these WORDS OF JESUS. blessings....
  12. Yes, we are instantly justified by faith. But Biblical faith is Torah-obedient faith....so subsequent faithful Torah-obedient is Biblical and expected and required and commanded and proper. "There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do! " But you can lose your justification (Eze.18;Heb.6:4-6;Heb.10:26-27). And you are cleansed by the blood (1Jn.1:7) IF you walk in the light (1Jn.1:7) which is TORAH (Ps.119:105). You are His disciple IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS WORD (Jn.8:31) which requires ALL TORAH (Mt. 5:19;23:2-3,23). You are saved by the Gospel IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-5) which includes FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt.30:14 at Rom.10:8). So let's not disregard the CONDITIONAL aspects of salvation/justification. Conditional upon what? Conditional upon WORKS. We must be justified by WORK WE DO (Jas.2:24). We must WALK IN WORKS (Eph.2:10). Works of what? TORAH! (Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:3;Eze.18:5-9;2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:20;1Cor.7:19;1Jn.5:3;Ac. 10:35). "Good works come into the picture, because they are THE RESULT of our new friendship relationship with Christ" Abraham was God's friend (Is.41:8), chosen by God BECAUSE ABRAHAM OBEYED GOD'S COMMANDS (Ge.26:5). Let's be like our father Abraham....and be chosen by God BECAUSE we obey God's commands with faith (Ge.15:6). blessings...
  13. "If it were a future event that wouldn't affect that current generation, the information would be recorded in revelation (as it was)" Again wrong....you have no justification for the claim that you are wise enough to inform us of the detailed manner in which God would inspire the Scriptures. Thus, you simply DO NOT KNOW that "If it were a future event that wouldn't affect that current generation, the information would be recorded in revelation". That's just another unjustified assumption. "Also then, why would Jesus explain signs to a people that wouldn't be alive to experience it?" First, it's not your job to understand WHY Jesus does everything that He does! After all, His ways are ABOVE your ways (Is.55:9;Rom.11:33). And, obviously, a plausible reason is because Jesus knew that many future centuries of Christians would be learning from those words He was speaking! After all, speech is not always directed to INDIVIDUALS....it can also be directed to BODIES or GROUPS of peoples. "So far of all the vague baseless answers to these verses" You've not proven my answer was vague and baseless. SET FORTH your justification for your claim that my answer was vague and baseless, or RETRACT your baseless claim that my response was vague and baseless. Until then, you are not showing signs of being genuine. Rather, you dismiss good answers, and you call them "vague and baseless", and you don't even prove that they are vague and baseless. Try again. This time, PROVE your claims....with EVIDENCE. Otherwise, you are just typing unsupported opinions on a keyboard..... Regards....
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