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Resurrection Priest

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  1. Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." In the "hell" Jesus spoke of here, BOTH soul and body will be destroyed. But folks who believe in a present place called "Hell", believe that only the spirit (or soul) goes to Hell - NOT the "body". We bury the "body" and it decays away. If the "Hell" Jesus is speaking of is the place or event where BOTH the souls and bodies of the rebellious will finally be destroyed, then it cannot be the one most believe in. The word for "hell" in this verse is the Greek word "Gehenna" (Strong's #1067). It was a burning garbage dump, just south of Jerusalem. The fires were kept burning, and of course the worms kept eating. It was originally the valley of Hinnom, where the wicked kings of Judah had worshiped idols and offered human child sacrifices (Jer 7:31-33). Jeremiah the prophet said the land was cursed. So of course, no one wanted to build on that land after Judah was allowed to return from Babylon. They turned it into a garbage dump. They threw dead animals in there, and even the bodies of executed criminals. But they NEVER threw live people in there! At the end of this age, this earth will be "burned up" by the "fire" of God. Bible does say, "Our God is a consuming fire." Bible does describe how many will be "consumed by the glory of God" - the "fire". That "fire" doesn't go out, it is "eternal fire" because that "fire" is God Himself. Satan is turning this earth into a garbage dump. By the end of this age, with the final nuclear wars, the trumpet judgments, and the final plagues - it WILL BE a garbage dump - just like Gehenna. So what was Jesus saying? He was saying that if we don't go with Him, we end up as garbage - completely destroyed, "body and soul". The "ungodly" are not punished til the end of the age - and judgment day. Hell of NOT going on now. 2 Peter 3:7 “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they [the angels] gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” NOTE: The fire appears to be burning what is already dead. This agrees with the image of Isaiah 66:24, and Jesus’ prophecy in Mark 9:45-46. The fire will consume the corpses. Matthew 13:49-50 “So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Remember the wicked are resurrected to face judgment. Daniel 12:1-2) Matthew 13:41-42 “The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. Here's a couple more where Jesus spoke of the "whole body" being "cast into Gehenna". Matthew 5:29 “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell [gehenna].” (See also Matt. 18:9 and Mark 9:47.) Matthew 5:30 “. . . it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell [gehenna].” (See also Mark 9:43-44.) NOTE: Essentially Jesus is saying that even the loss of an eye or the right hand, is preferable to the loss of eternal life. We note especially that the physical body of the lost person will be cast into Gehenna as a “whole body,” with two hands, two feet, and two eyes - not as a disembodied spirit. Even the Greeks did not believe that the physical body went to “Hades.”
  2. I am repeating part of my post from yesterday. Lots of folks quote Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:2,3. "Absent from the body, present with the LORD". Paul here was speaking of his own condition while in vision. I will leave you to look up that one. The other passage of Paul is 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. In this passage Paul describes THREE states. 1. “earthy house” - “this tent” - “in this we groan” - “at home in the body” - “absent from the Lord”. So this is the physical body we all go through life in. 2. “a building from God” - “a house eternal in the heavens” - “further clothed” - “clothed with our habitation from heaven” - “mortality swallowed up of life” - “absent from the [physical] body” - “present with the Lord”. This is the "spiritual body" (1Cor 15:44) those "in Christ" will receive at the Glorious Return, when we are "changed" at the resurrection. 3. “being clothed we shall not be found naked” - “unclothed” To be without either body - the physical one or the spiritual one - is to be dead (naked), but completely remembered by GOD who will resurrect.
  3. If you believe that man was created with an "immortal soul" (two words not used together in Scripture), then you would also have to believe that a person's "soul" has to go somewhere (Heaven or Hell or Purgatory) when that person dies. I personally believe that death is an unconscious sleep. That is consistent with many, many passages of Scripture. So - no reason for a conscious "soul" to leave the body and go anywhere. Acts 7:60 Stephen “fell asleep.” Acts 13:36 David “fell asleep.” I Thessalonians 4:14-15 “those who are asleep” I Corinthians 15:6,18 “some have fallen asleep” I Corinthians 11:30 “many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep” Psalm 13:3 “lest I sleep the sleep of death” Daniel 12:2 “them that sleep in the dust” Job 3:13 “then I should have slept” Job 14:12 “nor be raised out of their sleep” Jeremiah 51:39 “and sleep a perpetual sleep” Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (KJV) Body + Spirit = "soul", or "being", a "nephesh" or "breather - #05315 Man (a being) only has two parts - physical body + spirit (breath or wind or unseen force). Without a "body" one is not alive. Lots of folks quote Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:2,3. Paul here was speaking of his own condition while in vision. I will leave you to look up that one. The other passage of Paul is 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. In this passage Paul describes THREE states. 1. “earthy house” - “this tent” - “in this we groan” - “at home in the body” - “absent from the Lord”. So this is the physical body we all go through life in. 2. “a building from God” - “a house eternal in the heavens” - “further clothed” - “clothed with our habitation from heaven” - “mortality swallowed up of life” - “absent from the [physical] body” - “present with the Lord”. This is the "spiritual body" (1Cor 15:44) those "in Christ" will receive at the Glorious Return, when we are "changed" at the resurrection. 3. “being clothed we shall not be found naked” - “unclothed” To be without either body - physical or spiritual - is to be dead, but completely remembered by GOD who will resurrect.
  4. The passage you site in 2Thessalonians is talking about those "in Christ" - those "written in the Book". About what will happen for them - at the Glorious Return. What will happen to the enemies of God is NOT ADDRESSED in the passage you sited. Daniel 12:1-2 describes TWO types of people, in a massive resurrection. Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then [the last plagues]. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book-- will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Revelation 19:20 describes how "the beast" and "the false prophet" will be throne into the "lake of fire" at the Glorious Return. Those are not just two people. They are massive systems that deceived and warred against the people of God and Christ. Revelation 20:5 speaks of the THIRD GROUP - "the rest of the dead". They are NOT RESURRECTED at the Glorious Return. "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years are finished. (This is the first resurrection.)" These do not belong to Christ. They also are not raised "to shame and everlasting contempt". Why? Because they did not yet CHOOSE. Why? Because they lived and died in ignorance. It is only just, that they be allowed to HEAR and then to CHOOSE. If not - then they are just collateral damage. I don't believe our GOD will leave anyone behind, who might have been saved, had they HEARD.
  5. I think the ignorant are still "without God" and "without hope" because eternal life is received ONLY through Christ. He is the only way. Definitely says the LORD holds people more guilty, the more they are aware of. The reason why James said "let not many of you aspire to be teachers, for they will be held to a higher standard". Those ignorant of "the law" are not guilty of rebellion against GOD. That's what they are "not guilty" of. They still have "sinned". It's just that the blood of Jesus "covers" their sins of ignorance, until they become aware of them. That happens when they HEAR of GOD, and become aware of HIS Law. The morning/evening "continual" sacrifice "covered" sins of ignorance, UNTIL the sinner was made aware that he had sin. THEN a sin offering was required. This "covering" is why "the rest of the dead" can be resurrected at the 8th millennium, HEAR the Gospel and the Law, and then have to CHOOSE whom they will serve. Based on that CHOICE, they will either enter the Kingdom of GOD, or be consumed by the fire of GOD at Gog/Magog.
  6. Definition #1 of the English word "moral" is: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character. I think folks here would agree that only GOD defines what is "right" and therefore what is "wrong". The English word "moral" is not used in very many translations. I found it used only once or twice in most translations. A few examples: CJB (Complete Jewish Bible - English Translation) Job 4:3, says that Job gave "moral instruction". LXA (Brenton LXX with Apocrapha) 4 Maccabees 2:21 "For at the time when God created man, He implanted within him his passions and moral nature." NAS (New American Standard) 2 Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, NET (New English Translation) uses "moral" in several verses: Job 1:22; Psa 19:11; Psa 111:10; Pro 1:2,3,7,29; Pro 2:10, Isa 2:3, Daniel 9:13; Amo 2:7 NET Daniel 9:13 "Just as it is written in the law of Moses, so all this calamity has come on us. Still we have not tried to pacify the LORD our God by turning back from our sin and by seeking wisdom from your reliable moral standards." NET Isaiah 2:3 "many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the LORD's mountain, to the temple of the God of Jacob, so he can teach us his requirements, and we can follow his standards." For Zion will be the center for moral instruction; the LORD will issue edicts from Jerusalem." NET Psalm 111:10 "To obey the LORD is the fundamental principle for wise living; all who carry out his precepts acquire good moral insight. He will receive praise forever. NIV (New International Version) James 1:21 "Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you." In the New King James Romans 2:26 "Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?" Here, "the law" defines what is "right". Another common term is "lawful" - according to the law. Romans 2:26 confirms that the converted Gentiles were not practicing physical circumcision (something commanded in addition to the 10 of "the Covenant"), and we know most were not going up to Jerusalem to offer sacrifices, yet they WERE keeping "the righteous requirements of the law". I think we can support the Ten Commandments being "righteous requirements", therefore "moral" requirements. Those requirements can be "kept" without going up to Jerusalem, and without submitting to physical circumcision. Some, I'm sure, would want to separate "the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2) from "the law" spoken by the LORD from above Sinai. They forget perhaps that the Son of God, as the "one mediator" from "the beginning", was the One who spoke that Covenant, and then wrote it on the tables of stone. Matthew 22:27-40 Jesus said to him, "`You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the first and great commandment. "And the second is like it:`You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (NKJ) Folks today can "love the LORD" and love their neighbor, WITHOUT offering sacrifices, and WITHOUT physical circumcision.
  7. The nature of man (naturally mortal or naturally immortal) is for another thread. We have gone way off subject.
  8. Are you a universalist? Do you believe that every human being will be saved?
  9. You are making this personal - rather than a discussion on the interpretation of Bible passages. My life, and my husband's life is NOT to be picked apart by you, so you can judge whether we are "saved" according to your criteria. I was wrong to describe anything that I personally experienced.
  10. It all depends upon whether they are reading and studying the Bible, and are lead of God's Spirit. It doesn't depend on "a man". Bibles were dropped into North Korea and China. People there read and studied. They were lead of God's Spirit. They believed.
  11. Romans 10:14 “But how are they to call on One in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in One of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim Him?” (NRS) Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.” (NRS) Hearing the gospel message - is essential! There are millions of human beings who have died without any knowledge of God or of His Son. They must be resurrected, so that they can hear. II Timothy 1:9 Grace was given before time began, but has now been “revealed through the gospel.” The grace of God was “given before time began”. Yes - God pledged the life of His only Son. Yes - God has protected men from complete control by demons, and from complete annihilation. But that grace is now revealed through the telling of the gospel. The “call” to salvation in Christ is information based. The information was/is conveyed through preaching, or teaching, first by Jesus Himself and then by His followers. Upon hearing the gospel, individuals must respond in order to appropriate that grace for themselves. Salvation is not passive. The LORD will not save you, without a response on your part. 2 Corinthians 5:19-20 “Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.” Ephesians 1:13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,” Heard - believed - trusted - sealed with the Spirit - confessed and shared the good news. This is the order of things.
  12. Here is Paul, writing to the believers - former non-Hebrew pagans. Ephesians 2:11 “Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (which is done in the body by human hands)-- 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world” (NIV). "Without hope and without God" sounds very "lost" to me. How did those people become born again believers? Answer: They HEARD the Gospel preached to them - by Paul, and others. Here is Paul complaining to the authorities that he must be allowed to preach the Gospel. I Thessalonians 3:16 [Persecution by Jews and pagans] “forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved,” To paraphrase Paul, “If we don’t speak to the Gentiles about Christ, they cannot be saved.” You must HEAR the truth, to BELIEVE it. What is the point of Jesus command to "go therefore and teach all nations", if folks can know about "God" and "His eternal power and Godhead" without being taught? Romans 1:18-20 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness, of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse . . .” First: The text is speaking of "wrath" against "men who suppress the truth". One must at least have the conviction of truth, before one can knowingly "suppress the truth". If just looking at the works of creation was enough to convince anyone that Yahweh exists, and is a God of love, and has a law which everyone must obey, then there would be NO SUCH THING as “sins of ignorance” - not since folks began looking at the stars. But since there were “times of ignorance” and God “overlooked” those times, this means just looking at the natural universe does NOT tell everyone about the attributes of the God of the Bible. Acts 17:30 “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent” [when they HEAR the truth] (NKJ). Now - since Darwin, science (so called) has convinced most folks that everything evolved from a bit of planetary dust? No evolutionary theory was taught back in Paul's day, as fact. Secular archeologists mock the Bible as a historical book, saying the prophecies and laws were all written much later by priests and prophets who stood to profit.
  13. I believe they will be resurrected at the 8th millennium (1000 years after Jesus glorious return). Then they will have to learn about Jesus. And then they will have to choose whether to serve Jesus and His Father. Satan will be "loosed" at the 8th millennium, and he will seek to deceive folks into hating Jesus, or at least ignoring Him.
  14. Even people living "in paradise" - in the wonderful earth before the Flood of Noah, still had to get on "the boat". And Satan is loosed at that point, so he will mess things up - make people mean and selfish. So it won't be all good. People will still be tested. Satan will be out trying to deceive. Revelation 20:7 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea."
  15. Think I understand what you're saying. Just do not understand our nature that way.
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