Joshua-777

Come on, praise God!!!!

Come on!!!

I'm going to step out of this topic. I have too many other things going on right now and it's easy for me to get one track minded. For me these people are more than just a Church out there but some of my best friends and family. I have had over eight years of experience of working with them and some powerful encounters with the Lord through their ministry and can say with confidence that many things they are accused of are simply not true, or misunderstood or twisted. Davida, God bless you bro. Sorry for dropping the hate word when I don't know your heart. I have just been seeing people praise God for the fires in Redding and declaring it's God's judgement against bethel, as well as many other things that would drop in the hate category. I personally believe that on the grounds of who Jesus is, and what He did for us, we can always find unity regardless what denominational life we fall in. I also believe the Church can have a greater impact on the world when one hand is not trying to chop the other hand off. I also will say that to Charasmatics who cut people off as well, we need eachother. The Charasmatic movement is strong in faith, prayer, and worshiping the Lord, but needs people to challenge it with sound doctrine and keep it grounded in the foundation of the Word.

I think these parents had been fed a lot of fear and paranoia from heresy hunters and believed it. with what I disagree with, I don’t so much agree with sozo, (prophetic inner healing) I’ve seen too many people get weird with it. I have heard a range of eschatology out of bethel, many of them hold different beliefs from one another. A few other things im still searching to see where they stand on,

Warning is different. When you mix in name calling, mocking, and slander is where you really get in error. The devil is the accuser of brethren. When someone is a believer in Jesus and you are calling him satan, that's not wise, especially since we will be judged by the same standard we use to judge others. If he's deceived, then show what he teaches and show in scripture where he is in error. Now if you want him judged in his sin or delivered from it? You say its a different Gospel. prove it. What Jess are they preaching? quote the source, not mans opinion of whats going on.

I agree, this is a problem. We are supposed to judge prophetic words and be held accountable to what is said.

I only jumped in this topic because I'm sick of seeing it used to spread hatred and malice against other believers in Jesus Christ. Like it or not, you are condemning many brothers and sisters in the faith on non-salvation issues. We are not saved by glory clouds, or believing in mantles but by faith in Jesus alone. It is not a different Gospel/ If they believe Jesus is anything other than the Son of God, and God in the Flesh, I wouldn't even think of defending them. If they believed that works can save us, or there is no hell, I wouldn't support them at all. But they believe in the Risen Lord and it is on the basis of Christ alone they are saved. I personally believe Charismatic Churches need more people who dive deep in scripture, more accountability, and more to challenge them not to confuse being nice and encouraging with the prophetic. If you have something against them, go to the source and go to scripture. Slapping Heretic on them and saying it over and over again does not cut it. What you are saying when you do that is that they are of the devil and are not saved. If they are saved, even if they are off, you are coming against the bride of Christ. You are bashing those that belong to Jesus..

Can you quote Beni? I was at a gay pride festival a few weeks ago. If someone took a picture and blasted it saying I am LGBQ then they would be misunderstanding the context. I was there sharing the Gospel.

Here's their statement of faith https://www.bethel.com/about/ What We Believe There is only one true God who is the eternal King, Creator and Redeemer of all that is. He is perfectly holy, just, loving and truthful. He has revealed Himself to be eternally self-existent – one being in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God. Humankind was created in the image of God to know and enjoy Him yet we willfully rejected the Lordship and glory of God for which we were intended. Because of this, sickness, death and judgment entered the world and now creation experiences the effects and consequences of sin. The Lord Jesus Christ, the one and only Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin, Mary, and is God's Anointed One, empowered by the Holy Spirit to inaugurate God's kingdom on earth. He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected and ascended into heaven, and is now alive today in the presence of God the Father and in His people. He is "true God" and "true man." We are saved by God's grace, through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Anyone can be restored to fellowship with God through repenting, believing and receiving Jesus as their Savior and Lord. The Holy Spirit, convicts, regenerates, justifies, and adopts us as we enter the kingdom of God as His sons and daughters. In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live holy and minister supernaturally. The baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1:4-8 and 2:4 is poured out on believers that they might have power to be witnesses. The victorious redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides freedom from the power of the enemy – sin, lies, sickness and torment. The Church consists of all who put their faith in Jesus Christ. He gave His church the ordinances of baptism and communion. The Church exists to carry on the ministry of Jesus Christ and further advance His kingdom by undoing the works of the enemy, preaching and living the good news of God's love, and discipling the nations – baptizing and teaching them to love and obey God. In the ever-increasing government of God and in the Blessed Hope, which is the glorious visible return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His overcoming bride – His church. Heaven and hell are real places. There will be a resurrection of the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting death.

Ok, did you attend a church that said go to graves and such out their anointing? If you did, I'm sorry but you joined a cult. Passing on Mantles and anointing is not the same thing as grave sucking. If you disagree with that doctrine, thats ok, but that isn't heresy or a salvation issue. if you would like to discuss the doctrine of impartation, lets do it from scripture.

Hell, Hades It is a place of darkness, tourment and gnashing of teeth, as other people posted, it's also where fallen angels are imprisoned waiting for the final judgement 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment Hell, Lake of Fire A place for the final judgement, Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Then show me where he taught that or you have no evidence.

You have an issue with the Word of Faith denomination. Not the same thing. With the Glory of the Lord, we are the new temple, filled with His Presence through His Spirit, it's not the same thing, it's even better!!! 2 Corinthians3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. Also, glory clouds or gold dust don't come to those seeing it, no one was searching for gold dust or clouds when they showed up they were lost in worship and it happened. My friend Keven was at Bethel and he said that night, the church was in deep worship singing the Lords Prayer and then the glory cloud hit, the gold dust was coming up from the floor floating the the ceiling. I responded earlier with much scripture, from the old testament, to the new about the manifest glory of the Lord, can you show me in scripture why that wouldn't happen or that God wouldn't do something like that ever again?

But those who have graduated the school, teachers, etc. don't believe in grave sucking, they are not taught that and will say that is ridiculous. If you have disagreements with their teaching, ok, but please use their teaching. Saying cult, false, heresy, and fake is an opinion of yours and not evidence.

Hi Angel4U, I listened to part 1 and so far it goes against some foundational teachings of Bethel. They do not believe the glory of God left Jerusalem and came to Redding, they believe all believers carry the presence of God though the Holy Spirit. The "if you dont go God will make you sick" Is directly against a core teaching "that God doesn't give people sickness" The rest is the same heresy hunter warnings you see on youtube. Please go to the source. Find sermons by Bill Johnson or other leaders from Bethel and go to scripture and find what they say and where they error. Also, I can't say I agree on everything they teach, but minor differences in theology is not a salvation issue.

Bill Johnson himself said they would visit graves of famous revivalists and use that is a marking point to ask God to do something like that again in the interview with Dr. Brown. There is no anointing in graves or corpses and God is not the God of the dead but of the living. The quote about Mantles, assignments, etc. for us to pick up are in the heavenly realm released through the Holy Spirit. As I said, I haven't searched scripture over this issue but you are misinterpreting what they believe. If you believe they are in heresy, ok, but find me one quote where any of them say you can receive an anointing from a gravestone? And if they believe it, why go through such great lengths to deny it, wouldn't it be easier to just say, we believe this?

Lets look at scripture alone and see what it has to say about things like this. The theology of glory clouds, miracles, and strange manifestations are all tied to one thing, God’s manifest Presence. God is omnipresent, yes but through out the bible there are times when there is a manifestation of God’s presence that people can observe and experience. In the Old Testament, a pillar of cloud and a pillar of fire lead the Israelites through the wilderness. This was the manifest presence of God, and when ever it lifted, the Israelites would follow it. The Lord provided bread from heaven from His manifestation and also meat. Exodus 16:7 And in the morning you will see the glory of the Lord, for He hears your grumblings against the Lord; and what are we, that you grumble against us?” Here you can see the concept of physical objects appearing throughout he cloud of glory. If the bread was from heaven, what about gemstones, gold, or oil manifesting? Scripturally that is not too far fetched and you can say God wouldn’t or doesn’t do that but the burden of proving it through scripture is on you. This passage amazes me, the ground turned into Sapphire and there was an open vision of heaven in the glory. Exodus 24:9 Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. So back to the cloud of glory. Moses would enter the Tabernacle and God would speak to him in this cloud of glory and God considered it face to face as a man would speak to his friend. Exodus 33:10 All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshiped, each man in his tent door. 11 So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. I love how when Moses went out, Joshua was focused on staying in God’s manifest presence. After this encounter, Moses aged God who He would send with them and God said, Exodus 33:14 And He said, “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.” I love Moses’ response, asking to see God;s glory, which God made his goodness pass before him, but also that this presence is what would distinguish Israel from every other nation. They had the tangible presence of God. Exodus 33:15 hen he said to Him, “If Your Presence does not go with us, do not bring us up from here. 16 For how then will it be known that Your people and I have found grace in Your sight, except You go with us? So we shall be separate, Your people and I, from all the people who are upon the face of the earth.” So this manifest presence of God or glory of God is what separated Israel from every other nation. There are a few more references to His glory but lets flash forward to Solomon. Solomon dedicated his temple and held a tremendous sacrifice to the Lord. When all the worshipers became as one, God’s glory came as a cloud and it actually was so heavy the ministers could no longer minister. 2 Chronicles 5:13 Indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: “For He is good, For His mercy endures forever,” that the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud, 14 so that the priests could not [e]continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God. 1 Kings 8: 10 And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. 12 Then Solomon spoke: “The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud. 13 I have surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever.” These passages show the glory of the Lord coming through worship and sacrifice and being so heavy that ministers could no longer minister. Probably because the sheer power and magnitude of His presence caused them to be on the floor. There are many other references to the glory of the Lord in the Prophets, especially in Isaiah, One talks about the heavenly zion and the abiding glory. Isaiah 4:5hen the Lord will create above every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there will be a covering. In the new Testament, the glory doesn’t disappear but it comes in an unexpected way. Jesus came and opened the heavens. He was living House of God at “Bethel” where angels ascended and defended upon Him. John 1:51 And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter[o] you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” Jesus does His first Miracle, turning water to wine. John 2:11This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and [a]manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him. Now we see that the glory of the Lord is in a person. Jesus is not only carrying this glory but also manifesting this glory through signs and wonders. Through out the book of John is a promise to see God’s glory, and Jesus told Mary and Martha that they would see God’s glory before He rose Lazarus from the dead in John 11:40. Jesus prayed an amazing prayer for us. He prayed that we would be one in Him and each other and that His glory is given to us who believe. “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [j]will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: SO in unity in Christ, where is glory. Jesus died on a cross, rose again, and then Pentecost happens. Winds blow, tongues of fire land on the disciples and they speak with new tongues, Peter who denied Christ out of fear now boldly preaches to the multitudes and thousands come to the Lord, but the crowd upon looking at them said they were drunk. Acts 2:13:15 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only [e]the third hour of the day. So the first outpouring of the Spirit, resulted in them looking like they were drunk. Sometimes the manifest presence of God can cause people to look a little drunk, but we are not to be filled with wine but with the Spirit through worship, similar to worshipers in Solomon’s temple. Ephesians 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God. Now if the glory of the Lord came with Solomons temple, how much more us who are His Holy Temple, being built together to be a house for the Holy Spirit? Ephesians 5:21 In whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Now back to Acts. The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter and John prays for a lame man who walks and they get beat for it, they respond by praying for God to do more miracles and more boldness to preach God’s word. The place was shaken and they were all filled. God’s manifest presence had a physical effect on the area. Acts 4:31And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. Weren’t they all filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost? Yet they were filled again. You see the result of that prayer in the next chapter. Acts 5:4 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. 16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. So there was such an anointing that even peters shadow was healing the sick. This was an increase of the glory of God, the manifestation of the Spirit on his life. Phillip carried this so much that when he entered a town demons would screech out in fear. Acts 8:6 And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city As believers, I believe Jesus’ prayer for His glory to be given to us is still valid and His presence changes everything. Why wouldn’t his shows up in a cloud during a service where thousands of people are worshiping Him in one accord? During the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, there was such a manifestation of this glory that fire trucks were called to put out the fire on top of the building. There was a cloud that would appear during the services and that was the birthplace of the pentecostal and charismatic denominations around today. Same thing happened during the Indonesian revival when the Holy Spirit fell on a Church and many were baptized in the Holy Spirit, the end result was over 100,000 people converting to Jesus (Mel Tari - Like a Mighty Rising Wind). This happened in Brownsville, Toronto, Argentina, and Pensacola at the same time. It was this glory that drove the great awakening in the 1700’s and 1800’s. This is so much bigger than a cloud, or gold dust, but this is about seeing and experiencing God’s manifest presence on the earth. This is about His Kingdom coming on earth as it is in heaven. One day we will be in the fullness of it, but right now, it’s at hand, “Within Reach”

When they lost sight of that they stopped taking territory and fell in sin. The testimonies of the Lord position us for Him to move through our lives as well. They inspire faith in the living God. Habikkuk 3:2 Lord, I have heard the report about You and I fear. O Lord, revive Your work in the midst of the years, In the midst of the years make it known; In wrath remember mercy. Judges 6:13 Then Gideon said to him, “O my lord, if the Lord is with us, why then has all this happened to us? And where are all His miracles which our fathers told us about, saying, ‘Did not the Lord bring us up from Egypt?’ But now the Lord has abandoned us and given us into the hand of Midian.” 14 The Lord looked at him and said, “Go in this your strength and deliver Israel from the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?”

He's not a pastor, deacon or elder andI might be wrong but don't believe he's ministered at Bethel since he fell. https://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/special-bulletins/2011/update-todd-bentley-note-bill-johnson#.W42G4H4nbok

1 cor 14, Paul encourages us to seek after specific gifting such as prophesy and interpretation.

Brannam did fall into straight heresy, I believe it started with taking offense, unforgiveness and pride. With Shawn Bolz or others who walk in that type of anointing, I have seen first hand people coming to the Lord because someone called out their name, birthday, etc. It is a powerful tool for evangelism but also for encouragement for the body. If someone is going through a rough time and someone calls out your address and tells you the situation you are going through and what God is wanting to do, that is encouraging. Honestly, the doctrine of passing down mantles, etc. is a minor issue for me. It doesn't have much affect on my life. I do love church history and get inspired and hungry for more when I read about John G Lake, Smith Wigglesworth, William Seymore and the Azusa St. Revival, Charles Finney, etc. But I seek after God. I am going to better research this topic though, but this is a minor point in theology. Seventh Day confuses grace with works and puts things in the way of what Jesus did, Mormons deny the deity of Christ by saying He is only the God of this world and that we are all going to be gods. At the core doctrine of belief, Bethel believes in Jesus, the son of God, died, rose again, and only in faith in Him we are saved. When we put faith in Him, He fills us with His Spirit, and gives us power to live a holy life, and that He's coming again. I also appreciate your concern and I know you have alot of integrity Cobalt. With the Bethel movement, I have seen too many lives changed and people transformed from their ministry. Many of the students who graduated BSSM are my good friends and I take many of them to the streets to share the Gospel. I see first hand the fruit of their lives. I am also someone who takes everything to scripture. I don't have to agree with everything they do or believe to see the good in it. I don't take peoples words for it ether, I go to the source. Can you find me in Bill Johnsons words, him saying we can suck anointing out of graves? You asked for proof of the impact, well their missions around the world are a huge example. In Tijuana, I got to visit a house of prayer that specializes in getting girls out of prostitution that was lead by a bssm graduate. By Impact I mean people coming to know Jesus, as well as coming against social injustices. They are also flooding the streets of Portland where I live in September where thousands of believers and going out to spread the Gospel for an event called Portland 2018. All summer, they have been sending teams and equipping churches to go the streets of Portland and getting those saved connected with local pastors to disciple them. Chris Overstreet, Former Outreach Pastor at Bethel moved up here and is leading this movement. https://www.portland2018.com/ As far as documented evidence, it's pretty much like trying to go to mainstream media to find good things about trump.