JCMS

Since we don't have a recorded picture of Jesus face anywhere, how do we know this is Jesus' face? I have a picture of Jesus right there on my living room wall. He's tall and has long flowing blonde hair with the most perfect germanic facial features I've ever seen Plus he's wearing a wonderful long flowing dress. What do you mean we don't know what He looks like? I stand corrected No..no...no..... Jesus has dark brown curly hair (flowing) and has an olive complexion and beautiful brown eyes... he's holding a lamb and there is a lion at his feet.... I have no clue who you are talking about - but this is what Jesus really looks like. WAIT - WE ARE ALLLLL WRONG.... my friend Liu from China says that Jesus is of smaller build, has Asian features and black straight hair, brown eyes.... Gee.... Glad we are getting this all worked out!! You guys are all too funny.

This photo and small caption are from the Associated Press, on front page of today's Yahoo News. http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/ph...cbc75d45fc97be/ I, for one, think it's pretty cool.

I can already imagine that Heaven is an amazingly beautiful place. I'd like to see a glimpse of hell, just to see exactly how bad it is. For me, I feel it'd motivate me even more to turn from my sin, and walk as closely with God as possible.

I have never heard of vegetarian being a religion... and I've never seen it argued that the Bible "taught" vegetarian practices. A vegetarian is simply someone who does not eat meat, for any range of reasons, like myself.

I was able to Google it and find the YouTube video too. That was absolutely AMAZING!!

This is exactly why I became a vegetarian. I just couldn't continue to support the cruel, inhumane abuse and slaughter of God's beautiful creatures in factory farms.

My fears... Rejection by the Lord. Not being a good Christian. Not making it into Heaven, and going to hell instead. ... And roaches. They creep me out.

I've actually seen that quote several times before. Does that mean someone who is an athiest, and somehow finds, and finally believes in God, cannot be saved? Actually, I re-read the quote. Does that mean someone who is a Christian, but leaves and becomes fully athiest, believing in no God what-so-ever, and then 20 years later comes back to Christianity, cannot be saved?

There is nobody in inner court that are not saved. Your question would do better in outer court. Actually, my question IS for Christians. Those who lost there way even 20 years ago, but are now saved, God-loving Christians. I'd like to know their process. Then again it may be in the wrong place, I wasn't sure where to post in initially. You can move it to whichever forum you think it fits best.

Anyone here ever deconverted as a Christian? (Went from being a Christian, to giving it up, and becoming athiest, agnostic, or a non-Christian religion, ect.). How did that go? What was the process, how long did it last, and what was the process of finding your way back to Christianity?

It's sad... I never seen more judgemental attitudes, until I became a more active Christian. And sadder yet, non-Christians are quicker to lend a helping hand without passing judgement, than almost any Christian I've met. Now that's sayin' something.

Great reply, I fully agree. And to those who were wondering how I could be shocked, and say that this happens often, I guess because it just baffles me. It doesn't baffle me that someone can be a Christian and become an athiest. Doesn't baffle me that an athiest can become a Christian. The part that made me stop and go, 'wow', was because this was a preacher for 17 years. Someone who spent their life preaching the word of God everyday for nearly two decades. It's just harder for me to comprehend how someone can become so... lost, after being so... what's the word... "involved" in his faith, as a preacher anyway. That probably didn't come out the way I meant it, but hey, I tried.

Older article, but interesting nonetheless. ...I have to question *how* a 17 year veteran preacher can deconvert into an athiest over the course of 4-5 years. That's just mind-boggling for me. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2004/nov/13/f...her_deconverts/ Don't talk to Dan Barker about God, Jesus or the Bible. He doesn't believe in any of them. It's kind of surprising for a man who maintained a touring, Christian musical ministry for 17 years, including eight years of full-time, cross-country evangelism. But Barker, 55 -- and an atheist since 1984 -- says his story is not all that unusual. "It's very common, (but) you just don't hear about it. I have about 25 stories of other clergy who have lost their faith and are now atheist or agnostic. They have to keep preaching, because that's what they do. It would shatter their world," he says. Barker, author of the 1992 autobiography "Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist," will speak Wednesday at Kansas University about his "de-conversion" from evangelical Christianity to non-believer and the issue of separation of church and state. His talk is sponsored by the Society of Open-Minded Atheists and Agnostics, a KU student group. Barker is also co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a non-profit organization based in Madison, Wis. "We wanted to have kind of a substantial event in the fall this year to spread awareness of our group. We wanted to do something that would be a little special," says Stephanie Kirmer, 20, a junior from Topeka and past president of the student group. "Dan (Barker) comes from such a fascinating and unique background, we thought this would spike interest in the community. It definitely has." Denied funding The pastor-turned-atheist's upcoming visit has sparked a degree of controversy at KU. The group's request for $1,250 in funding from the Student Senate to help pay for Barker's campus appearance was recently rejected, says Andrew Stangl, 19, president of the Society of Open-Minded Atheists and Agnostics. "The bottom line is they decided SOMA is a religious organization seeking money to fund a religious speaker. In the spirit of keeping neutrality in those matters, they decided it would be inappropriate to give us the money we had requested," Stangl says. The group plans to pay for Barker's appearance using $200 that the Senate gives to student organizations that are officially registered with KU, plus some of the group's own savings. Barker has declined his usual honorarium and is only receiving money for his travel expenses, according to Stangl. "He's been so unbelievably awesome in dealing with this," Stangl said. "He's just an incredible individual." Human reason, kindness Barker's falling away from his Christian faith was a gradual process that lasted four to five years. He publicly announced his atheism in 1984. "It's like having a large debt canceled -- 'Wow, this is great.' There's no more fear of hell or judgment, no more pessimism about human nature, no more guilt about thinking for yourself," he says. In addition to being the author of four books about "freethought" (a term sometimes used to describe atheism and agnosticism), Barker has also written many songs about this subject. Among their titles are: "Friendly, Neighborhood Atheist," "You Can't Win with Original Sin" and "God-Less America." Barker says that since becoming an atheist, nothing has taken the place of Christianity in his life. "Nothing has to. You can live a really good life without a former belief system or religion," Barker says. "In my case, I do have -- instead of a former faith -- an extreme confidence in human reason and in kindness. Because what else is there?"

Actually, there has been a lot more data collected since the 80s. According to the article you site, the results were inconclusive. It is not an open and shut case. There's also talk that the cloth has had repairs done to it throughout its history, and there's speculation that the carbon dating was done, whether purposefully or not, on a piece of the cloth that had been repaired and not on an original piece. Either way, I think the find is an amazing one, and I personally lean more towards it being authentic. Of course, no one is 'worshipping' the cloth to call it a cloth idol. For Christians, it's an awesome find to see a photo of what could be the actual cloth that our Messiah was wrapped in after his crucifixion.

Extremely interesting article! Thank goodness God is in control!