Shelak

since she has gotten her own show, The View, she has become a political mouthpiece and poor Barbara has to keep her mouth shut or she will be the one out of a job. She [Rosie] scares me. I heard about what she did with her "wife" and their new baby. Appalling! In His Mighty Grip, Bib P.S. If you're reading this Rosie. . . I think you have changed, and not for the better, dear.

Cindi Berger, a rep for both Walters and O'Donnell said, "Whatever happened in the hair and makeup room was hardly a squabble. It's business as usual, everyone has moved on."

The word according to keifer ...

MARK, AMEN AND AMEN! Shelak

Hi Mark~~This fellow was a preacher from The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) They do believe that salvation is completed when one gets baptized by emersion. I was brought up in this church doctrine. Hopefully someone got more out of this than what bothered you , well .. thanks for acknowledging my post anyway. Shelak, no longer involved with this doctrine

Dear Fellow Debators~~~ Below you will find a brief biography of a victorian era preacher and his sermon on "What Must I Do To Be Saved?" I was recearching this subject online and found this wonderful piece ... what do you all think? Keep in mind that this piece is from the 1800's, not our own era. Shelak OTIS ASA BURGESS. OTIS ASA BURGESS was born August 26, 1829, in the town of Thompson, Windham County, Connecticut. Thomas Burgess, one of his paternal ancestors, joined the Pilgrim Colony in 1637. His maternal ancestors were of the same stock. He remained in Connecticut till eight years of age, when he removed to Norwich, Chenango County, New York. The next nine years of his life were spent in attending school four months in the year, and working the remaining eight months "amid the rocks and stumps of a sterile farm." During this time, and when about fourteen, his mother died. This event made a strong impression on his mind. His religious training had been after the straightest sect of Calvinism, but his mother's death melted him down so that he laid aside the "doctrine of the decrees," and began to earnestly "seek after God." Accordingly he went through the entire programme of the popular method of "getting religion" at the "mourners' bench," but did not succeed. Others professed to have "got" it at the same meeting, but all his prayers and tears were unavailing. He finally concluded that he was either predestined to be damned, or given over to a hardness of heart. In this terrible state of mind, he was led to almost hate God, and utterly reject all revealed religion.

Hello all in this discussion, This is so timely for me, my mother and I are having this discussion right now. She has been a member of the Chrsitian Church for all her life, I was raised in it too, then in 1974 I recieved Jesus as my personal Savior. This "getting saved" took me out of the doctrines of the Christian Church and into the once saved always saved doctrine. Course, I didnt know it then. So like another person in this discussion I was being "tossed to and fro from doctrine to doctrine", and was really uncertain what I believed. After a few years of fervent study of the scriptures I decided to let the Lord be the one who holds my salvation in His Mighty Hand. I use the verse of 2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So to settle this in my own mind I do not dwell on my ability to keep my salvation, but rather His, the Lord Jesus' ability to keep my salvation (wow, what security) in Him by His awesome power. Secure at last ... Shelak

I' sorry to say, Shelak, that once you ask a question on a forum it's out of your hands. The best you can do, once your question is answered, is to move on. Since this is a Christian forum, you call expect that many of your posts will end up in a theological discussion, and some of them way even wind up a bit heated. You should in no way feel responisble when people get carried away on a thread you started. As for your questions, feel free to ask them, but you can, in no way, expect every answer to be short and sweet, especially here. There are many very learned people here and they, like I, enjoy sharpening themselves against others. Try not to take it personal if a discussion you started continues without you. I am very glad your question was answered and hope you will feel comfortable enough to ask more of them. Oh my I didnt mean that others couldnt discuss this subject, but I hope no one thinks that I posted this question to grind some kind of axe against any moderator, that was not the purpose of my post ... Im loving the information in these posts, but when someone suggests that I have a problem with a moderator then I respond to that. Im still interested in it, just dont want others to think Im bucking the worthy system! Ok? Shelak

Then I would say that the moderator was mistaken. Presenting verses to show why you have a question or concern is perfectly valid for any Christian. Cephas, Shelak really needs to take this discussion between himself and the chat moderator in question. From Shelak ... I have gotten the answer to my question above and beyond what I needed. I sim ply asked a question, I have no problems with any moderator, or chatter, or anyone who posts on these boards. I think Ill not ask questions anymore! I simply wanted to know who it was the God changed his name to Israel, and that is all I wanted to know, please save the theology for someone who wants to study this subject in depth, which is not me. Thank everyone who posted. Subject closed as far as I am concerned. Lets just drop it! Shelak

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Hello, The scripture I pasted above is the answer to my question ... It was Jacob whom the Lord changed his name to Israel... Jacob or (Israel) was the father of Judah and the others. Thank you all for your input. Shelak

The rapture will take the true church out of this world ... there will be believers here on earth after that, the ones who knew of Jesus but didnt accept and know HIM, they will not be raptured, and will then have to go thru the tribulation, anong with the unbelievers. Gods Church will not suffer His wrath, it is for the unbelieving world. Anyone left behind after the rapture will have to either take the mark or not take the mark. So I have been taught and learned from scripture. Rev. 3:10, 2 Thes. 2, Rev. 6:17, cf. 1 Thes. 1:10 and 5:9 ... although I am no expert, but a seeker of truth, like you. I also believe that the great deception mentioned in verse 11 & 12 of 2 Thes. is a deception about where all the people have gone who were taken up in the rapture ... it is a theory of mine that the deception could be "they have been taken in space ships"?? Purely a guess. I hope these verses helped you! Shelak

Ok ... Im still learning on this subject! Thanks to all who have replied! Shelak

Dear Elkie, Thanks my friend! That means a lot to me Hope to see you soon in chat! Maybe I'll have another question to ask! Haha. Shelak

In a discussion today in chat I asked a question ... it went something like this. In the bible God changed a mans name to Israel who was this man? Someone mentioned Issac, I thought it was Jacob, but I didnt have the scripture to prove that. So I didnt say I thought it was Jacob. I have found the scripture and read it and studied that section of scripture and it doesnt say the Jacob was the first Jew, or the first Israelite. It does say that God changed his name to Israel. (Edited by Moderator) Here is the verse from Gen. 32, verses 24-32. I will only put the reference verse in here so I dont have to type it all out ... V:28 "And He said, Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled (wrestled) with God and with men and have prevailed." I wanted to put this in the discussion today in the worthychat room, but the moderator told me not to since I was not a "teacher, and I would mislead people" with my semetics (not sure of the spelling of that) (edited by moderator) Oh well, I feel liked I learned something good today, and hey found out I wasnt off base when I thought it was Jacob. I would have said Jacob, but wasnt sure, now I am sure, since I had to actually look for it in the Bible. So was Jacob the first Israelite, the first Jew? Just asking!?? Shelak

Hi, Maybe you should just find a really good Christian Councelor and have them give this person a call, set up some counciling sessions, and operate in the gifts the Lord has given you ... Now I dont know you, but from the sound of it maybe giving council isnt your gift?? Just a thought. I too look at the way our society is changing and am amazed at how l ife in the USA has changed since I was a kid in the late 50's-60's. But God is still God, He is in contorl of everything, all these things must happen. Keep you hand on the rudder and stay the course. Even so Lord come quickly! Shelak