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antz

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  1. Then why Paul will include himself to that??? If you are right in saying the the verse is about those who have a spirit of antichrist, why would Paul include himself saying... Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,... Because it is used in an editorial sense. It is hard to explain to someone who does not understand how English works. The words "we" and "you" are sometimes used to make a point in a conversation and it is understood by the English reader that they are not the actual target of the speaker. Rather we understand that "you" or "we" is being used in a general sense, and not in a personal sense. "We" or "you" can mean "anyone," or "everyone." Paul is talking about those who receive the truth but do not appropriate it. They accept/acknowledge the truth, but decide against it. Like I said, there are people who know the truth, but love sin too much to change, and receive Christ. That is the kind of person being referenced in this passage. It is not talking about a saved person walking away from the faith. really????... i admit i am having a hard time expressing my thougths but with the help of the scriptures it still shows that it is you who don't understand the verses i am posting... let see if what you claim is true... let us read the context... take note, i won't interpret anything here, we just have to read... let us read... Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, To whom he is talking??? He said Brethren... What did he say to the Brethren... let us continue the verses... Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having a high priest over the house of God;22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. To whom is he talking??? to his brethren, those who have new living way, those who have full assurance of faith... those who have profession of faith... and what did he said to this people he called brethren???... let us continue reading... Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, did you read that??? who does the word we being referred to??? He is referring to the brethren including himself... I think that is prety clear... why can't you understand that???
  2. Then why Paul will include himself to that??? If you are right in saying the the verse is about those who have a spirit of antichrist, why would Paul include himself saying... Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,...
  3. that is "your interpretation..." Paul would not agree on that... as far as i know it is Paul who write that and he is including himself to that declration... look again... and read carefully... read, don't interpret... Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
  4. Then you don't really believe in the Bible. It is clearly written that Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10:26 is saying AFTER... after we have received... and take note... Paul is included there because Paul is the writer.. he said... after WE have received... Yes we have been set free because Jesus died for us on the cross. But if you come back again under the power of sin WILLFULLY after you have been saved... it is like you yourself is crucifying Jesus once again... read... Hebrews 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
  5. John would not agree on you on this... read... I John 5:17Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that do not lead to death. That is the problem if we believe in our own interpretation and not allowing the Bible to define His own words.
  6. thanks to that, and i think we agree on more things on your post. although not all, like the personal savior issue. I don't believe that Jesus is my personal savior but rather He is the savior of the Body Headed by Him where I belong. The bottom line is, I agree on your conclusion that we have been saved and restored, we are being saved, and we shall be saved (i still prefer to use the words that Paul used) IF we remained faithful to HIM. and remaining/staying faithful for me it is an act/work needed for us to be saved
  7. FAITH ALONE???? He speaks... HE SPEAK OUT THAT FAITH AND THAT MADE HIM SAVED!!! That is the ACT/WORK that he had made together with faith and made him saved...
  8. I'm not sure what you mean in reply to Floatingaxe. If you are complementing his quote or speaking against it. But the fact is, scripturally you can never separate faith and works. I took this whole evening to read this post and everything between page 2 and 15, so far got bogged down in the arguement over faith/works. Even the quote of Floatingaxe relative to the thief was not faith alone. If I can use a story to illustrate. If as an individual you read about the large air balloons that fire fighters use on occasions on to which people jump and see that they are indeed saved. You can on the basis of that information believe that it is a reliable tool, it can and does save. But, unfortunately, you live on the 20th floor and a fire is raging outside of your door, soon to be upon you. The fire fighters are inflating the balloon. It has been completed and they tell you to jump. This is where faith meets the test. If you really have faith, then you will jump without question. But if it you do not, you will not jump. What you are saying in separating faith and works, is that this person will still be saved, even though they will not jump. Faith alone saves. On the other hand, James tells us that no faith, or dead faith is worthless. It will not save you. One must act out that faith. Works is evidence of that faith. We are saved through faith, which means works. I Pet 1:5 is the best text along with many others. Every example of faith in the Bible is backed by works. Starting with the Father of faith, Abraham. He acted upon His faith. Rahab did the same, and on and on. If they had not acted, their faith would be non-existant, dead, worthless. Nice try, but this is wrong where salvation is concerned. The above completely misrepresents the nature and plan of salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith. Everyone including you, seems to focus on the "faith" part, while ignoring the grace aspect. Faith and words are separated from the attainment of salvation because we are saved by grace through faith. Grace highlightss the truth that salvation is a gift. Romans 6:23 tells us that unlike sin which has wages (earned payment) eternal life through Jesus is a free gift. There are no earned gifts. Gifts are always free. James is speaking of works done as fruit of a true profession of faith, the result of salvation not the attainment of it. Our works demonstrate the authenticity of our justification which we have already received. I don't think it can be made much simpler. Our works justify us and our profession in the sight of men. We are NOT saved by a synthesis of faith and works. Paul makes this clear Rom 3:20-22, Rom 3:26, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Rom 8:3; Joh 3:14-18, John 5:24, John 6:40; Acts 13:38, Acts 13:39; 1Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:8, Gal. 3:11-14, Gal. 3:24; Eph. 2:8,9; Phil. 3:9; Titus 3:7. Our works are never good enough to save us because tainted with sin. The only works that save us are the works of Christ upon the cross. ULTIMATELY STILL, YOU NEED TO INCORPORATE YOUR FAITH WITH WORKS... FAITH ALONE WOULD NOT SAVE YOU... Why... although almost everything has been said by Kansas, to those who still don't understand read this... it is a Biblical truth that GOD WANTS EVERYBODY TO BE SAVE and i hope no one would contest that... I Timothy 2:3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth. Then why He can't just give that grace to everybody without choice so everybody will be saved since God wants everybody to be saved??? Because you need to ACCEPT THE GRACE. From the very moment you ACCEPTED Jesus, that ACCEPTANCE is a work together with faith that will make you saved... even if you have faith but if you did not accept Jesus you will not be saved. FAITH WITHOUT WORK IS DEAD!!! Eventhough gifts are free, you need to accept it otherwise it would not be yours...
  9. Hi, you havn't answer my question in post# 105
  10. Wow, what a coincidence, another newbie supporting Antz/Truthcaster! WOW... another accusation... are you still not convinced that i am not truthcaster???
  11. Kansas, You post it well... I hope we meet at the end of the road Godbless! Antz
  12. If you are trying to work for your salvation, you are NOT a Christian. Hey.. why you are still at me in this post.. it is ronald who said your statement is ridiculous... why not comment on that... and about your comment just now... read my post...
  13. You are not answering the question. I already know that Christian may have ups and down, that God is so good forgiving us from our sins, that Jesus give its life for us, that we are once rebelious, and that... sorry but i am really not comfortable using my own words so lets just read it... I Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. You read that??? some of the members of the Church of God were once that bad...NOW... my question is... AFTER YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, you decided to TOTALLY STOP obeying God, what will happen??? According to the Bible they can not be renew again unto repentance... read... Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. That is according to the Bible, I don't know how is it according to you but feel free to answer the question. and which verse did I interpret??? and i don't have my own teaching, i am quoting the Bible... It would be better if you can collect all the verses i interpret and let us discuss it in another topic. That is your own. For me THE BIBLE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT from any other books. The Bible is complete and no need to be interpreted. The Bible has His own interpretation of His word that no one should add nor diminished. YOU JUST READ. ASK AND THE BIBLE WILL ANSWER. I read your post but unfortunately you are not answering the question... so I will ask again... and my question will stand firm... AFTER YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, you decided to TOTALLY STOP obeying God, what will happen??? just to fit the same question in different arguments that you just posted i will rephase... AFTER YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, you decided to TOTALLY STOP gloriying God, STOP fighting the good fight of faith, STOP striving to live a good profession, what will happen??? are you still saved? and why there's a need for a saved man to glorify God, to fight the good fight of faith, to strive to live a good profession, you are saved after all... then what it is for??? for your Love to God??? why do you need to love God, you are saved after all??? and after all of any posible reason that you may have why we need to follow the commandments, what happen if we decided to STOP??? are we still saved??? I know... Paul's letters are addressed to the members of the Church of God who already received the gift of justification and were already SAVED form sins. See question above... same question as above just needs to rephrase to fit your comment... AFTER YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, you decided to TOTALLY STOP living the salvation you already possesed, what will happen??? are you still saved? =======QUOTE DOESNT WORK FROM THIS POINT, I USE INDENTION INSTEAD====== QUOTE He only rewards obedience that comes from faith. Yes, but He only consider faith with works... read... Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You are ignoring context, though. Really??? am I out of context here??? let us read the context... Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?17 Even so faith, IF it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. You read that... Paul's letter to James, he explains what kind of faith does a Christian should have... and as he said... CAN FAITH SAVE HIM???... (you can read it from above) James is writing to Christians, and he is admonishing them to live their faith, and demonstrate their faith by their works. He is not telling them that they need works to be saved. That is nowhere found in his letter. His point is that faith is dead without works in the sense that any profession of faith must be accompanied by corresponding action in order to the world to see that our profession is genuine. The works are not for our benefit, but for the Glory of God. James is teaching what Jesus taught. Jesus said that our works should be light that is seen of men that they may glorify our Father in Heaven. Although from this post it seems that you already agree that faith is not enough to save us from hell by saying that FAITH MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY CORRESPONDING ACTION... let me still ask the same question again in based on your arguments here you just posted... AFTER YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, you decided to TOTALLY STOP accompanying your faith with action/works what will happen??? are you still saved? God's law in the OT clearly teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, and this is confirmed by the New Testament. Salvation has NEVER been by works. Yes I agree in the Bible... SALVATION FROM SINS IS NOT BY WORKS Ah yes, the old sin/hell dichotomy that you present regarding salvation. It shows that you really don't understand salvation at all. Hell is a consequence of sin, not "sins." Yeah, it is Biblical, Hell/Death is wages of sin... as it is written... Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. And that is precisely the reason why you should not fell away after you have been cleased, justified, saved... because according to the Bible... Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. You go to hell because of what you are, not because of what you do. Hell is the default consequence of not being born again. Cant find these phrases from the verses you have given below... perhaps this is another interpretation of yours... If you lived a moral life, and never sinned once, you would still go to hell as a sinner, since your heart would still be enmity with God. What a cruel judgement... tsk.. tsk.. tsk... people who lived a good life outside the Christian life hs been judged by shiloh357... tsk... tsk... tsk... By the way, that is the sign that you are not one of those being written by Paul because if you are, you should have known that Paul written something like this... I Corinthians 5:12After all, is it my business to judge outsiders? You are to judge those who are inside, aren't you? 13God will judge outsiders. "Put that wicked man away from you. " You read that???.... are you God??? why do you judge those outsiders??? or maybe it is the otherway around... You are one of the outsider that is why you don't know what you are doing and you don't know that Paul have written something like that??? It is only by being born again that a person can be saved from hell, and that is done by grace through faith alone. (Rom 3:20-22, Rom 3:26, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Rom 8:3; Joh 3:14-18, John 5:24, John 6:40; Acts 13:38, Acts 13:39; 1Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:8, Gal. 3:11-14, Gal. 3:24; Eph. 2:8,9; Phil. 3:9; Titus 3:7) Once saved from sin you no longer face its consequence, which is hell. When you are born again, you are placed in Christ, and Christ is in you. You are a new Creation in Him and are no longer under the law, but under grace. No one IN Christ is going to hell. It is impossible. oooppsss... you missed Rom 5:9 which is a determining factors of the verses you have given... actually it starts in Rom 5:8-10... let us read... Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. You read that??? When did Jesus died for the Christians Paul is speaking to in this verse??? while we were yet sinners... take note there is no interpretation here... i just ask and let the Bible answers... and the Bible said.... while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. What did jesus death did to the Christians???.. the Bible said... being now justified by his blood,we shall be saved from wrath through him. you see that??? SHALL BE SAVED!!!! not SAVED!!! it is clearly written.. no interpretations... but purely scriptural... SHALL BE SAVED... from where??? according to the Bible FROM WRATH...which is tantamount to hell... A real Christian can understand these things, but you cannot. You need Jesus, and you need to give up these false perverted teachings that you are spreading on this boards. You need to make Jesus the Lord of your life and stop trying to earn a salvation you cannot earn. As long as you continue down this path of trying to earn your salvation, you will end up dying without Jesus and spend eternity in Hell. It is that simple. I understand the verses that you have given, read above my post... I have Jesus and I don't have my teaching because all has been written.. all we need to do is READ... NOT INTERPRET... JUST READ!!! Jesus is the Lord of my life and i am not trying to earn the salvation he had already given... what i am trying to do is to keep His commandments and not to fall away from Him for i know that if I fall way it is imposible to renew me again unto repentance (Heb 6:4-6) Your works are useless, and unfortunately serve as a means of feeding your pride. Your pride puts a wall between you and the Lord and it is costing you your soul. That is just your opinion.. i would listen to the Bible than to you... The Bible said faith without works is dead... so, i am keeping my faith alive, by doing good works... But there is spirit in me that keeps me doing good work. The love of God is to keep His commandments... and keeping His commandments till Jesus come back... according to Jesus... Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Yes, there is a A spirit guiding you; it is not the Holy Spirit, though. This verse was addressed to Jesus' immediate disciples in Matthew ten. It is not addressed to all believers. Try reading up around verse 5. This pertains to a missionary journey among the cities of Israel that Jesus sent them on. He was simply warning them of what they would face, but admonished them to be faithful and they would be delivered. It is not an address to the Church at large. While there are some who see a dual reference to the Tribulation period in this passage, it is not addressing spiritual salvation, but rather preservation in the midst of, and deliverance from, persecution. If i will follow your reasoning, there will be no scriptural messages for us because all of the scriptures was addressed to those people who are now resting... Fortunately, that is not the truth because before Jesus go to heaven He said this to the diciples... Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. You know, that is the problem if you try to interpret the Bible... you will be misguided... DON'T INTERPRET... READ... This verse is for you... Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
  14. That is a ridiculous statement. When we choose to obey God, He loves it. It certainly does glorify Him! It draws Him to favour us. He will bless an obedient child over a disobedient one any day. He works within the lives of those He can trust to obey. Those He doesn't trust, He doesn't use! Lord Jesus, make us trustworthy servants for You! I think this is the first time we agree in one thing.... AMEN... I told you... if it is the TRUTH i will agree on it regardless of who say it!!! But...but....but...YOU are the one who said that! WRONG... you check the thread to find out who post that... i just quoted that one... my reply to that comment is "Your judgement is poor and I hope you'll be forgiven." as a Christian i would never say such words to people here...
  15. The trouble is... there's no verse supporting your answer... it looks to me that it is just another interpretation... and worse is... you did not answer the question so let me put it again... Do you agree that willful sins are deadly after we received the knowledge of the truth as what the Bible say??? Hebrews 10:26For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, I have answered you through scripture! It's like knocking my head against a brick wall with you! Hebrews 10:26, as I already pointed out, is referring to people who willfully turn their backs on their salvation! It is not referring to sins like jay-walking or ir spitting on the sidewalk! In the case of one abandoning their faith, then yes, that sin is deadly...they beecome reprobate. By the way...that was a quote I pasted, you know! I am not asking what kind of sin is being referred by Heb 10:26, that is again another topic we can discuss as you wish. but right now, the question is... Do you agree that willful sins are deadly after we received the knowledge of the truth as what the Bible say???
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