RND

1 Corinthians 13 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

There will be no more tears, or crying..... I'm kinda leaning towards your third take. Giant wrestling match. Rebels cast out.

I believe this is the description of the very first war ever fought....the war in heaven. Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: (The war description) and the dragon (Satan) stood before the woman (The Church) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child (Jesus Christ) as soon as it was born.

RND, Undeniably, God has given different laws to different people at different times. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8), but this refers to God's character and nature, not to His laws for men. Hebrews 7:12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Are you required to be circumcised? To build an ark? To sacrifice animals? Why then are you so insistant on requiring me to observe a day? Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Galatians 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. Doesn't God have two specific sets of Laws? One stored inside the ark of the covenant the other, the book stored on the outside? Indeed, since Christ came and we are now grafted into the tree of the family of Abrham we are all priests, but is the word Sabbath or a direct command not to observe it found in Hebrews 7? I am not required to be circumcised? The ceremonial law dealing with it was nailed to the cross. I have not built an ark ever, nor am I aware that it was required in either set of the Law. I have never sacraficed an animal, the last sacrafice was made on the cross with the shedding of the blood of the Lamb of the God that takes away the sin of the World. Wordsower, if you are going to quote Colossians 2, I think it is handy to quote from verse 14 on so we can get the gist of what the chapter is really talking about. Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Be honest isn't this the book of the law, and not the tables of stone?) 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (So wasn't Paul really saying the Passover, Feast of Tabernacles, etc were a shadow of things to come?) 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (Isn't Paul really saying, that the church is not held togather with the ceremonial laws?) 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Wasn't Paul really asking, if you are now Christ's why do you make yourself subject to the commandments and doctrines of men? I agree with this. Trouble is, the Ten Commandments weren't from men, they were from God. Paul was essentially saying the same thing with respect to Galatians 4:10. Remember, the Jews that were being brought into the church were attempting to enforce these ceremonial laws on the newly convertered Gentiles. Paul and Barnabas were dispatched to 'enlighten' these misguided Jews. See Acts Chapter 15. Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. Windsower, if you were indeed an SDA you should certainly know there is a distinct difference between the Law of God and the Law of Moses and the observance of them.

I agree with worshipping everyday too. However the commandment requires rest from labor. Do you rest from labor everyday or just one? If you rest from labor at least one day, which day? Would Wednesday or Thursday be acceptable substitute from Sunday? You are missing the point. We are to keep the commandment concerning the sabbath day. In the Old Testament, God limited the sabbath to one day of rest, Saturday, the seventh day of the week. This was representative of a greater meaning. In the New Testament, we keep the sabbath every day by ceasing from our labors of sin, not physical work. To break the sabbath today would be to return to a lifestyle of sin. My position is that we do have to observe God's laws but the New Testament sabbath is not Saturday or Sunday. It is the rest we entered into when we got saved. Hebrews 4:1-11 speaks of the New Testament sabbath. It explains how that in the law, God required that the seventh day be observed as a day of rest, by limiting a certain day. Today, Jesus gives rest to those who come to him by faith and the "rest to the people of God" spoken of in verse 9 is not the observance of a particular day. I'm sorry, I disagree with you. Where in the NT does it specifically say "Thou shalt not...." about the rest of the 9 items contained in the Decologue?

RND, You do not listen, you don't want to pay attention, you are so stuck on that SDA rhetoric. WE DON"T THINK SUNDAY REPLACED THE SABBATH. PERIOD Then why do you venerate Sunday? Is there something in the Bible that specifically say too or could it be something else?

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

I agree with worshipping everyday too. However the commandment requires rest from labor. Do you rest from labor everyday or just one? If you rest from labor at least one day, which day? Would Wednesday or Thursday be acceptable substitute from Sunday?

The truth of the Sabbath day is incidental to the argument. The real argument is who do you wish to be subbordinate to. The tradition of men or the Word of God. What day the Sabbath is on is of little consequence as compared to obeying the Word of the Lord. The question no one seems willing to argue honestly is how did Sunday, and where in the Bible is the degree made, that the all the Commandments except the fourth are to be observed?

Thanks. Unless it was sarcasm. In which case, thanks anyway. It was not sarcasim. Sorry, you felt it might be. It was sincere.

Good post. I was not trying to turn this post into a debate, merely pointing out that the state described by the OP seemed like sleep to me. Recently in the news a gentleman that was in a similar condition to that of Terry Schiavo, but much longer, recently 'awoke' from his condition. I am unaware if anyone asked him where he was. My guess is he would tell everyone he didn't know.

Aren't you currently a part of a royal preisthood?

Indeed, but is the Sabbath mentioned anywhere in Romans 14? Maybe this chapter is talking about foods offered to idols and fasting days and not the Sabbath day. The 4th commandment tells us to rest and worship on the seventh day. This is clear. Funny, I read Hebrews 4 much differently. I believe it clearly states that the 7th day Sabbath is still in effect and certain newcomers did not enter in because of unbelief. Here's an example: Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. In this case rest is strong's #4520 which is derrived from #4521 The greek word is: sabbatismos And it means: 1) a keeping sabbath 2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians I agree wholeheatedly with both definitions. The Sabbath is our time to 'remember' what God has done in creation, both in this age and the one to come!

Sounds like someone in that condition might be asleep. Seems similar to the exact same experience the soul goes through when the spirit (breath/ruwach) returns to the Lord who gave it.

You got that right!