busdriver72

Two thousand years is plenty of time for an idea or philosophy to develop in a country. From a strictly cultural standpoint the view toward Jesus is one of doubt and suspicion in Israel. While secular Jewish folks may be indifferent toward Him, it is quite different for religious Jews. From childhood they are taught to not even say His name, but refer to Him as "that man." Many rabbis even avoid Isaiah 53 to prevent the discussion from coming up. For deeply religious Jews He is viewed as a false prophet and/or false teacher. It is natural, therefore, that someone who is viewed as a failure, a false teacher, etc., would not be viewed as a hero.

It appears that the majority of the class is either too apathetic to take a stand with you, OR disagrees with you. Withdrawing from the class might get someone's attention, and if someone reaches out to you (such as a minister) you might make it clear that you believe Sunday School class is for the express purpose of teaching Scripture and not political debate. If they agree with you then you need to make it bluntly known that isn't happening in that class. If they don't agree with you then I'd seek Christian fellowship and edification elsewhere. If Biblical moral and spiritual principles are being clearly taught then there would be no political debate in a class...it wouldn't be needed.

It looks quite believable to me. And I'm a French model. Bonjur! (Surely someone will get it.)

What's so sad about that?

When I said "I think we're all going to be suprised" I didn't mean the Lord was going to reverse Himself or pull a switch on us. I simply meant there is the possibility that some of our interpretations as to the sequence and timing may be off a bit. It will not affect His return and the fact we WILL be caught up to be with Him! As I heard a Pastor once say jokingly "I'm Pre-trib, and as best as I humanly can, I think Scripture supports Pre-trib. I just hope Jesus is Pre-trib!"

"Rapture" comes from the Latin "raptura." It means to be "caught up." It is found in the Latin text, which is where the word "rapture" comes from. I lean toward a "rapture" theology, but the rapture itself is not my hope or deliverance. Christ. Our salvation is not dependant upon whether or not our rapture theology is exactly right. Nor is it dependant upon whether our "anti-Christ" theology is dead on either. Sunday mornings we are doing a study of Daniel and in the evening we are going through Revelation. While I can understand the leaning toward the Roman Catholic system as being the anti-Christ, I can't fully buy into it. The anti-Christ will arise from the remnants Rome (the toes of clay mixed with iron, the 4th beast with 10 horns...from which another horn comes up from the midst of. Book of Daniel chap 2 & 7.) It won't be the Roman empire, but it will have the empire attitude. It will be aggressive, dominating, arrogant, self-exalting, pompous. It will seek to not just resist Christ, but to actually replace Christ. It will hate the real Christ and exalt itself as Lord and Savior. The Catholic system, while it may somewhat down-play the saving power and merits of Christ Himself (thus making the Catholic gospel...in my opinion....a false gospel), does not quite fit the bill. I have not ruled out the possibility that the anti-Christ may be Islamic in some form. Islam is anti-Christ in nature ("God has no son" is a common Islamic saying.) There is also a strong Islamic belief that there is coming a TRUE Messiah (in their minds), and Lord and Savior type figure, who will arise. His arrival and ascension will also be accompanied by war and massive death.....including the extermination of Christians and Jews. But then again, that's just guessing on my part. Personally, I think we're all going to be suprised.

While many point out the pagan elements in our other holidays like Christmas and Easter, there is at least something Christian about them. There is nothing Christian about Halloween or any elements associated with it. It can be traced back and associated with demonic spirits and child sacrifice. While the population at large is oblivious to this, and simply view it as a time of fun, Christians should be aware of its history. We did not "celebrate" halloween, but we didn't throw rocks at those who did. If people asked us why, we told them. They are often shocked to learn the truth behind "trick or treat" and bonfires. But I reallt don't think this results in "guilt by association." The little guy at my door dressed like a ghost with his plastic pumpkin to hold candy isn't aware of anything except that he's having fun and getting some goodies. It's an excellent time of year to reach out. Gospel tracts with candy.

Several years ago I was at a convention of sorts, and the speaker began ranting about a well known Biblical teacher that I respect highly, and the issue was giving, or "tithing." This well known teacher taught that Christian giving under the New Testament is not dictated by law, but by grace. Give as you have been given. If you have been given to graciously by God, then give back graciously. He didn't attack the 10% rule, but taught rather don't be governed by it. Let the giving be an act of worship that truly honors the Lord. This is commonly known as grace giving. Then he went on to speak about how a certain pastor taught that at his church. The end result is that giving fell down dramatically. Many got upset with the pastor for preaching that. Rather than finding fault with the congregation, this speaker attacked the grace-giving concept. His idea was that if you don't preach or teach at the least a 10% "tithe" it won't work. People won't give if you leave it up to them. Churches cling to the "tithe" terminology to combat this mind-set. He failed to take into account that the church from which this well known teacher comes from practices grace giving, and they are financially able to minitser in anyway they wish. The church is very financially stable and even sends out and supports several of their own missionaries. He completely, totally failed to consider that the problem was a congregation that had little or no concept of the grace shown to them...little love for God that moved them to give. The "tithe" concept does come from the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures. Actually, there were several tithes throughout, and added on to them were various offerings. If a person wants to be a strict tither followng the Old Testament pattern of tithes and offerings, the total you'd be giving would NOT be 10%....it would come closer to 25-30% or more. As a I look into 2nd Cor chaps 8-9, and I see the generous giving that was done by Christians, what stands out is that the driving motivattion was "the grace of God," "abundance of joy," "giving themselves," "sincerity of...love," "proof of your love..." "cheerful giver" and the "surpassing grace of God in you." Now consider all of that. And now consider that if a congregation is given the freedom to determine for themselves how they will give (with no tithe language or terminology being used) and giving plummets downward, what is this really saying?

Just because a person has been baptized into water does not mean they have been baptized into Christ.

What is bothering me is the direct role of the Lord Himself that seems to be missing from many posts in this topic. There is a large emphasis on what the human being does, yet little on what God Himself does. We have also created a false division between the two. What God does directly affects what the person does. If God does not move or act, neither will the person. John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me." Regardless of how you want to interpret that, it takes an initial act on the part of the Father. v.44 "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him." Pretty clear. No, God doesn't drag people kicking and screaming, but His Spirit is directly involved in convicting and convincing....enlightening....drawing the human heart and mind. And let us recall Peter's (...well...the disciples's) confession to Jesus that He is the Son of the living God, to which Jesus replied that flesh and blood (their own human mind and heart) did not reveal it to them, but His Father in heaven had revealed it them. Now, let us fast forward to ACTS 8:26-39, which is the account of the Ethiopian eunuch. God obviously was at work drawing the man...preparing him for the gospel, and the Lord HIMSELF saw to it that Philip shared Christ with the man. In the following verses we see belief...and then we see an unbroken flow to baptism. Do you see how not only did he happily believe...but he happily [desired/i] baptism? Is it too hard to accept that the God who draws the person to Christ also moves him to believer's baptism? Something else that you do not see is Philip saying "Okay, now you're not finished yet. We'd better get you baptized. Even though you believe with all your heart, if you die 2 feet from that water over there you'll go to hell!" No. We see no rush for baptism....no PUSH for it. Rather the Ethiopian wanted to, and Philip's response was that he "may" be baptized (that is, allowed to be) ONLY if he already believed with all his heart. The God that moves the person to believe will also move them to baptism. It is God's word and will that people beleve in His Son.....and it is His word and will that believers be baptized. Baptism is a marker...an identifier....an outward confession and profession of the believing heart....for without the believing heart, baptism is worthless. Even as we move to the book of James, this does not change. You must take James 2:14-26 in its complete context. Do not chop it up or divide it or you will lose the proper context. James was in essence speaking about two kinds of "faith." One was a "dead" faith....a fake one that doesn't produce. Ever had a dead flashlight battery? How did you know it was dead? Simple.....it didn't work! The other is, of course, real faith. What is the difference? V.22 "You see that faith was working with (or by, through, in) his (Abraham's) works." It does not say "You see that works was working with his faith." FAITH was working......it was alive and producing...it had breath...spirit.(v.26) The works showed the faith to be valid, or "perfected,"...complete, whole, or as it should be. This is further reinforced by by v.18, which clearly says that works are what "shows" or "reveals" what the so-called "faith" really is. Yes, it does say in v.24 that a "man is justified by works and not by faith alone." The CONTEXT indicates he means it is uselss for a man to SAY he has faith if that faith doesn't have any life to it. That man has no reason to believe he is justified because there is no evidence for it. "Dikaoo" ...."justified" in N.T. Greek, CAN mean the act of declaring someone to be innocent in a legal sense, but it also has a practical, non-legal application. It can also mean reveal or show justification. It is God who does the justifying, and we receive that justificaton through faith, and real faith will be working, and the working reveals our justificaton. Our works justify our profession of faith as being real. Yes, a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.....BECAUSE real, living faith WILL NOT BE ALONE. But say that even if someone believes with all their heart, and if they are actually, physically unable to be baptized (say they die before being baptized) is not saved and goes to hell completely evacuates and renders void the heart of faith. It renders faith pointless and worthless. Psalm 7:10, 44:21, 51:17, 139:23, and ISH 16:7 make it clear that the Lord looks at the heart, for it is with heart one believes. Many have pointed out the theif on the cross, and the fact that Jesus told him he would be in paradise with Him. How? Why? He wasn't baptized. He never had a chance to justify his profession of faith! HOW could he be in paradise? Simple. Because Jesus SAID SO. Jesus said "TRULY I say to you...you WILL be with Me in paradise." When Jesus said to demons "Get out".......they got out. If he told a fig tree to die....it did. When Jesus said "be healed".....they were healed. When Jesus told the dead to rise....they rose. And if Jesus delcared the man would be in paradise....he was! And if the fact that the Lord of Lords said so is not enough for you....then the least of your problems is the issue of baptism.

I am a Southern Baptist pastor, and I once lived in a town where the Baptist churches were so liberal that the Church of Christ pastor was the only local pastor that I could relate with theologically. All this talk about what we must do to be saved...let us be careful. The only bonafide work that results in salation is one that you and I cannot do. Christ Himself did the "works." Consider 2 Cor 5:21. In essence, it says that Christ was judged as though He had lived our sinful life so that we could be judged as though we had lived His life. Righteousness does not come through a work.......Christ IS our righteousness. Baptism does not MAKE someone righteous or sanctified. Having said that however, why do we sometimes think that just because something may be a work....we think it is optional. Keeping commandments do not save the soul.....yet they are not optional. I was my father's son......my obedience didn't make me his son.....yet my obedience was not optional either. Some say Baptist do not believe in Baptism......really? Then why are we called "Baptist?" I do not believe the physical act of getting wet while being immersed in water by a pastor saves the soul, yet I do not believe that any command given by the Lord is optional. If someone professes Christ, I counsel them. If they cannot or will not give a personal testimony as to their faith in Christ, before the church of Christ, then I will not baptize them. If a person is apathetic, or refuses Baptism, I am under no obligation to consider them saved. Personally, I believe baptism has nothing to do with the "putting away of the filth of the flesh" (sin, corruption), but it is an "answer," the response of a clean conscience before God...the response of some who has been made righteous and sanctified in Christ. Baptism is inseperable from our testimony...our witness. Personally, I know of know sincere, born-again believers in Christ who dismiss or neglect baptism. Rather than worrying about unbaptized believers in Christ, I think a bigger worry are the baptized UNbelievers running around out there.

As it has been already pointed out, this was a parable.....a story which illustrates a truth. There was no LITERAL chopping and hacking going on here. However, what is illustrated is the absolute right of God to judge and rule. While God loves His enemies in the sense that He sent His Son to die for them, and grace is granted for those who repent and receive Christ, His holiness calls for the righteous condemnation of those who reject His love and grace. I think perhaps also the enemies in this parable represent those who attempt to "use" the Lord, but care nothing personally for Him. The text is clear in that the ones being slain are "enemies." An enemy is one who is against...opposed...an adversary. It is a picture of warning....a picture of final judgment. But even the grace of God is seen. There is not instant final judgment when someone first rejects Christ.....quite often people have more than one chance. These "enemies" were given all they needed, and were given ample chance and time. They wanted the benefits of salvation, but cared nothing for the Savior.

I'm not exactly sure how a 7 year tribulation theology equates into the "2nd chance" theology. But anyway, "anti-Christ" is a "spirit." A spiritual power, influence, or whatever term you want to use. John 4:3 states it pretty plain...every spirit that does not confess Jesus is from God IS the spirit of the anti-Christ...which is coming....and now is. The anti-Christ is not coming.....it is already here and has been for a long time. The Biblical anti-Christ is not any one single person, no more so than the pro-Christ is any one single person. The Gnostics were the anti-Christ....and the Beast and False Prophet of Revelation are as well. The anit-Christ is: -those who deny that Jesus is the Christ (His Messiahship) - those who deny the Father and the Son (their oneness, deity) - those who deny Jesus is from God (eternal origin) - those who deceive (distort the truth or misuse it) - those who deny Jesus came in the flesh That fits into many theologies and groups.

We've all heard this one, but it bears telling again.... A man went up to the white house guard and said "I'd like to see President Hillary Clinton." The guard looked puzzled for a moment and then responded "Sir, Hillary Clinton is not the president." The man said "Thanks" and then left. The next day, the man came back and again said "I'd like to see President Hillary Clinton." The guard once again said, a little more firmly, "Sir, Hillary Clinton is NOT the president." The man smiled, nodded his head and said "Thank you." He then left. The next day AGAIN the same man came and said to the guard "I'd like to see President Hillary Clnton, please." The guard managed to keep his composure but was a little ticked. He said "Sir, with all due respect, I have told you two times now that Hillary Clnton is not the president! What part of that do you not understand?" The man answered "I understand what you're saying..." pausing to close his eyes and smile widely...."I just love hearing you say it!"

I guess I'll wade into waters here. One the one hand it is not reasonable to think that the unregenerate, sinful flesh would hear the gospel call (to deny ones self, take up the cross and follow the Lord)would jump up and say "goody!" The carnal nature does not want to deny itself. But then again, it is silly to envision the Lord pulling someone by the feet, with their hands clawing the ground as they get dragged away going "Noooooooo! I don't want into the Kingdom of Heaven." and the Lord saying "Who cares? You're going anyway!" Election, free will, presdestination? All of them are Biblical, and somehow the Lord makes it all work to His good pleasure. Figure it out???? I'm still trying to get my mind around GOD and the glory of who He is. When I get God figured out, then I'll be back to explain everything to y'all....'cause if I get Him figured out, everything else will be easy. Really, though, there is a mystery here that regardless of how hard we try we will not be able to get our minds around it. The Bible reveals God calling and electing throughout history. That's nothing new. But it also reveals Him holding people accountable for their decisions. Also, I have pondered human "free will." Really, it isn't free. No matter what you "will," or what decisions you make, somehow....in some way you have been influenced. All of our decisions....from what time you get up to what soda you drink....is influenced by an external factor. The human will is not free from being controled or influenced, but it is free in the sense that it can be influenced. Apart from the Holy Spirit, we would not turn and follow Christ. Since the Holy Spirit is the personal presence of God, contact between God and a human is a personal thing, so, in a very real way God "elects" the person He is drawing toward Christ, or He has "ordained" them.