Isaiah 6:8

We do not allow people to simply come onto worthy and teach, especially when its against the statement of faith. I am closing this thread if you want to ask it to be reopened pm me please.

As God's word tells us, to answer your question; Rev.22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. I cannot tell you in my own words. I can only tell you what God tells us will allow entrance into His kingdom. God, not me, tells us that keeping His commandments is what is needed for salvation? Because there are only TWO choices; life in God's kingdom, which is salvation from the second choice. Or life in the lake of fire! Do you not agree? . . Have you read what I wrote? or have you ever read Romans? What you are teaching is not Christianity, it is Islam.

Then why do you not quote whole chapters where the very chapter contradicts what your position is? You have done this multiple times. Please do not call Kettles black, if you are indeed a Pot.

Okay this is turning into yet another Catholic doctrine thread. This is going to stop, now, or I will shut down the thread. No questions asked, and I do not care who started it. I saw this coming as I saw the direction Chesterton was going already with the catholic doctrine of salvation by works and faith, not faith alone. In answer to the OSAS question in the original OP I think the parable of the Sower explains it and unless I have missed it explains everything. So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow. Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith. You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born. Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical. To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible. This verse sums it up. We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.

Okay, I tried to remove all of the thread hijacking and posts replying to the thread hijacking, If I removed a post that was to the OP I am sorry pm me and I'll try to fix it!

Error Fixed

Oh, my, Izzy! That is one of my favorite worship/reflection songs. It does perfectly describe the wonder of nature and properly attribute it to the majesty of God. At times I cry just listening to it and thinking of all the wonders He formed and could brag on, I am the one He is has choosen to take pleasure in. Humbling, for sure. Amen.

Your welcome! I was inspired by this thread by TinTiger

I removed all the posts relating to S-word. Please continue with the original op. Thanks.

Yes, and we need to be praying for these people for they need Jesus.

In a nutshell This song and everything it describes! Also I have been blessed by living in wonderful beautiful places from the mountains to the oceans my whole life! Our God is an AWESOME GOD!

A missionary friend of mine wrote this in 2005. I asked him if I could post it here, he said yes, after he made a few changes and asked me not to cite him, so I am honoring that request. If you want to know how to reach Muslims, he suggest this book; "Building Bridges: Christianity and Islam" by Fouad Elias Accad. This man has been able to lead about 70% of the Muslims he has shared with to Christ. No its not my friend, just the book he recommends.

Please actually answer the question I asked. Your words have nothing to so with Pauls words. How do you sow faith, by the way? Regarding sowing: 2 Cor 9 6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work Regarding our responsibilities: Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Then how does the sowing and reaping in this scripture deal with salvation? And why do you ignore the preceding paragraphs that makes it clear that works do not save. As I highlighted.

Please actually answer the question I asked. Your words have nothing to so with Pauls words. How do you sow faith, by the way? Regarding sowing: 2 Cor 9 6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work Regarding our responsibilities: Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Then how does the sowing and reaping in this scripture deal with salvation?

Please actually answer the question I asked.

Now in proper context of the rest of the verse. You see in context, this verse is not about salvation by works, but about not boasting in who you are, and that your works, will show where your heart is. What you sow you shall reap that is principle that speaks to faith. You see sowing to the spirit, would be faith, would it not? How do you so to the spirit? You see this is a call to good deed, however at the end of the chapter, Paul again reiterates that only the cross matters. You see another part of the context is this, you must take all of the book in. So lets look at Galatians chapter 3. The full thing. Galatians 3 The bold big letters spell it out. Same author that you claim speaks that works are needed for salvation. We are not justified by works but by faith. We are not justified by faith alone or works alone. Your longer quote in no way changes the meaning of these words: A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. I addressed that. Again you are taking things out of context. Context is important especially when it comes to salvation. So your stating that Christianity is just like every other religion, you have to work for it?

I know this may be a hard one to understand but the gift that Jesus gave was not salvation! The gift that He gave ALLOWS each and everyone of us the chance at salvation! Now that He has given us the means or way to salvation it is up to us to do what is needed to obtain it. . You see the problem with this is simply that if you believe this then there is nothing to separate Christianity from the rest of the world religions. You see only Christianity teaches a free gift of salvation. Every other religion on the planet teach that you must do some sort of work to achieve holiness/heaven/nirvana whatever.

My friend, you need to take the scripture in totality, as you have said. So lets take that scripture and put it in context... and I'll break it down. This speaks to just idle belief, under the guise of faith. oh yes, be full, and then look at them and not give them any food? that is work-less, dead faith, one that even the demons have as he states further on. So, like you are stating that you can say you have faith but with out showing it do you? You see as it states in Hebrews 11, Abraham believed that God would raise his son from the dead, and that is why he was willing to sacrifice Issac. You see his faith was tested, and he proved it by his works. So in this way we prove that our faith is very real. You see the proof of the faith is in the works of faith. But they come from the faith. Abraham did not simply try to kill his son. He did it by faith. Not just works. You see again the core justification was by faith. The best way to put it is this. The works you speak of is simply Faith, in action. So even the works are not works but again faith. So we are saved by and justified by faith. We are then required to put our faith into action to prove its not just simple belief.

We seem to have a confusion on what faith really is, and how it works..... Lets take a look at one of my favorite chapters on faith, Hebrews 11. Notice the pattern, they By faith, then did some work or deed. The work or deed was done from, and by faith. It was not done one its own, It came from the faith, Faith as it were is a well that we can draw the good works from. You see we are justified by faith first. THEN the works come. You see if you do not have faith, and your works will be empty, have no life, be dry. If you have faith but do not do anything with it, its not really faith, its only belief and easily turned to unbelief by the merest whim or even the thought of putting any action to the faith. So if you have faith, you are justified. Being Justified, you will as a byproduct do good works, as God is making you a new creature. As you are a new creature your very behavior will show the change from old to new. You see its not just the faith but the life change that Christ works as you let him.

You accept the gift. You sit on the shoulders. What you are saying is that by spending the energy to open up your hand and take a gift is work. This is not works, or a work. It is simply receiving. You see your right though, that is where my illustration breaks down, you do have to climb onto and hold on to the shoulders. In reality, once you accept the Gift, God lifts us and carry us along we do nothing but relax in him and allow him to make us into a new creature. Nope it says over and over again that he was justified by Faith. As you read in my previous post in Galatians. So no, in fact the word does not say he was justified by works.

Okay Here is one example. Now in proper context of the rest of the verse. You see in context, this verse is not about salvation by works, but about not boasting in who you are, and that your works, will show where your heart is. What you sow you shall reap that is principle that speaks to faith. You see sowing to the spirit, would be faith, would it not? How do you so to the spirit? You see this is a call to good deed, however at the end of the chapter, Paul again reiterates that only the cross matters. You see another part of the context is this, you must take all of the book in. So lets look at Galatians chapter 3. The full thing. Galatians 3 The bold big letters spell it out. Same author that you claim speaks that works are needed for salvation. We are not justified by works but by faith.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:5-6) Gal 6 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Matt7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Titus 2 11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. Romans 2 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Chesterton, the others have replied with full context of scripture, including other verses around it. You are the king of one liners. You see if you take anything out of context you can make it mean what every you want. Please put your verses in the full context of the chapter they are in. By not doing this you are digging yourself a hole.

Did Jesus give EVERYBODY this 'free gift of salvation'? . Yes, all you have to do is confess your sin, ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. It is all by faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone. If you die at that moment, you are correct. However, you seem to be missing much of scriptures message. Did you read these? Matthew 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Colossians 3:25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." Gal 6 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturea will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Romans 2 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Matt 16:27 Matthew For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 2 Corinthians 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. Wow many of those scriptures are taken out of context. You must use the full scripture to have the correct context. Please show this with full context of scripture.

It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46. Does not sound like a very fair God...to have TWO criteria's for salvation now does it? . Rewards apart from salvation, I believe is what he is speaking of. Extra rewards in heaven for a job well done.This apart from the free gift of salvation. I believe that is a modern interpretation that contradicts much of scripture. Did you see my post in response to your question? You speaking to me or Eccl?