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shiloh357 last won the day on June 22

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About shiloh357

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  • Birthday 03/07/1967

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    Standing for Israel and defending Israel from Islam, anti-Zionism and Replacement theology.

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  1. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    Good for you.
  2. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    I am not going to argue with you about this. If you don't like it that the IMB isn't operating to your liking, then you can contact them and advise them how they could do better.
  3. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    I am familiar with several missionaries around the world and I am familiar with their expenses and they get what convention has agreed to pay them. Some of them take the money they receive and put that money back into the ministries they are involved in. They work hard and have sacrificed a lot to serve and some of them are serving in areas that are very hostile to the Gospel and they literally risking their lives. So I don't have a problem with the salaries they being paid. If you think it is wrong for them to receive those salaries, you are free to write to the IMB and explain that to them.
  4. shiloh357


    Not all division is bad.
  5. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    You have to consider that the money they get is not what they get to keep. Most of that money is spent (depending on where they are) on Rent, utilities, food, taxes,tithes retirement, airfare, visas, vaccinations, vehicles, vehicle insurance, vehicle maintenance and fuel, maintain a phone and other communication devices, miscellaneous and personal care, clothing, prescriptions, medical bills, just about everything it takes to live here in the US. And not only that, but they have to pay for their kids' education, as well. They are not getting rich at all. All of those expenses add up and so while it looks like they get a lot of money, they really don't. It doesn't interfere with personal relationships. That is nonsense. What interferes with personal relationships is when the pastor allows people to get too close to him and they end up feeling that they have in-road with the pastor that others don't have and other church members are rightfully concerned that the pastor is picking favorites. And despite what you think, you are not qualified to judge the motives of others and why they serve.
  6. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    There are zoning laws and residential areas are not zoned for churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. That means that hosting a church every week in your home violates those laws and we are Christians are to obey the laws of the land per Rom. 13: 1-7. Try having a block party EVERY Friday night on the same street and see how that goes over. But, more to the point, a one-time block party cannot be compared with having cars lining residential streets on both sides because the whole block is aware of it and participating. That is isn't the same thing as having a private church service in your home every week. There is no point of comparison. I have had to avoid certain streets when people had estate auctions in the neighborhood and there were cars up and down the street and on nearby streets as well and it was pretty annoying it turned them into one-lane streets and it was really problematic for those living in the area or anyone passing through. It was tolerated because it was a one-time event for just a few hours, but it did pose a safety hazard, nonetheless. That would not be tolerated week after week. Yeah, it would be nice if everything would just work out the way you have it choreographed in your mind, wouldn't it? If all of the conditions were right, and the weather always cooperated and everyone lived in the right places and so on. And if there were no zoning laws to contend with... But more to the point... You have not really made a case that how we "do church" today is wrong or ineffective. I get that you would prefer a house church model. That's your preference and if that is what you want, then you are free to set it up the way you prefer with others of like mind. No one is against the house church model. The problem with your OP is that it holds the house church model up as THE correct way to do church and that the house model is the only truly God-ordained model. You have not made a case against our current model. You have complained about it and why you don't like it, but so far, it appears that this is really just about your preference. The fact is that the current model doesn't violate any doctrine of Scripture. There is a reason why the Bible doesn't establish a particular model. The Bible doesn't prescribe a particular order of service and give us a list of what "church" is supposed to look like. So you really no right to sit in judgement on how we "do church" today as if you know a better way and thus hold it up as the "biblical" way to do church. Yes, but that is not an argument against anything I have said. The fact that other secular organizations do the same thing is irrelevant. By that logic, you would have to argue against Samaritan's Purse ministries because there are other humanitarian/relief organizations out there. That makes no sense. The Church doesn't retreat from helping others because there are other non-Christian groups doing the same thing. Rather, That is not a cogent argument against having a church building to facilitate those kinds of ministries. The difference is that churches see those things as ministries, not simply as humanitarian activities. That's ridiculous. It is not "either/or." It is not the case that we can engage in humanitarian endeavors OR we can give people the Gospel. You are trying to manufacture a problem that doesn't exist. And I tell you this from experience.... People are far more willing to listen to you present the Gospel when you have fed their hungry children. When you have blessed them with needed help, and they see that you care about them, they are far and away more willing to listen as you share Jesus with them. I am not talking about social justice. I am talking about helping the poor. Social justice is not about actually helping the poor as it is about impoverishing everyone. But what you call a "negative" isn't negative. No one who is looking at this objectively would see any negative in the church using its facilities to help the poor. YOU see it as a negative only because it doesn't fit your preferred church model. That's because you don't know what you're talking about and you are trying pass off your preferences as THE biblical model and it is causing you to think that you are somehow qualified to sit in judgement on the rest of us and how we do church. Small groups are not typically large enough to be a problem in residential areas because they are kept small, and because small groups don't always meet in houses. Many times, small group ministries are also done at the church in order not to be nuisances to neighbors and small groups also engage in social activities such as meeting at a restaurant, or for a some kind of fun event. So, it is not always the case that a small group only meets in homes. We use a portion of the weekly tithes and we pay the missionaries and having that model means that they don't have come home and ask people from money, which tends to rub people the wrong way. They can come home, relax, recharge the batteries without having to worry about raising support. They are already "supported." That risk is always present no matter what you do or don't do. Paying pastors a salary or not, really has no bearing on what makes them "hirelings." A hireling doesn't care about the flock, and is not genuinely called into ministry. That can be true with or without a salary. So you think that is how it works??? Most pastors are already ordained long before the go to Seminary. And ordination, generally, never takes place except in the case that the pastor meets the qualifications. No, we are not straying from anything. There is no doctrine established in these matters. You simply prefer a particular method and that's fine. But so far you have not demonstrated any doctrine or teaching from Scripture that is being violated. I am not saying that seminary is guarantee that someone will not end up being false teacher. But people like Bart Ehrman and Rob Bell did not come out of seminary like the false teachers they are now. They have chosen that path in contradiction to how they were taught. They were, at one time, sound teachers, but they chose to abandon Scripture. That is something they will give account for at the throne. Seminary didn't produce them, as false teachers. Rob Bell and Driscoll and Ehrman are exceptions to the rule. But exceptions to the rule, don't negate the rule. Seminary hones skills of qualified men. You will not be received into a seminary as a student if you don't meet the biblical qualifications for the ministry. But seminary is more than just going to classes. There is a lot of hands on, practical down-to-earth ministry that takes place, that seminary students participate in while students. They learn a lot of practical hands-on skills and they learn the legal ramifications of ministry that an untrained person isn't aware of. Ministry isn't just sitting around teaching and preaching. That is 1% of what a pastor does. Untrained pastors who were simply picked out of a congregation to be the "pastor" end up getting themselves in a lot of trouble because of what the don't know about ministry and how to cover themselves legally. You can get in a lot of legal trouble, even if you're innocent of any wrong doing and you have to know what to do to either stay out of trouble, or how to deal with it if you do get into trouble. Facing the legal perils of ministry unprepared will being reproach to the ministry and to the Gospel. Which only demonstrates why I said that you don't know what you're talking about. There are no awkward relationships between teh pastor and those in the congregation simply because they are drawing a salary. And most pastors don't "perform." But again, you have all this set in your mind and you will likely run with what you think as opposed to actual facts. That's between them and the elders. Most elders are not "lay men" per se. Many elders are actually ordained ministers, in some cases retired ministers. Southern Baptist Churches don't have elders. "Elders" are usually found in other denominations and they are men who are qualified to be elders. I don't know if they are paid, or not. I don't really care. Nothing unbiblical or unchristian is being done, so no need for any kind of introspection. I don't need to be introspective about anything you have said namely because you haven't really produced any evidence that how we "do church" today is any less right than your preferred model.
  7. shiloh357

    Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

    I can only answer this from the standpoint of someone living in teh US. One reason we don't do house churches very much is that house churches in our current context are impractical and in some cases, violate peripheral laws. What I mean is that in most places, too many cars parked along the side the street are not only nuisance to the neighboring residents, but they create a safety hazard for emergency vehicles trying to get through in order to reach someone needing help. And there are zoning laws that must be adhered to. Having a small Bible study is not a problem, but any kind of significant "house church" runs the risk of violating the law and getting homeowner is legal hot water. It is important to understand that the Bible does not hold up the church model in the first century as the model for all churches in the future. Secondly, there is nothing unbiblical about having a large church building. Large churches in my area open up their facilities to homeless people and this last winter when temps in our area were something like 15 degrees below zero, those big buildings came in handy and took the burden off of the city to find places to house the homeless. That would not have been possible in that area of town since there were no other place to put them. The churches stepped up and filled the need that was there. Some even provided donuts and coffee each morning for those they housed overnight. Church buildings, especially the larger ones, are available for a lot of events and often work in tandem with public events and provide their facilities for them. That means they get greater exposure, especially to the unchurched who get to experience being in church in a setting that is more comfortable and find that the people in the church are not scary, but genuinely care about the community. There are all kinds of community services that churches provide that simply would not be possible in homes. There are all kinds of outreaches that are possible because a church has the facility to house those outreaches and the resources to engage in those outreaches, particularly when it comes to food banks, clothing banks as well as community events that highlight needs like shelters for battered women, as well as missions training and so on. That is why most churches have Sunday School on Sunday mornings and why they have small group ministries throughout the week that help meet the need of personal interaction. There is no way anyone can get to know EVERYONE in a large church, so small groups and Sunday School classes provide that intimacy of fellowship that each member wants and needs. They are often set up so that classes and small groups are age appropriate and members of each group generally share the same demographic make up (single, college age, married, senior adult, etc). That's where the ministry really takes place. Churches underwrite missionaries and they even use their own resources to plant other churches around the world through cooperative giving. Missionaries around the world are paid from the giving of the church members and many, many times, people dictate in their last will and testimony that their estate being given to local churches for ministry purposes. There are many, many missionaries that don't have to worry about raising money just to meet basic needs for food and clothing because the local churches share of their resources to fund mission work, start churches, send doctors, Bibles, food and other resource abroad. I am a Southern Baptist and we pay not only our missionaries' salaries when abroad, but we also pay for and maintain homes for them for when they come back to the US on furlough and they don't have to pay a penny for housing and they still get their salary when they are state side and don't have bother with raising money to feed their kids. Everything is paid for, courtesy the local churches and their cooperative giving program. So why pay pastors? Why not? Pastors are tasked with having, in many cases, to be the only paid staff member in most churches. Most churches are small and 80% of them in the US have less than 100 people. Many pastors are bi-vocational and have to work secular job, if they are in small church. But pastoring takes a lot of time and there is nothing wrong or unbiblical about paying pastors for their time in ministry. That does not violate any church doctrine. That's called ordination and it still happens today in local churches all of the time. We do that because we want competent ministers who actually know what they are talking about and are not false teachers. Seminary isn't easy. It is tough on the student and his family. Seminary reveals one's work ethic. And if you want to minister effectively seminary is a good thing. Billy Graham once said, "If your goal is to chop down a forest, the time you spend sharpening your axe is not wasted." We expect doctors and lawyers and car mechanics to be competent, pastors are dealing with people's eternal destiny and there is no margin for error on that. Competent pastors are a blessing to the body of Christ. Seminaries provide doctrinal training as well as practical training on things like marriage and family counseling, church administration, as well as how to conduct funerals, weddings. You learn from seasoned men who have been in the mission field, or who are retired from 50 years of pastoring and have an immense amount of wisdom for young preachers and can mentor them and advise them help them avoid pitfalls in ministry. Seminary provides networks for pastors. Most people don't know this, but most pastors have no close friends. They don't (generally speaking) have fishing buddies, or golf buddies because the minute someone finds out you're a pastor, they are not comfortable with you. Pastors often find it very hard to have close friends and you cannot have close friends in the church you serve as pastor for fear of "church politics" rearing its ugly head. Seminaries provide camaraderie and hopefully good connections with other pastors in the future. Most churches that are larger DO pay multiple ministry staff members. It appears that you really don't know what goes on in the ministry sphere of most churches and are operating from a severe lack of information.
  8. shiloh357

    Immigrating to The Philippines

    The Church is not tasked with resolving homelessness and poverty. The Church's commission is to preach the Gospel, not end poverty and homelessness. You need to get off the liberal, far left social justice garbage.
  9. shiloh357

    Immigrating to The Philippines

    What is immoral is parents who send their children out among a crowd of drug cartels and human traffickers, across burning deserts with no water and no support simply because they don't have the money to take of them any longer. They have found a socially acceptable way to commit child neglect and abandonment: Send them to the US so that they are someone else's financial burden.
  10. Last November I wrote an article listing a number of things I didn’t think I would see in my lifetime. Prophecy Update even turned it into a short video that almost 200,000 people have viewed. Now six months later, I’ve come up with another list of unbelievable happenings that I never thought I would live to see. Sure, we live in crazy times. A lot of things the Bible predicted are now happening at break-neck speed but it still leaves me speechless. Here’s my updated list I never thought I’d live to see: • Churches would not just recognize the Islamic holiday known as Ramadan, they would join in on the “celebration” while hundreds of innocents were being killed at the very same time. • Women’s sporting activities would be curtailed because transgenders can now participate as women even though they are males. • The WWII anti-Nazi term “the resistance” would be applied to those opposed to a U.S. President — Donald Trump. • Lucifer would get his own TV show, first on the Fox Network and now on Netflix. In fact, he is glorified as a good guy — handsome, charming, and funny. Some day Christ-rejecters won’t be laughing. • Netflix will also have an animated drag queen series for children. (But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea: Matthew 18:6). • I would turn on any form of media and the only story being talked about would be President Trump — and always in a negative light! Can’t the Left give him an ounce of credit? And what about all the other significant stories the media is just ignoring? • My tax dollars would be spent to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars to better understand why lesbians are obese. • Seven out of nine Supreme Court Justices would all agree on a religious liberty case — Colorado baker Jack Phillips. There is hope for our Republic! • Public libraries in my neck of the woods — the Twin Cities — would have “drag story hours” with cross-dressers — for little children. Talk about the return of the Days of Noah. • The Department of Homeland Security would announce that it intends to compile a comprehensive list of hundreds of thousands of journalists, editors, bloggers, and folks like me. They will collect any “information that could be relevant about them.” • The residents of Gaza would take Japan’s gift of kites for the children of Gaza and use them as incendiary devices to burn down southern Israel. (And Israel is to make peace with such barbarians?) • Wiccans and pagans had a scheduled gathering in Maryland. God had other ideas. He caused a flood to cancel the event. • Christianity would literally be expelled from public schools but Islam would be taught and praised. • The Left has gone apoplectic about the separation of kids from parents at the border but defends and even celebrates the permanent separation: Abortion. • Private conversation would be at risk thanks to Alexa, Google Plus, our iPhones, and more, literally spying on us. Today’s world has no secrets. I have left so much off of this “I never thought I’d see the day” list that it grieves me. You have a saturation point. I don’t want to push you that far. But I suspect eve George Orwell would be shocked at the tide of our times! The Bible says there would be a day when good would be called evil and evil good (Isaiah 5:20). We are there. These happenings remind us that we’re not in Kansas anymore and things are all falling into place! God is using the negative as a megaphone to say that “I am coming soon!” Look up. Our redemption draws nigh. https://www.raptureforums.com/end-times/i-never-thought-i-would-see-the-day-part-2/
  11. shiloh357

    Immigrating to The Philippines

    Neither are so-called "missionaries" who claim that Islamic terrorism against innocent Israelis is reasonable and understandable.
  12. shiloh357

    Immigrating to The Philippines

    Wrong. They have to separate them from the adults because they don't know which ones are the parents and which ones are the traffickers. The last thing you want to do is put the children in the detention center with traffickers who the ones abusing them. I realize that for you 1% of children being abused is an acceptable price to pay, but I don't share that view. This administration is not taking children from their parents and shipping them across the country. That was the Obama administration that did that, when no one cared about the children. Apparently 1% of them are expendable, ultimately. Gun ownership and gun violence is not analogous to this situation. Gun ownership is a constitutional right. Immigrating to the US is not a right that we afford to foreigners. It is privilege we grant out of our good graces. No one as a right to be in the US except citizens. That also includes the illegals who come here to sponge off of the American people. Since they don't know how many illegals are in the US, they can't actually give percentages like 25%. Yes you are. And you ignore the facts that don't fit your liberal narrative. But it does and ultimately, it is a small enough number that they can be ignored. And part of that processing was separating the kids out from the traffickers posing as parents. The notion that it is child abuse is a dumb argument given that facilities that the children are housed in are better than what they had in their country of origin. They eat better, are cleaner, get fresh clothes, get medical care, but to you, that is "abuse." Totally irrational.
  13. shiloh357

    How Church History Disproves the doctrine of the Trinity

    Three persons, but one God, actually. I never said that "God" meant that. It was false analogy for something I wasn't describing. He was called "Son of the Most High" for reasons that have nothing to do with being born of Mary. The reason He is the Son of God is because, being born of a virgin, Jesus is not merely a man, but is God in teh flesh. Luke chapter 1 eludes back to Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is referred to as "The Might God." Yes it does. The deity of Jesus is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. Being equal with God is impossible if you are not divine. "I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (Joh 10:30-33) In Jesus' response, he did not correct their understanding of His words. When He said that He was one with the Father, they understood He was claiming to be God. If calling himself the Son of God was not a claim to deity, then they would not have not have accused him of blasphemy.
  14. shiloh357

    Immigrating to The Philippines

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/hhs-handed-child-migrants-to-human-traffickers.html The United States government placed an unknown number of Central American migrant children into the custody of human traffickers after neglecting to run the most basic checks on these so-called “caregivers,” according to a Senate report released on Thursday. In the fall of 2013, tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors traveled to the U.S. southern border, in flight from poverty and gang violence in Central America. At least six of those children were eventually resettled on an egg farm in Marion, Ohio, where their sponsors forced them to work 12 hours a day under threats of death. Local law enforcement uncovered the operation last year, prompting the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to open an inquiry into the federal government’s handling of migrants. “It is intolerable that human trafficking — modern-day slavery — could occur in our own backyard,” Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio and the chairman of the subcommittee, told the New York Times. “But what makes the Marion cases even more alarming is that a U.S. government agency was responsible for delivering some of the victims into the hands of their abusers.” As detention centers became incapable of housing the massive influx of migrants, the Department of Health and Human Services started placing children into the care of sponsors who would oversee the minors until their bids for refugee status could be reviewed. But in many cases, officials failed to confirm whether the adults volunteering for this task were actually relatives or good Samaritans — and not unscrupulous egg farmers or child molesters. The department performed check-in visits at caretakers’ homes in only 5 percent of cases between 2013 and 2015, according to the report The Senate’s investigation built on an Associated Press report that found more than two dozen unaccompanied children were placed in homes where they were sexually abused, starved, or forced into slave labor. HHS claimed that it lacked the funds and authorities that a more rigorous screening process would have required. However, the investigation also found that HHS did not spend all of the money allocated to it for handling the crisis. The agency placed 90,000 migrant children into sponsor care between 2013 and 2015. Exactly how many of those fell prey to traffickers is unknown, because the agency does not keep track.