Isaiah 6:8

If you believe I am here to mock and play games, you can lobby to have me banned. since this thread is about anti theism and why you seem to not just not believe in god but to be openly against the idea it is a pertaint question as if you are only an atheist then you would. Not struggle so hard to disprove god. So I asked why you were hereto see if you were a true atheist or an anti theist.I ask the question and press it as it is rellivent to the thread and I press it because your refuse to answer.this proves to me you are an anti theist . I simply will not answer questions that have already been answered before.or where you twist the meaning of words even your own.

You are. Do you really understand the one message of the the cross. It is the crux of everything we believe That is my point you want control and yo do not want to lose that Then why are you here? I did not respond to the rest as you are just playing word games.

It does not look like your claim has any basis. I did not have much time to go back through the 2000 years, so I stopped at 2009 AD (two years ago) and 20 seconds google:). That does not look like it largely stopped at all LOL http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/24/hindu-sacrifice-gadhimai-festival-nepal Ciao - viole He said largely not completely.

I need to be away for the most part for a while. I do not have the ti e or energy for proper responses also the main reason I started this thread was to state my opinion not so much defend it.

You are on a Christian web site debating the existiance of god. The fact that you are here debating the existiance shows you are trying to disprove his existiance. Here you come in and "warn" another person we are speaking to to not take what we say at face value. That is interfering. I have had to move threads as you have also interfered. You have not answered why you are on a Christian site trying to disprove god. Either you have an agenda to disprove god as you believe that religion is the core problem of society (which I know you believe) or yor are afraid it's true and yor are trying to reassure yourself that it's not or you simply researching some form of paper. The point is this why are you so against the idea of God that you must seek out Christians to debate with? As for me I know without a shadow of a doubt that the god I serve is the one true God. I know this because of the message of the cross. The message of the cross is this. God so loved the world lost in a debt of sin it could never pay that he paid that debt by giving his son for us on the cross. He wants something that no other religion offers a personal relationship with the creator God of heaven. As for converting people we are to preach the word and answer questions and that is what I meant. As for what you will tell god.... Well that is almost word for word what I have heard every atheist say. The issue is this you want god on your terms. He wants you on his. I submit to you that you are rejecting god not because you don't have proof but because there is something about the message of the cross you do not like. Something about the possibility of not being in control of your destiny. I cannot believe you simply disbelieve as one disbelieved in as you say "the flying spegetti monster" if that was the case you would not be here trying to convinces us otherwise.

Hi OES, You are correct. It is the other way around. Freedom (to think) often results in atheism. Regards, UndecidedFrog So if you think this why are you here arguing with us? Why debate with those that disagree with you and why do you try to prove there is no god? If ther is no god as there is no Easter bunny why than do you feel the need to come to our site and try your level best to prove to us that he does not exist and go so far as to try to stop us from converting others? We want to convert others as we see them heading for an eternity without God and we want to save them from those consiquences. If God does not exist than why does it matter if a person converts or not? However if he does exist and he is who we say he is what do you plan to tell him when he asks you why you did not believe? We. He asks you why you rejected the cross?

Uh, no that doesn't work out correctly. Perhaps if you thought the sun, or any star, produced energy from chemical reactions (say combining two hydrogen atoms with an oxygen atom to produce water + energy) that might be the case. However, stars use nuclear fusion which is a much more efficient process. Actually the sun is shrinking at a measurable rate. As its nuclear fuel is slowly fused into other denser forms of matter. So yes it works. And yes it is and has been measured.

Dave Ramsey states as much here

I do not call speciation evolution. You see that then is where the word game goes. You accept speciation, (evolution) so why not the whole deal ( from dino's to birds). You see you are sticking on a word, evolution, and that is why I am saying you speak in word games. Yes I belive in speciation as that is an observed fact. I do not call it evolution as evolution implies changing from one species to an completely different species. I don't think its 100% considered. Its taken an idea and presented it so much that it is simply taken as a fact, and if you fight against that you are presented as crazy. For instance. People believe that you HAVE to have a credit card to rent a car. This is a myth taken as fact. I have had people argue with me over this over and over and yet I have rented multiple cars with out a credit card. You see people have been told a story so often, they simply accept it as true and refuse to look at any evidence to the contrary. Tell me have you ever really looked at all the creation information, with an open mind, or have you done like I have with evolution, looked at it only to disprove the points? You see I was taught, evolution in school growing up, its on TV all day long, in one way shape or form, its in cartoons etc. You see it has been so ingrained into our culture that to fight against it seems that you may be off the deep end or ignoring the facts. I started looking at all the evidence as I was wondering if it fit into Genesis, yes, to see how it worked with the Bible, and when it did not I started taking a better closer look. I found the evidence did not fit, the idea's at even a basic level doe not work. The question is, can you look at the evidence objectively? As the sun burns through its fuel it shrinks at a measurable rate. Using this rate, you can extrapolate the size of the sun. So even 1 Million years ago, the earth would be incinerate. there negating all possibility of life evolving on the planet. Sorry I did miss that I was not clear about that, I am sorry about that. However I have seen you state minimal evidence to ascertain something that we have never seen is possible. A lack of one gas on a moon or a planet I can not remember which. You stated that just because one gas was not found that it was evidence of silicon based lifeforms. If I said a much stronger thing about evolution being wrong, you would tell me the evidence was too weak. Such the fact that it would only have taken Niagara falls 6,000 years to wear down to its current shape from water erosion was evidence of the earth being young. You would state that it was only evidence of the fall themselves being only 6000 years old. you see there are many options to why this is true however if I state that as evidence you would say it was not based on other possible explanations. So yes it is evidence but not a fact. You have shown you choose to belive what evidence you will and ignore other possibility. Many people have presented these facts over the forums. You have looked at them and rejected them. For instance, I have brought up where did sexual reproduction come from. You have stated you do not know. The odds against this happening and working perfectly are next to impossible, and yet you accept that evolution made it possible somehow. I did not want to list a bunch of fact, however since I have time let me go over a few. Then there is this... http://www.biblelife.org/creation.htm Just to start. I ask you to really think of this logic, really look a the evidence weigh it and tell me if you can take it as science or faith.

I know you only accept the biological theory of evolution, and ignore how the rest must tie together. I will not dispute that here. You have already shown you believe in all theories that exclude Genesis as the creation of everything. On that here is a thought, if one, only one of those things, such as the cosmological origins of the universe were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be false would that effect your view on the other fields? Again, there is no facts backing this up, just observation. That was my point. No they do not accept evolution, they accept Speciation. With no chance of evolving. You are putting words in there mouths, and playing word games. I agree with speciation I have already said that. You say that it can go from reptiles to birds. Again with the word games. From creation wiki Unless someone has a vested intrest in keeping the model going. If you really think about it there are millions of dollars and reputations at stake. There is very clear motive to hid and skew the truth. Yes but they took facts to build the original model. If the original model is wrong people often try to force the facts to fit rather then throw away the model. I did make a statment and a link to some. I used the links as my wife wanted me to finish up. Sorry for the shortcut. You missed the point. The point is that there are two viewpoints on the same evidence. It fits two theories. As you have stated you need to choose the best one. That fact was taken based on a atomic fueled sun and therefore the point stands. Only one million years ago the earth would be close to or inside the sun itself. You have shown before that how you define science is completely subjective to your point of view. If it lines up with your beliefs you will take facts as evidence at face value. If the facts do not line up with your world view you will attempt to change it or point out the flaws in it. As evidenced with you trying to change the evidence of the sun. The evidence is there you can not handle it so you tried to change the terms of he evidence rather then think that there may be something there.

This would be the question I am bringing you back to, that has remained unanswered. Then why are you here debating about the existence of god? If there was nothing to disprove, why go to a christian website and purposely try to debate the validity off a belief in God? And yet consider North Korea. Christians are killed and tortured for being Christians, done in the name of atheism. You see, your trying to divert the issue. The real issue is not religion, it is peoples own pride. You see evil people will use what ever they can to justify there own personal gain. Stating that just having religion, is a cause or even a potential cause for people to be evil does not make any sense. I have met many very nice atheists. Really good people. However I know many evil atheists, Joseph Stalin comes to mind. You see there are many criminal evil atheists. Does that mean that being an atheists makes you a criminal? Again. your argument is hollow, You are obviously arguing against the existence of god as you came to our forum, knowing full well it was a christian forum, and started debating with us about the existence of God. You have tried to state that being religious equals automatically a dangerous slope to fanaticism. So again. why are you here trying to convince us that there is no god. Or the other side of this question, why are you here asking us to convince you there is a god? By the way, Christians in general, want people to become Christians, not because they do not like non Christians, but because they want to save there souls which we believe exists.

Are you going to answer my questions? Hi Isaiah, It may be that Stargaze is interpreting your question as a rhetorical one, or even an assertion, neither of which require an answer. Regards, UndecidedFrog actually that was not my question, I forgot to clear the quote tags.

Are you going to answer my questions?

I addressed this. As all of the different issues, biological, cosmology etc. have the same issue. they have facts but no smoking gun. If you want you can apply what I have said to only biological evolution. Please you have said this many times before, but yet have not offered any proof. Matter of fact until I came onto worthy I never met a single theist that was an evolutionist. I met some that never thought about it, and once they did rejected evolution outright, or god outright. You see to make this statement you need two things which you have yet to provide. Factual data and the differences between those that accept evolution with out really thinking about it and those who have really as you have studied it. You see for those who have really studied and understand it, I think you will find those to be far more rare then you would hope. Yes there is a fact that there there multiple verities of some animals, such as dogs and cats. We can trace the development of said verities. However, this is not evolution from dino's to birds. A dog is a dog is a dog. Matter of fact the reason there are so many breeds are due to human intervention, not due to random chance as evolution dictates. Yes there are many species of animals, but we have never seen them ever evolve from one species to another. This is not a fact. You see, playing games with wording does not make something fact. I will not debate wording, we have gone around that merry go round before. You see I have seen many say something to the general extient of "You admit animals change withing a species, that confirms evolutin, the next step is to not belive that genesis was used but dino's turned into birds." I have seen you state this in so many, many words over the year or so I have known you. You see this is where we disagree, we belive that God said that dogs would have dogs, cats would have cats etc. Yes, but how hard is bias fought? You see a little bias repeated over and over again can put you far off the real path. Here is the thing, many of the key scientists knew the math did not work. This is why they even looked into other possible solutions such as a sun centered universe. Oh and eventually they did get the math to make a sun centered universe work, once the effect of gravity was understood they were able to calculate the orbits based on an elliptical orbit vs a circular orbit. I am not going to go to deep into this, as you have tried to simply played word games, trying to move the line of what evidence is and proof is. So beyond word games, for example. ERV"S. people claim this is rock hard evidance for evolution, others claim it is rock hard evidence against it. You can review this thread here for more. Also another thing is this. Ignoring evidence that may disprove your theory, is another way to bias results. I have seen many facts that would fly in the face of evolution, and yet they are ignored. Such as at the rate the sun is burning through its fuel, if you back track that, even one million years ago the earth would be in the center of the sun. I could go on but that is not the point of my thread. I know what science is. I base science off of the scientific method which I have posted here. As for an FYI, I am not an "official" scientist, however I so have a working understanding of many of the fields of science. I understand faith as well. I have seen many mix the two. So again, I do not belive that either of them qualify as "science' but faith, that is supported by the facts you choose to support it with.

Then why are you here debating about the existence of god? If there was nothing to disprove, why go to a christian website and purposely try to debate the validity off a belief in God? And yet consider North Korea. Christians are killed and tortured for being Christians, done in the name of atheism. You see, your trying to divert the issue. The real issue is not religion, it is peoples own pride. You see evil people will use what ever they can to justify there own personal gain. Stating that just having religion, is a cause or even a potential cause for people to be evil does not make any sense. I have met many very nice atheists. Really good people. However I know many evil atheists, Joseph Stalin comes to mind. You see there are many criminal evil atheists. Does that mean that being an atheists makes you a criminal? Again. your argument is hollow, You are obviously arguing against the existence of god as you came to our forum, knowing full well it was a christian forum, and started debating with us about the existence of God. You have tried to state that being religious equals automatically a dangerous slope to fanaticism. So again. why are you here trying to convince us that there is no god. Or the other side of this question, why are you here asking us to convince you there is a god? By the way, Christians in general, want people to become Christians, not because they do not like non Christians, but because they want to save there souls which we believe exists.

I got it!

Also this question is one I have been wondering for awhile. Why is it, if your an atheist who as many have put it does not belive in a god like one does not belive in "the magical pink pony" then why do you try to prove that a god does not exist? Why do you speak about god not existing so much. If something does not exist there are not usually a lot of people trying to disprove it. I do not believe in Santa Claus (as he is portrayed not the historical saint Nichols ) and yet I don't go around trying to disprove him. If you simply do not believe in something, why do you feel that you must disprove it?

That is easy enough to answer. If the truth destroys everything you are and have worked for, and everything you want to do in your life, it often that people will keep it hidden or to fight against it. For instance a Mafia boss knows the truth that what they are doing is wrong, however they will hid that truth, put up a front and make it look like they are doing legitimate business. You see accepting the truth and stopping what they are doing, would destroy there whole identity and life as they know it, so they choose to ignore the truth. For your own selfish motives.

Cannibals..

Full reply later!

I have heard of this, but would like to hear it again, anyway you can start a thread on this topic?

I have argued long and hard with people that belive in evolution. Many say that it is science fact. Just as it is a fact that one plus one equals two. On the flip side I have seen people that are creationists, also state the same thing that creation is science fact. I am going to go out on a limb here and state that both are not science fact but based on faith and emotion. I will say that it is fare more likely to have a creationist admit this over an evolutionist. You see creationists do have faith in a god of some sort that created everything. This is obviously a statement of faith. Evolutionists, by and in large state the opposite. That chance and the laws of science and physics created everything. Some I have seen try to only debate biological evolution and not cosmological, and that is fine. the debate ranges all over the place and yet it does not matter what branch you are talking about the principle is the same. There are many facts, and yet no proof, no hard evidence exists for either view point. Let me explain. In June of 1991 Jaycee Lee Dugard was kidnapped on the way to her school bus stop. The police started the investigation but choose not to focus one facts of the case and choose instead to follower there own idea's of who kidnapped her. They instead of finding the real kidnapper, instead focused on trying to prove that her stepfather was the culprit. They believed he had killed her and buried her, and yet they really did not look at all the evidence, nor expand there search outside of the city as they assumed that they had their facts straight. As it turns out, they had missed the truth. You see they had put there theory first and interpreted the facts through the lens of there own ideas. 18 years later, Jaycee was found alive, being the prisoner of a sexual predator for 18 years and having two children with him. This all could have been avoided if they had stopped to develop there theory from the facts, not trying to fit the facts to there theory. That sums up what I have seen. I have yet to see any facts presented from any side of the debate that was not twisted to fit the theory. You see science does not allow for personal theories. When it comes down to it, you must take what the facts state, not what you want them to. So far I have yet to see a single fact presented by any party that is not presented without bias. They all tell you the facts, then tell you what it means, from there own point of view. So if there is no science fact. If the facts are twisted and explained to fit the theory, not forming the theory, as it should be, then it by definition can not be science. If not science then what do you have? Mere belief, or faith in what you are stating is right. So do I believe in science? Yes. I use a computer don't I? I enjoy my cellphone, my modern medicines cars and planes and other such products of science. As for how we got here, and how the plants and animals came to be the way they came, well I admittedly have a belief that God created everything as he spoke in Genesis. The more I learn about the universe, about the planet, about the wild places and deep oceans, the more it enforces my belief that God made all this beauty. However, I will not say my belief is scientific. I just see that the facts can fit my belief. I am not stating that they prove it. On the flip side I look at evolution, and I find that there is always a twist to how it is presented, and how it is presented as science fact, when in reality there is no proof that it is fact. This makes be think that people have a belief system all there own, and yes, the facts seems to support there beliefs as well. But again it is just that. Belief.

Miss Print???? What do you mean?

Luke 14:26 New King James Version (NKJV) 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

All I know is I am praying for you Sis.