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One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues. I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point. This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind? If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

Well, if you consider that possibility as truth than there is nothing to debate or really even to discuss on the age of the Earth or universe. Anything we observe or notice can be blown off as 'Yeah, so? God can do anything, it doesn't matter what the evidence says, God just did it that way'. Take the story of Noah for example. Not to be mean, but there's really no good evidence from the natural world that such a story ever took place. For example, how did all the indigenous plants and animals get to where they are today from the Ark; how did the Kangaroos (for example) cross the Ocean to Australia? That is a real problem with the validity of the story. But once you propose that God can do anything and just did it the way he did, you are explaining everything by explaining nothing. Another example, perhaps better, is the starlight you talked about. As light travels across space, it elongates and becomes redshifted, which scientists can then measure. Scientists have observed a very specific pattern in the distance to the star/galaxy and the amount that it is redshifted. For all the evidence in the world, it really does look like the light from other stars and even galaxies took thousand, millions and even billions of years to get here and the light did pass through all that space (especially once you get into emission and absorption spectrums). But, since God can do anything He just decided to put that all "in place" despite that none of it actually happened; God just did it that way. It is certainly possible that God just did it that way. However I see that position as one with a deceptive God, and I do not believe in a deceptive God. So I don't think that it is a very good avenue of discussion in the debate over the age question or other rather large miracles like the flood. It is a position that essentially says that evidence doesn't matter, as God can do anything and make it look like anything despite doing something completely different. So I would be careful in how you use this position. D-9 D-9 Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are trying to say with regards to the evidence of what is observed. If you have ever heard of Dr. Hugh Ross of Reasons to Believe, he says that if the evidence doesn't fit your model, change your model. While I find his work interesting and valuable to the advancement of apologetics, I'm not necessarily challenged by the current evidence versus the biblical account. I allow room for the idea that we have yet to discover all there is to discover about our universe, life, and what is contained in the Word of God. But that's me. What does challenge me is that the universe as we see it was created by the spoken Word of God. It's hard for me to wrap my human mind around this idea. Yet when I see the complexity of life and the design of the universe appear to be arranged to support that life on this planet, it seems to be the most logical conclusion. At least more logical than random chance bringing all the factors together. So Christians believe they hold the answer as revealed by God through His word and His son Jesus. Which leads me to examine the biblical account of His life and the claims He makes. If He is who He said He is, it validates the rest of the account and the message He advocated. So what validates Jesus is who He said He is? The answer appears to be in accounts of Jesus fulfilling prophecy foretold of Him thousands of years beforehand, the wisdom of His message, the signs and wonders He performed, and the fulfillment of prophecies given by Him prior to His death and resurrection. In addition, the testimony of His followers of the work Christ has done in their life. I don't doubt that we as humans can mis-interpret what was written, Jesus corrected many of the people in that time whose job it was to know the scriptures inside and out. Thus the wiggle room I leave for what we see in universe and the biblical account.

I've often read many threads debating old earth vs. new earth. There have plenty of questions regarding the plausibility of the biblical accounts of things like 6 day creation, Noah's flood, and Joshua's long day. What I don't see is anyone stopping to consider the very fact that God simply spoke and created the universe and life. Whether your OEC, YEC, agnostic or atheist, it amazes me that we can engage in debates over many of the supernatural accounts of the bible and not realize we are speaking of a God who simply spoke everything into existence. I believe you have to stop and realize any God who can speak something into existence is capable of ANYTHING in any time frame. Whether that be flooding the earth and keeping a boat full of people and animals alive, to slowing time, or creating the universe in 6 days with the light from the stars already in place. Whether or not you wonder if those events are ever plausible, keep in mind that with a word a creator that powerful can do anything He wants. I realize that doesn't sell the skeptic on faith, but I also think it's silly to argue these items. This leaves us with two main topics to debate and/or explore: (1) Did the universe create itself or is there evidence of design? (2) Is Jesus who he said he was and if so, should we not consider following the faith He advocated? I also realize that those two topics will probably not get settled here and that some are only here because they just love to argue but is there not any validity to my position?

Good point Joe. I suppose I was looking for a place where people could talk about the mission projects they may be involved with, trade ideas, pray for and encourage one another, tell stories of past mission trips, and generally give attention to this important part of the Christian life.

At the risk of being criticized....Dude...you lost me.

First, I love Messianic Jewish Believers. When I hear them speak and teach, there is a certain authenticity in their words that I can't explain. They bring me comfort to know that G-ds chosen people have opened themselves up to the truth that is their true Messiah. It's as though if they can believe, it authenticates my belief all the more. Secondly, I have always stood by the idea that Israel is a sovereign nation that has every right to exist. Even beyond my own country. They are responsible for ushering in the promised Messiah and nothing can be more valuable than that. Third, I'd love to hear from other Jewish believers here on Worthy. Mostly because I love to hear you speak of your love for the Lord, but also, I believe that I am not the only one who is inspired by you. Fourth, I also believe you make some extremely valid points. As a matter of fact, it's the first time I've ever felt challenged by Israel to do something beyond what I have done up to this point. Which, honestly, consists of some occasional prayers. Thank you for your post Yacov.

Ex: Your boldness inspires me. Who amoung us could testify to what you just experienced? Hopefully all, but probably few. He may have felt like he "beat" you. But I'm sure he walked away with something that challenged him and may cause him to look into it further. Then who knows, you may run into to him in Heaven and he'll thank you for bringing up that one point that wouldn't let him sleep at night. Way to go bro! This will be one of those works that will not burn up in the flames. Your reward is in Heaven!

Did you here Mark's monologue today? He described the historical events leading up to the great depression. He went into greater detail than the old usual explanation. Here's the link to listen to it. http://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/th...vin11172008.mp3 It takes a couple of minutes to load. Interestingly enough there are many similarities to today's economic situation as 1929 America. Mainly with regard to how the government responded to the recession prior to the depression.

Help somebody else in need. Works everytime!

I am not a part of the administration of Worthy Boards. However, after the sermon of my pastor this Sunday, I began to wonder whether we should recommend this idea to Worthy. I see missions messages sprinkled throughout the boards, but clearly this should be at the top of all our priority lists. Please chime in and tell me what you think.

When was your grandparents time? My grandma was born in 1925 so it must have been in the 1930s.....when they were young. I remember them talking about it and it sounded like they were describing some other world. I didn't understand it until I grew up and read about it. So they don't feel that the era of the Carter administration is worse than today? Higher unemployment, higher inflation, higher interest, and gas shortages all over the country? I'd be curious to know. I was about 10-15 during those years. I remember my dad buying gas on certain days depending on whether your license plate ended with an odd or even number.

When was your grandparents time?

I think it's more about what we don't know about the new president-elect. When you add up all the associations he has with people of questionable moral character, you're left to wonder what that means in terms of how he will govern as president. Add that to his positions on most political issues and you have someone who seems to stand in stark contrast to the ideals and philosophies of most conservative Christians. Hence the onslaught of speculation and conjecture regarding what we should expect. Other than being a good husband and dad, I struggle to find anything I can pin my hopes to.

Very true and there should be no doubt that race would, by default, be presumed to be the motivation. That would make a martyr of him for sure.

Obama's Very Bad Start How a promising leader turned into the playground bully