kjn

Thanks for posting. Any biblical advice from your experience, for me in next steps according to biblical guidelines? If you have a response, could you send me an e-mail through this website?

I have not had any contact with him since Jan 2011. At that time, I was told the exact same thing that there should not be male with female one-to-one counseling. I followed the advice to be respectful according to 1 Tim. 5, but at the time I also came across Eph 5:3-11, and was struck by "take no part in the unfruiful works of darkness, but instead expose them." I did not do that and I did not follow Matt. 18:15-17. God knows what I was responsible for at the time and I accept that judgment. And it was a lesson in relying first and foremost on God's Word and His Spirit. But now I believe that it is time to communicate to him following those biblical ways. Again, thanks for the biblical counsel from those who posted.

Thanks again for everyone's responses. The context is important, and it's a good reminder to me to be turning first and most often to God who truly knows each of our hearts, and Who knows and sees all. It's interesting to me that most responses contained some kind of caution. Here is more info: I am a female & not a minor. For about 10 years I was keeping my distance from God, after previously having been in a relationship with God, relating to Him as my Savior & Father. In July 2010 - reconnection with God. In Aug 2010 I saw my uncle who lives out of state. I later mentioned that I had been looking for a counselor and shared some of my concerns about finding biblically based counseling. He offered to counsel me over the phone and by recording cassette tapes. There were several exchanges. He has leadership positions in his church. People in my family, including his wife, knew about the counseling. So the "boyfriend" comment was made during one of those phone conversations about those past 10 years. And I had not in any of those conversations talked about my own romantic relationships. I had other red flag moments about his words, but that comment was the only one that seems most "factual" in just the comment itself. Other comments were more "fuzzy." In Jan 2011, there was one of those "fuzzy" statements, but a red flag gut feeling. I asked 2 different women for advice. And followed the advice to not have any more one-to-one male with female counseling. And followed the advice to be respectful and to say that any further interaction needed to include another person. There is more, but I will write it when I am not struggling to stay awake. I appreciate any and all prayers to God for wisdom for my next step in this situation.

Thanks for your replies. I appreciate people's "gut reactions," (or wherever the reactions came from), because I wasn't completely sure what to think about my own reactions. Additional question: what do you see that the Bible has to say about what my response should be? And anyone who's dealt with this type of thing have any wisdom in how to best honor Jesus, my Gentle Caregiver (Shepherd) in this circumstance?

Hello, It would be nice to get responses from guys as well, because I have already asked a few ladies. My married uncle said to me something like, "How do you think the last few years would have been different if you'd had a boyfriend like me?" What are your reactions/opinions about that statement? Thanks to all.

Actually it's been so long that I forgot! I think my point was that God is no longer in the business of creation. In Genesis God placed the cycles of life in motion, then said, "Go forth...." Even so, isn't He still the ultimate source of any human that comes into existence?

I guess to answer that OR the original question: "Is predestination fair? " you'd have to ask: what IS fairness? As for me, if God does what He wants, then what does fairness have to do with anything whether you're elect or not? Ps 135 The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths. For me, I don't think that the issue is fairness, since God does whatever pleases Him. If fairness is not the issue, then come these questions: why do I want to have anything to do with the God who set it up so that there is an unending hell? I realize that hell is being away from God, but why be with the God who set it up for His created beings to be in torment forever? What does a human matter if there is a hell? And what does a human matter if your eternal destiny is predetermined. According to some, your destiny is either: hell, or heaven with the one who predetermined everyone's destiny, who set up hell and did NOT elect some.

As created beings, on what basis do we have choice? God, by creating, set us up to do and be whatever it is that we do and are. And if God only created the potential for evil, then where did evil come from? Is He still not the one responsible for it? Who put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil into the garden? And IF there is a hell, and if God is the creator and set up 'the way things are", then what keeps a person from concluding that He wanted hell to be? Yes, Jesus warned against it, but hell will be forever. What does warning do if some of your creation still exists there forever? quote: God does not see us as "disposable", but what is he to do when someone willfully rejects God and says "I don't want to have anything to do with YOU!" If he drug that person to heaven against there will, heaven would be hell for that person and true believers would recieve a counterfiet heaven. Basically you're either going to exist forever in hell, or you're going to exist forever with the God who set up the way it is, so that there IS hell. And I can't help a reaction that wishes that I didn't exist at all. but my reaction doesn't matter, because that's the way He set it up and that's the way it will be.

Cajunboy noted::::Hi Kin, you might want to save this as a new "Topic" for another time, as it changes the text of where this topic "Free Will" is headed or intended. Blessings sorry

Rhonda wrote: KJN, I'm sorry, everything seemed to have gotten moved to "Another Take on Free Will" and I don't remember seeing this. Artist for Christ answered your questions yesterday, and I agree completely with this person. In response to your direct question about how God could let people go to hell, there is no one who seeks God. The Bible DOES specify that we all intrinsically have knowledge of Him. We can see intelligent design in creaction, accourding t Romans 1. And we have a conscience, according to Romans 2 -- a law to keep. We would easily surmise that if there is a law, there must be a Lawgiver. If we are drawn to that Intelligent Designer and Lawgiver, it is by God, and we are among the chosen. If we are not drawn -- if we are uninterested -- that is not entirely God's fault. As I stated in the other thread, we act on the information we have. God IS in the background working on those He's called, but we don't know His information. (I like Simon and Garfunkel. They have a song called "Slip Sliding Away". In the song, Paul Simon says, 'God only knows, God makes His plan. The information is unavailable to the mortal man. We work our job, collect our pay, believe we are gliding along, when in fact we're slip sliding away". The part I always want to quote is "God only knows...unavailable to the mortal man." It isn't God KEEPING people from hell -- it is God CHOOSING to save some of us. We are still responsible for not seeking Him out. He's given enough evidence to pique our interest,. Does that make any sense? Romans 3:11 "There is none who seeks for God" and yet you say 'We are still responsible for not seeking Him out.' "If we are not drawn -- if we are uninterested -- that is not entirely God's fault." It doesn't matter whose fault, because if you are chosen, you're chosen. If you're not, you're not and you're in hell forever. it's not about blame, it's about what it says to the created. Yes, I can't get around the fact that He chose Jacob, but not Esau, who was the oldest. But He did not MAKE Esau rebel. Esau knew all about God, he had the same information Jacob did -- he did nothing with it -- God didn't call him. I'm saying that God acts in the lives of those He's called. I don't ask, "Why didn't he choose such and such or so and so, I ask why He chose me? I'm a nobody, who has had an extremely poor track record. I fight addictions, I eventually give them over to Him, He handles them, I get distracted and complacent -- and yet He chose ME!! My love for Him in this is incredible!! I want Him to use me because there other who need to hear the whole gospel. Many have heard the 4 rules of the gospel (we sin, need a Savior, Jesus died for us, belief brings life" so often that it has no impact -- and they never take it personally in their own lives. Even atheists have heard what one must do to be saved -- it's everywhere. But it's not sinking in because the impact has been lost. It is not lost on me, and so I want to be hout there speaking it. I hope this answers your question here. Rhonda

Did not God create Lucifer and all the angels? He set it up so that there is a hell that is unending, and some beings that He created will eternally be there. The created seem to be "disposable" to hell. It's torment forever. That's why the topic of choice is so relevant. If before the foundations of the world, He chose the select humans to be adopted as sons, did He not send the others to hell? He can do whatever He wants, and He does. The love of Jesus dying or any other statement or demonstration of God's love doesn't negate the statement that there is a hell where created beings will be forever in agony and torment. Do I want to escape hell? I don't want to be there, but neither do I want to be with the God who set it up. And our existence continues forever. and what I want or feel doesn't matter anyway if it's already predetermined. That's my initial response.

I am not a greek scholar, don't have the gift of interpretation, but English is a natural to the ol plow man. TO predestinate is to call, being chosen in fact, allows you to see the sons of men as flour, because soon we will all go our way, whether we live in obedience unto righteousness or sin unto death. See this; Isaiah 51

Thanks for your responses and Bible references and perspectives. So, as I think about the word "appointed" used in Acts 13:48, it raises the question: Can something or someone be appointed by someone to something, but the appointed thing doesn't actually occur? Can this happen if God is the one doing the appointing? And now I see that Acts 13:48 doesn't name the appointer, just points out the the appointees. RE Act 13:48 (KJV) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained (other versions 'appointed') to eternal life believed. Strong's concordance gives these definitions for the Greek word 'tasso' 1) to put in order, to station a) to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint 1) to assign (appoint) a thing to one b) to appoint, ordain, order 1) to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority 2) to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon These are other references (KJV) where the Greek word tasso is used. Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. Luk 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it]. Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Act 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 1Cr 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him (Paul) a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening. In all of these cases, it appears that whatever was appointed was carried out. But in Acts 28:23, if Paul had been sick or otherwise deterred, the day had already been appointed, but could've been cancelled or delayed. Appointments can sometimes be made without being carried out. Eph. 1:5 says Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will... The Greek for the KJV ''predestinated" is pro-orizo. pro means 'pre-' orizo means (according to Strong's) 1) to define a) to mark out the boundaries or limits (of any place or thing) b) to determine, appoint 1) that which has been determined, acc. to appointment, decree 2) to ordain, determine, appoint Is the meaning that it's a rigid appointment, or is it that there are boundaries set up? How rigid is the choosing, the predestinating, the appointing? And of course it raises more questions of the appointer and whatever the appointment is. But it just gets me to wondering.

Again, mutually exclusive. Predestination of believers does not need the Word, does not need to hear and surely does not require faith. If it did, it is not degreed, it is not predestination. You couch all your explanation in the will of man, yet think you are predestined to do so. Impossible. It might be better to study the real meaing of predestination. What it means to have something ordained from the beginning. A act by decree, not choice. They are polar opposites. And what is your understanding of the words translated into English as predestined? (Eph. 1)