David from New Bern

A crisis of belief is a normal experience of all of us. Look what John the Boptist said after dedicating his entire life to preaching the arrival of Jesus. He identified Jesus as the Messiah, witnessed the miraculous baptism, preached himself to verge of martyrdom and he said this... and said to Him,

By its truest definition, if you belong to any group religiously you are in a cult. A cult is a group with a common passion.

My comments were based on mass healings as described in the article. I also have a problem with the peddlers of miracles who announce services where they promise that people will be healed in great numbers and prophetic messages will be given. That sure sounds like they plan to operate even if the Lord doesn't.

I would rather walk away with almost a memorized recall of the message of a few verses that will continue flowing through my mind during the day, than just having had 30 minutes of read time to reach a goal by a calendar deadline.

We are suppose to soak in the Word and not merely read it. The longer we soak the greater the real impact

A few years ago one of the speakers during the Saturday morning session of a Promise Keepers Rally encouraged us to read the Bible for endurance and not speed. The speakers idenity I do not remember, he was not a high profile speaker. He spoke with a soft tone and if I remember he was not a pastor like most of the other speakers. He said too many of us see the goal is to read this book entirely and be really familiar with its content. He reminded us you can buy commentaries and overviews that can do that for you. He then took a very large glass of room temperature water and pulled out a Lipton tea bag. He said so many people read the Bible like this, and he read 10 verses at a little faster than normal reading pace and took the bag out the water color had changed little. Then he said but this is the way God intended, He palced the bag back in the water and we headed off in a full length exposition and meditation on 2 verses held in context and applied to our lives. After 30 minutes of fully invlved concentration of just a 2 phrases in the book of Psalms we looked at the glass it had turned into tea. We then prayed through the impact of our study with confession and declaration, he reached in his other pocket pulled out a spoon from his other pocket and stirred the glass and drank it. Great illustration, afterall meditation, recall, and understanding are the goal. The gospel and wisdom for living found in every book of the Bible. In seminary I was forced to read the Bible through in one semester in addition to probably 2,000 pages of additional text for classes. That was a chore and getting through it so I could say wth a clear conscience I did it was the only way I accomplished it, However, recently in an accountability group of sorts with 12 pastors I impulsively asked the group how many have ever read the book we preach from cover to cover... only half raised their hands. I challenged them to correct this.

hr.jr...When it comes to honest academic Bible study your first question is the wrong question to be asking. The true question is just the opposite, "What do you base your assertion that signs and wonders do exist today?" We don't go to the Bible and say if it is silent and nothing says it is wrong or in error then it is legitimate and OK. I tried that argument with my parents as teenager, "you didn't say I couldn't go to the beach!" and their response...."We didn't say you could either!" Maybe over simplified here, but remain silent where the Scripture is silent. There is no command to our generation past the Apostolic age for mass healings and and few instances of mass healings in the Scripture (key word being mass). Your second question, I will just ask you to struggle with the interpretation of this verse...

Sorry we were all at the park with our grandchildren...What are you doing telling people I am a granddad again for...people are going to think I am old or something...

Leave it to the newbie to stir things up a little bit on WorthyBoards...5 posts and you are already know the drill... Know I'm joking...welcome... I believe you are right on your personal beliefs, but with reservation. I don't know of anything that says these events will not occur again, because I do believe they will, if not only during the tribulation. I do agree that as the Apostolic age past the need for these mass miracles ceased or at least became less prominent. But, I don't think this world has seen the last of the miraculous on this scale. As far as your excerpt, my caution flags raise up as Scripture says they should. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 NKJV

Hang in there Bob, the "knock on wood" question is next...

Many people when under conviction to read their Bible more frequently submit to a read the Bible in a year plan. How productive is this read through to their spiritual life? Would it be better to pick several books of the Bible for deep study over the year?

When someone you don't even know sneezes, We generally say, "God bless you!" Why? Are blessings they loosely given? Is it superstition? Do demons cause sneezes in someone's simple mind?

You forgot the sound of butterscotch wrappers that people are not content with until they make the smallest ball possible. It is always during the quietiest moment in the church service

Most of the Oriental restaurants I have gone in have an astrology chart as a placemat for conversation. But, it is OK as long as you say a Christian Prayer over the Budhist food.... (just kidding)

If I may opine for a moment...the parables of Matthew 13, Jesus description of the Kingdom of Heaven...wheat and tares, the mustard seed, and the dragnet explain the issue of this discussion...In fact in the text Jesus explains His own parable...The church has imposters in its midst sown there by Satan. But we leave the sorting to the angels...Sorry Leonard if my analogy wasn't direct enough...Too many look at the wheat field and assume if it looks like wheat it is....and too many people are pole fishing instead of operating a dragnet and allowing the angels to sort through the catch...they rather complain about the trash fish in the nets....Thank you for entertaining my pontification upon the deep ponderables of ecclesiology...

Be proud brother that you can't even spell it!

Innately you know there is a God, through a prideful blindness you have created an argument that neither I nor anyone on this forum will penetrate. The only hope is that God will choose to open your eyes to the truth. Objective factrs will never bring you to faith but a subjective encounter with God through His Spirit dwelling among men. If you would like to read a book about someone who has been where you are at, Josh McDowell was an intellectual doubter but God opened his eyes. His book is entitled More than a Carpenter. He really identifies with philosophy majors and intellectual. There is hope for you, but you will not find it in, "Hey Christians, prove He exists!" That is revealed to only those He chooses to give the gift of faith. My prayer is that something supernaturally happens to help you go where no man can catapult himself by intellectualism.

Know the difference between the church visible and the church invisible. Example: On any given Sunday morning as you look out on the congregation, you are looking at the church visible. This is who shows up and seemingly identifies with the cause of Christ. But a fraction of those present are actually the church or the church invisble. What that fraction is at anyone gathering is a variable but an objective fact. My friend your comments are based on the church visible, and that is only going to get worse. Imagine that, but the genuine article will actually be sharpened and will benefit from the contrast coming to light. Never be ashamed of being identified with the minority. But don't be fooled by the loose general term the church gathered.

I was a Sunday School teacher in a small church. I witnessed to one of my employees and he eventually accepted the Lord and began cming to church with me and was in my Sunday School class. His job performance lacked a lot because of his skill level. So, as his supervisor I fired him after a series of counseling sessions and reviews. This did not go over well with this small church, and the pastor actually played an intimidation game with me in his office. I loved this man and still love him today, but I left the church within a few weeks. It was the source of grief for awhile. But, God had a plan the next church that I went to Identified the call to preach on my life and ordained me. The previous pastor and many people from the previous church and even the guy I fired attended my ordination service five years after the fact. I reminded of Paul and Barnabas, realized the need to separate, and God got the glory with two ministry teams instead of one. The Paul of later years embraces young Mark later on and counted him among his most valuable companions.

This thread reads like a preacher who lost his notes...questions are popping up...more questions than answers. The term nominal Christianity is about like "a little bit pregnant" I have used the term myself, so I'm not the executioner on this, just honestly dealing with the OP. Jesus used the term "sheep" to describe the children of God, and used the term "goats" to describe the unregenerate. Sheep might behave badly like goats, but a sheep's species is determined by birth not behavior. Simply put there are no nominal sheep. You are a sheep or a goat, or a sheep behaving like a goat, but a sheep none the less. "You are a saint or you aint"

If you read the beatitudes from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount I think you will discover exactly meant in His own words...

Comtemporary Christianity often gets too comfortable with God. Like a lot of religious practice it can be empty and simply tradition and fail to aid our worship. But if having an ultimate respect for the name of God and it spelling reminds you of the holiness of God and His Sovereignty. Please do it, it is beautiful. The ancient Hebrews as someone has said would not use the name Yahweh or many of the given names of God. On the rare occassions it was used, every covenant Jew would say, "blessed be the Name of the Lord". We have lost that, I believe as we say, we threw the baby out with the wash water. We now without thought speak of holy things with ease and without respect. While this may be an extreme legalistic approach our current culture may have over corrected, and lost an important element of worship...reverence.

Wow, where is Solomon when you need him...There are a lot of unknown factors inthis situation, the spiritual testimony of those involved, the level of intimacy among the legitimate spouses, the friendship level of the offending parties. Certainly, there is not a step 1,2,3 in this tedious crisis. My understanding of this situation the couple was found in the act of sexual intercourse in a remote wooded area. So, we are not talking about suspicion but certain observation. The witness was caught off guard, which I think we can all understand. They begged that he keep quiet. Which means they have involved him in a cover up. Which tells me he has no choice but to reveal or inherit part of the guilt. Hindsight would have told the offending parties, I will give you a chance to talk to your spouses, but if you don't I will. You might say, people get killed for such things. Well, people get killed without spilling the beans too. Truth will always cost you something. Now, how you reveal this to the spouses who have been cheated on will take a lot of spiritual preparation and will be based on how well you know someone and how forgiving you think the person is. But, I can't imagine not telling someone something that could escalate to more dangerous levels the longer it goes undiscovered and the the longer it continues the less chance of reconciliation.

The day of the week is not the issue, but a submission to a collective vision. The mass majority of "worship attenders" are attending a service, but are not a part of the body (in submission). If that home fellowship provides discipleship, responsibility, and a vision to contribute to the advancement of the Kingdom of God...it is a church. Take the sentence you just wrote and remove the word "Sunday", and remove the word "home". The day of the week Sunday is a good choice for maxium reach in our culture but not a requirement for Biblical Christianity. Meeting in the homes is a precedent since the beginning for there is nothing in a building itself. But, remove those two words and the sentence reads, "Why is service so important, if it is just as effective or ineffective as home fellowship? The answer, body life requires service and fellowship and neither are optional.

This is all productive, but my intention was to focus on someone who actually sat down with you and mentored you or took you along and got involved with ministry with you. Someone who didn't just show the public face of Christianity but the struggle and the work of service. A few years ago I took some church leaders to a conference and this question was asked, those gathered struggled with it. The conference was on the necessity of mentoring for real spiritual growth. Religious education can be gained through a book or a classroom setting but discipleship is much more than this.