Atonement

What blues-rock? This is where it started Visit My Website.. Which started with people like Elvis who by the way was Christian. Thus he was called "the king of rock" In metal the guitars got louder and the distrotion got amplified.. Rock music evolved just like any form of music did, there is no difference. In rap the bass got heavier, in country the acoustics got more clear, in hip hop the beats got more technical. Funny when you do the orgins of metal music, you see that there is no clear relation to the devil..

On things such as this we should allow Scripture to speak for itself.. Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. Trust in God's Word

May I ask a question? If my Church was having a Rap concert for the youth how many kids do you think would come if they were into metal? And vise versa. If my Church was having a rock concert how many kids would come if they liked rap? I believe all things were created by God and for God. God can turn anything for His glory Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Amen, Atonement. It's about time that believers took back all the things the devil has stole!!!! The Devil stole Heavy Metal? Yes he has. God created music to make a joyful noise unto Him, gave us dance to dance before the Lord, He gave us the shout to break through our circumstances. Today too many church folk don't do this in church because they think it's not holy or proper church etiquette, but we have no problem shouting, dancing, or jumping up and down when our favorite football team wins the super bowl. How about giving our all to The King who saved us, after all thats why HE gav us these things. Be Blessed. ...And apparently there is no problem when a football player thanks Jesus for helping them with the Superbowl. Did God invent football too? If He did then it must be okay to stay at home and watch the game on a Sunday afternoon when we should be at the meeting. I don;t believe that the Devil "stole" Heavy Metal. Heavy metal came about as the result of purely worldly influences - and I would argue, demonic influences. So there's no way the church can "take back" something that was never ours to begin with. I would agree that the devil has influenced the evolution of ALL music to what it is today be it heavy metal, rock and roll, rap, R&B, country. We would just have to listen to the lyrics to know that. But God gave us the talents to create music to glorify Him withm the devil has stolen it from us by perverting it for fleshy purposes. So why would it not be possible to put Him back into it for His glory? So then, by reason, if "music" (That is, "the production of sound by means of instrumentation") today is of the devil - having been influenced by the devil to the point of complete degradation, why would we want to "bring it back" into the realm of worship? Why would we even want to attempt to change what is inherently evil in the first place? I think that if you examine the situation more carefully it really has more to do with what we want or desire, and what satisfies us more than God, than what God wants and what satisfies Him the most. Why shouldn't we bring it back into the realm of worship? Your content in allowing satan to continue his influences just because he had it longer? We may not be able to erase all his influence in things like music but why not change what we can. So what would be proper worship and praise music? And do you have special insight on what music would satisfy God the most. All I know is He told us to worship Him with all our mind, body and spirit. Amen sister

Thank you, I think it's Nelly who sings that one song.. "It's getting hot in here so take off all your clothes" Not a Christian message at all. ALL music Satan has been corrupted in some form or another.

Actually, gambling's not a sin. It would depend on whether the gambling shows signs of greed. If you are pushing the money in just to get money back, then I would say that is greed. But if you've just gone out for dinner and a few drinks with some friends, and while you're chatting you have a spare five bucks and you just whack it in the pokies for a bit of fun, I don't think that could be considered "greed", and therefore not a sin. All depends on what's in the heart, man True.. All depends on the man's heart and what his motivations are

Hey you are the one who said that it's worldy and does not mingle with God.. So I rebuttal your position What can of worms are you willing to open here? Are you new in the Lord? I'm being humble is asking you this my friend, because I would like to educate you in the Bible. Drugs ARE mentioned in the Bible, but of course you must know Greek, or Latin to understand the meaning. Let me break this down.. Pharmakeia (Google this word): the use or the administering of drugs poisoning sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry This word is found in both Gal.5:20 and Rev. 9:21, 18:23 Also if you have a Strong's Concordance, a study of the Greek words pharmakeia (Strong's 5331) pharmakeus (Strong's 5332) and (Stong's 5333). These uses of 'sorcerers' (KJV) use a different Greek word to the singular use of this word in Acts 13:6,8; so this is not just the plural of the same word. From the Greek 'pharmakeus' (Words 5332 and 5333 in Strongs). So there is a connection between all four uses of words 5331, 5332 and 5333 in Revelation. There is indeed a relationship here to the English word 'pharmacy' (which of course, is directly derived from these Greek words). You misunderstood my words.. I never said it was invented by people who use the Black Market. I said it was first used in the Black Market which is very true, you may want to further your research. Either way, remember you said that "leaven leavens the lump"? Yet you disagree with this media outsource.. Again boxing your god. You are the one willing to say that God did'nt ordain music. I proved in Scripture already that you seem to ignore over and over.. God created all things for Him and By Him. So you prove that wrong? You prove that God did not ordain metal music. It's your argument against the Word of God.. That's not my desire to prove this further, the proof is there, now you must find Scripture that say's God hasn't.. Good luck my friend. I pray you find your answer LOL.. I can not say anything to this response.. I'm sorry.. Yeah your knowledge is Far beyond mine. God Bless you God has used porn for His glory.. Have you ever heard of Christy Morgan? One of the famous pornstar turned Christian and has spread the Gospel to other porn stars who were saved. Satan has used porn (sex) for self pleasure. God uses one's testimony to draw people out of it. The same with Drugs, I was into drugs and it's my testimony that has help bring some out of their addictions. How could you be so blind to this stuff? Sorry I guess all that Bible college and my doctoral degree in theology serves no purpose. I think you need to study more on this sin. Simple answer it's apparent that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that the Holy Spirit does His miracles by the power of the devil. Which you have assumed in regards to metal music. Thus using the leaven argument.. Big no no.. Unless you are willing to clarify your position better. But this is my understanding of your position Noted: So you been doing a long time also? How does that qualify you though? I'm curious? I been using the Internet since 1992, I been on forums since 2000, and I help mod Christianforums.net but I don't see myself as one who knows more then the next person. That's just silly. I love to be educated in the Word of God, I'm open to be taught new things by people like yourself. I also understand that at times another person may have more knowledge on a certain topic.

I totally agree with you 100% But this is not what has happened here. One started to speak about leaven and stated it should not be mixed with believers, and using metal music an a prime example. That is where a line should be drawn, who could say such a thing? As I stated at the beginning of this topic.. Please leave your music taste at the door. I don't mind if they hate metal music, but one can not say that our God can not use it for His glory. This is where this topic has lead off too. My argument is God can..

1st I must tell you that I will respond with a humble heart, and my responses may not sound to humble, but I assure you that I have my heart in the best intentions when answering your sincere questions. God Bless you my friend Can you offer anything against truth? Like proving music is a sin (any music)? I brought this topic up to see how some walk with Christ. To see if the Church does indeed put God in a box, and to understand why the body of Christ would say so.. This topic suited the best on the list.. I was going to use movies at first, but I went with this instead. If you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm looking for a some sort proven answers, and the leaven argument you are using also implies to the Internet, your TV, Your movies, your music (what ever it may be). I bet you listen to country huh? That's cool if you do, but don't get me started on the artist songs on country music. Drinking, partying, smoking, fornication, cheating, all music has these. So you say nothing good can come from metal music because of "leaven"? Again I ask why are you on the Internet Ovedya? If nothing good can mix per your conditions? Did you know that the Internet was first used as a undergound black market? Can not the body of Christ worship God through any type of music and the Internet? Sure we can.. So it sounds like the God you serve then, you wrap Him up in a box and seal it with conditions. Sorry but the God I serve is one who is mighter than that. Anything foreign to God? Well then I must ask that you sale your TV, DVD player and VCR, also all your CD's, because there goes movies, country music, rap music, metal music, blues, classical, jazz etc.. But wait a sec.. How can you say that God did not ordain these type of things to bring glory to Him? You can't, so why argue a point that you can not prove? Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: So are you saying that a person who listens to rock music or who is on the Internet can not be a genuine Christian? Because this is what your are implying here.. So let's say... I took the music to Amazing Grace but I changed the lyrics to Amazing Death.. Or I change the words of "Three wooden Crosses" (Randy Travis) to three broken crosses. Are you saying it will be okay because the music is good? Hmm I don't think that flies to well.. It's all in the lyrics my friend, you are missing this point BIG time.. Again maybe you should cancel your Internet service provider.. Because if you are going to preach it.. you should live by it.. My God, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords can use ALL THINGS for His Glory.. Sad it's truly sad because of how many kids have been touched in their spirit and have come to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior at a Christian rock concert, and yet you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and His doing, saying that it's "leaven".. You say when did I blasphemy? I say re-read all what you wrote. It's truly sadens my heart to think that there are people who believe such things. Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. By the way I came to Christ at a Christian Rock concert and have been born again since 1991. I was into Satanism, drugs, fornication, and idolship. I never once looked back nor have I touched drugs, nor fornicated since I came to the Lord. So now you know why I take this subject to heart.. But to you, I must have had just an emotional experience. Because surley God could not use Metal music for His glory.. Shameful my friend.. God Bless you in your walk with the Lord.

I agree.. It is the person or person(s) behind the music.. The music should not be judged because it has a beat or a tempo to one's unliking. I think this has a lot of wisdom behind your post. How can we judge any man's heart by the music that s/he plays? I surley can't. I have been to Christian rock concerts and have seen many young people come to the Lord. So I know first hand the benefit of ALL music God can use for His glory.. Amen

That was sarcasm.. I'm sorry

Forgive me you did not use the scripture first, I did jump the gun. Yet you still attempted to bring something though sarcastically under this judgement. Then when a follow up comment was given...the scripture used is now somehow out of context. Why not just deal with the context in the initial response rather than with sarcasim. Once again forgive me for jumping the gun. You do seem as if you are too emotional about this. You did give a poll, and its just music. I'm sorry, can you hear my voice on here my friend? Ohh so your perceive me being sarcastic. That's a big difference my friend. But I will take note to sugar coat my post(s).

If that is the case why are you on the Internet? "A little leaven leavens the lump" The Internet has Porn, Gambling, Black Market etc.. Of course you can't be serious? + Yet there's no such thing as "Christian porn" or "Christian gambling" or "The Christian black market," is there? Ahh so you take Scripture out of it's original context when quoting it! Okay.. It would be best not to quote it at all if you can not quote it from it's original context. Do you know what "leaven" is?? When Paul speaks about leaven in Gal. 5:9 and 1Cor. 5:6 he is speaking of sin. The context of Paul's answer was the sin of fornication (1 Cor. 5:1) that was being sanctioned by the Corinthians a young man was living as husband-and-wife with his step-mother! That fornication is a sin is obvious from such Scriptures as Rom. 1:29, 1 Cor. 6:18, 2 Cor. 12:21, Gal. 5:9, and 1 Thess. 4:3. Under no circumstances can fornication ever merit God's approval. It is always wrong. So if you would please leave "leaven" in it's context. Because Porn, gambling and the black market are "sins" Tell us or please show us that Christian Metal is a "sin"?? Then I would be open to "leaven" having any value on this topic.. Acutally to be correct you used the scripture first. So if Ovedya is using it out of context you must judge yourself in the same light. Where did I use that Scripture first? Could you quote or elaborate on this please Also why does one have to judge? I never did.. I had stated to leave "leaven" in it's context, if you notice I quoted her using " " between the quote and knew already how the answer would be returned. Because I know that leaven is "sin" why do you think I mentioned porn, gambling and the black market?

May I ask a question? If my Church was having a Rap concert for the youth how many kids do you think would come if they were into metal? And vise versa. If my Church was having a rock concert how many kids would come if they liked rap? I believe all things were created by God and for God. God can turn anything for His glory Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Amen, Atonement. It's about time that believers took back all the things the devil has stole!!!! The Devil stole Heavy Metal? In a sense yes.. The devil stole sex, money, music (all), movies etc and has used it for his purpose to drawn people away from the Lord and to use it for self pleasure.

If that is the case why are you on the Internet? "A little leaven leavens the lump" The Internet has Porn, Gambling, Black Market etc.. Of course you can't be serious? + Yet there's no such thing as "Christian porn" or "Christian gambling" or "The Christian black market," is there? Ahh so you take Scripture out of it's original context when quoting it! Okay.. It would be best not to quote it at all if you can not quote it from it's original context. Do you know what "leaven" is?? When Paul speaks about leaven in Gal. 5:9 and 1Cor. 5:6 he is speaking of sin. The context of Paul's answer was the sin of fornication (1 Cor. 5:1) that was being sanctioned by the Corinthians a young man was living as husband-and-wife with his step-mother! That fornication is a sin is obvious from such Scriptures as Rom. 1:29, 1 Cor. 6:18, 2 Cor. 12:21, Gal. 5:9, and 1 Thess. 4:3. Under no circumstances can fornication ever merit God's approval. It is always wrong. So if you would please leave "leaven" in it's context. Because Porn, gambling and the black market are "sins" Tell us or please show us that Christian Metal is a "sin"?? Then I would be open to "leaven" having any value on this topic..

If that is the case why are you on the Internet? "A little leaven leavens the lump" The Internet has Porn, Gambling, Black Market etc.. Of course you can't be serious?

May I ask a question? If my Church was having a Rap concert for the youth how many kids do you think would come if they were into metal? And vise versa. If my Church was having a rock concert how many kids would come if they liked rap? I believe all things were created by God and for God. God can turn anything for His glory Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Thx for the response you two. I listen to hard metal, and I play guitar and love playing metal. I once upon a time listened to bands like Slayer, Destruction, Cannibal Corspe, Sepultura, Obituary etc etc etc. But with bands like Vengeance Rising who hard just as fast and hardcore as some of the best metal bands I've heard and the message is about Salvation, I also do not see a problem with this music because each person has their own taste in music. Now Chuck was a pastor at a Church in California, but has since denied Christ and turned to Satanism. The band has fought to keep the name Vengeance Rising and is in the studio right now making a new CD..

I did a search and I could not find anything on this topic. Sorry if this has been discussed before I know some like metal music and some don't so if we can all please leave our personal taste in music at the door. Please just explain if it should be in a believers life or not. With bands like Demon Hunter Vengeance Rising Believer Deliverance Seventh Angel Barren Cross Who really pack a punch in Christian metal Do you think Christian Metal should be apart of a believers life? If you could also please elaborate on why you feel it's okay or why it's not okay? Thank you

Hey if you feel put down then you need to seek prayer. I never put anyone down; If you are feeling convicted in your spirit.. Maybe you need to go to Church.. Just a thought Which church would you recommend? If I were a new believer coming to you with that question, what would you say to him? I would say find a Bible believing Church. One that believes in both the death, resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Can none of this be done outside of church? 1) To honor Him - Sure you can do this at home, but he ask that you also do it in Church (Scripture already quoted) 2) You have the opportunity to encourage and strengthen others (you tell me)? 3) Others have the opportunity to encourage and strengthen you (How if you are not there)? 4) Paul in the New Testament say's too.. "not forsaking our own assembling together" Hebrews 10:25 (Speaks for itself) 5) Singing, praying, studying, partaking of the Lord's Supper, and giving, build us up and make us stronger (sure you can, but why read the Bible at all?? I mean you want to dismiss the parts where it say's go to Church (Quoted already)).. Why should one study/read it at all? It's a valid question.. Because someone can't pick and choose the Scriptures they want to live by, in doing so you are creating a God for yourself to serve your purpose.

Hey if you feel put down then you need to seek prayer. I never put anyone down; If you are feeling convicted in your spirit.. Maybe you need to go to Church.. Just a thought

My question to this would be.. Why would one not want to go to Church (i.e a building)? Usually the reason seems to be simple, and some look at it as a copout. Here is the basic reason why people do not attend Church 1) They want to do things their way, and do not want to answer to anyone (how powerful and truthful that is) "One another" is mentioned 234 times in the Bible and 117 of those Scriptures are in regards to the four mentioned below 1) Pray for one another 2) Bless one another 3) Forgive one another 4) And love one another Of course there are many others.. (i.e. Comfort one another, edify one another, Lift up one another, be kind to one another) etc etc. How are we to do anything with "one another" if we are not there? This is why many see it as a copout.. Sure going to "Church" does not make you a Christian.. Are you a solider if you don't have a army? I suppose Are you a teacher if you don't have a class? I suppose But are you making the best of your position as a Christian? I would say no Each of us has skills, and your local Church could use yours skills. Now you may say "I don't have any skills" Sure you do, and being born again and bought by the Blood of Jesus gives you more then the qualifications to use those skills in Church. Maybe you should pray about it, and not turn your cheek away from the Lord's Church. Just a thought my friends

Perhaps it is not for any malevolent reasons. Perhaps he is simply scared of our reactions. I could be wrong, but I think he's a newbie Christian that got over zealous. If this is true, then he doesn't need a verbal beating and assumptions about his character. He needs what every new Christian needs- encouragement and correct teaching. I wish he would come back, but it is probably because he does not understand how Worthy works and thought he was no longer allowed to post, which is what he stated. Unless he shows himself to be false, I have no reason to not take him at his word. As I.. I would hope he would come back and answer the question(s) at hand, it's a valid question I have asked. Is he looking for an answer or to just post his point of view on the rapture.. Again it's very simple logic to ask such a question. If it causes discord among the family of Christ, it's not because of my question, it's because how one perceives how the question was asked, and then that causes speculation and discord..

He has received plenty of explanation also at the other sites as well.. And I also notice that he just cuts and paste this in the forums and then stops posting.. Typical in all the other sites.. Why? What would be that reason? So it is a valid question asking why he is posting this.. Even if I did agree with it.. What's behind the post? If he wants an answer, great seek that answer, but to post and run.. That's very Suspicious and worth noting for others to see his character in the manner of his postings. I don't know him, I can not say he's a brother in the Lord or not. All I know is that he post this and runs in all the other sites.. Hmmmm why?