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ArtistforChrist

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  1. damo1 , Your view of God is flawed also. Jesus claimed, many times, that he was God, His followers said he was God, The Father calls him God. John 1, Col. 1, Phillipians 2, Hebrews 8, Rev. 1, etc all say Jesus was God. In Jewish Culture, a Son is considered to be of the same essance or nature as his Father, so by saying he was the Son of God, Jesus was claiming Deity, he was even claiming deity we he said he was the Son of Man, it is a referance to a prophecy in Danial about one with the Apperance of a Son of Man coming before the Anciant of Days and was allowed to be worshiped, which only God can recieve worship. God Bless, Artist <><
  2. Onwings, You say that Jesus had a sinful nature, that is not true, He was fully God so therefore could not sin, this is what the Temptation by Satan was for, to show that he could not sin, All of Christ temptations came from without, not from within, because if Jesus had the ability to sin, he would not be a perfect sacrifice, He said even thinking of sinning is a sin. In another thread you said that Jesus was praying to the Father, but yet you say he is the Father, you are contradicting yourself, either he is the Father, or he is separate from the Father, if is the Father, he would be praying to himself, which would make him crazy. People pray, natures do not, Jesus had two Natures, a human Nature, and a Divine Nature, Fully Man, Fully God. Jesus said he was separate from the Father, Read John 8, Jesus said he testifies of himself, and the Father testifies about the Son, giving TWO witnesses, referring to the OT rule about a least two witnesses needed to count. God Bless, John
  3. The Scripture about the dead know nothing means they don't know what is happening on Earth. Revelation 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. This is before the Resurrection of the Dead, and the Souls of the myrtered are conscious under God's Throne. God Bless, ArtistforChrist <><
  4. Hello all, I don't know what all has been said because I did not have the time to read every post, so forgive me if I re-state what has already been said. The Bible clearly states the doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus is not the same as the Father, He prays to the Father, if he was the Father, he would be crazy or a split personality, he also said he would send "another" refering to the Holy Spirit and the most convincing scripture that the Father and Son are two distinct persons is this one: John 8:1318-The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid." Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." If Jesus is the Father this statement would be a nonsensical argument on Jesus behalf. God Bless, ArtistforChrist <><
  5. Butero, I believe, once a person is saved, he or she will not want to turn away from God. The Bible says that we are new creations, and that the Holy Spirit is a deposit, guaranteeing what it to come, and one of the Epistles ends with "To the one who is able to keep us from falling". We can fall on board, but never overboard. When we sin, the Holy Spirit will convict us so we will repent and be daily changed into the image of Christ. Christ's words on the cross was "It is Finished", so once we accept salvation, our sin debt is "Paid in Full", the literally translation of that phrase. It is what the Romans would stamp on paper stating that a debt was paid off. We owe nothing. That is why I believe the truth lies in the middle of the two sides, Calvinists see the passages about predestination and eternal security and run one way with it, and Arminiusits see the passages on free will and run the opposite direction. I believe both sides believe they have the whole truth and are true Christians. This is a secondary Issue, not one essential for salvation. As Long as we all agree that We are sinners in need of Saviour who paid it All, that salvation is based on God's grace and not of Works, along with other essentials, I will gladly call you my Brother or Sister in Christ. We can debate this, but we don't have to divide over it. God Bless, John702
  6. Didn't quite catch what your meaning is here EricH, I accept that Predestionation exists, but disagree on the way predestionation takes place, I think the truth lies within the middle somewhere of Calvanism and Arminiuism 7c, I accept that we have a sin nature, but we also have free will, that is was my point with Adam, nothing more. The quote from Matthew is that Jesus would have saved the Jews if they were willing, he wanted to save them, but they rejected him. John 1 does not disprove free will, it says that salvation cannot be worked out by the will of man, it is totally, wholly a free gift of God. God Bless, ArtistforChrist
  7. 7c, I beleive the Holy Spirit reveals to us the truth and gives us the ability to choose, but we still must choose. Love is rendered meaningless if it is not from our Free Will Choice, we would just be pre-programed robots, and if that is all God wanted we would not have created Adam the free will to have the ability to sin in the first place. Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD." Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. John 1:11,12 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
  8. 7c, God knowing the future does not mean it is pre-determined, God is all-knowing so he knows what we will do when offered a choice, It is like offering a child a cookie or brussel sproutes, you know what the child will pick, but that does not take away his or her choice in what they want. If a person is chosen and has no choice but to accept, that is not love, we are offered Salvation by God through the Holy Spirit, and we must decide to accept or reject, that is not a work, We can be given a gift by someone, something we did not deserve or work for, but if we lay it on a shelf and do nothing with it, it is no good to us, Salvation is the same way, it must be accepted to be usefull. The two positions I posted are the ones I go back and forth with, Where God looks through time and knows what each person would do with a choice, and it still be our choices, or The Holy Spirit reveals the truth to an individual and than that person either accepts or denies salvation. No way is either works based, God does all the work. God Bless, ArtistforChrist <><
  9. Kjn, Lucifer was created prefect, God did not create, evil, only the potential for evil, He gave Him FREE WILL, to act or act otherwise, he wanted the angels to CHOOSE to love him, because without choice, love is rendered meaningless. Lucifer decieded he could be better than God, so sinned, so hell was created as a place of quartine Lucifer and his angels on the day of judgement. He gave Adam and Eve the same choice, follow me, or don't they choose to reject God and be there own gods, therefore, anyone on the day of judgement who stands on his own rightousness is justly condemned to Hell. God could have let every single person go to hell without offering a solution and he still would have been Just. But GOD loved US, DIED for US, so ANYONE willing to bow the knee will be accepted and seen as Holy through the Shed blood of Christ. My view on election is something like this: Every person has the choice to accept or reject this free gift of grace. God in his Sovernignty looks through the corridors of time so to speak, sees a person and what that person would do given the choice of Salvation. To those who accept this Gift, they are CHOSEN for salvation. Another way is this, the Holy Spirit reveals the Truth to someone and gives them the oppurtinity to accept or decline. Without free will to accept or reject, we would be nothing more than robots or chatty cathy dolls, pull the string we say "I LOVE YOU" God does not want that, we wants us to CHOOSE to love him. God does not see us as "disposable", but what is he to do when someone willfully rejects God and says "I don't want to have anything to do with YOU!" If he drug that person to heaven against there will, heaven would be hell for that person and true believers would recieve a counterfiet heaven. Annihaltion doesn't work either because he would be taking a peice of his creation, created in his image, whom he gave the choice of rejecting him, and putting them out of existance. The Only solution for Sin that is not laid at the foot of the Cross is quartine in Hell. It may be sad, but it is that person's choice and God is simple honoring their choice to be separated from him. God Bless, ArtistforHim <><
  10. Sherman, Ok, sorry, just read parts of the thread, some things just jumped out, thought I respond. ArtistforChrist <><
  11. Kjn, Do you realize that Hell was NEVER intended originally for People, it was created for the devil and his demons. Man was never meant to go there. But Mankind sinned against a Holy God. Sin MUST be punished,A Holy God cannot abide sin in his presence. Sin can't be swept under the rug and be ignored. Every single persons deserves to go to hell, But God loves us so much that he provided a way. He sent his Son, The Second Person of the Trinity, to DIE for us horrible sinners. The very one who Made us came and lived among us, lived the perfect life we could never live, and died the death we could never die. Then, to give us hope, all those who trust in him, he arose promising that one day we to will rise, uncorroptable. All this is a Free Gift to all who will recieve it. Though, for a Gift to be usefull, it must be accepted and opened, if one rejects a gift, it is no good. A God that does not punish sin is not holy, if sin is not punished, Justice is not carried out. Someone Like Hitler can do all the things he did and then die in the arms of his lover with no consequences. a Just God demands a Hell. No one in Hell can cry "FOUL, I don't belong here!" Everyone who choses hell, that right choses hell by rejecting to live by God's Commands, deciding to live the way they chose, will belong there, God is totally Soverign and Just and will not sentence anyone to hell that doesn't deserve it. There are also degrees of punishment in hell, the everyday pagan won't get the same punishment as Hitler or his ilk. Is God Love? YES, without a doubt, he didn't have to die on that Cross to set People free, but he did it out of Love. But we can't forget he is also Just, and he will Judge sin rightly. God Bless, ArtistforChrist <><
  12. hello All, While we cannot lump all Chuches of Christ togather, there are some that stray from mainline teachings. Baptism is NOT necessary for Salvation because it is a WORK, Salvation is a free Gift to all who recieve it, apart from works, it is Only an Evidence of Salvation. Read in Acts were Peter went to the Gentiles and they recieved the Holy Spirit BEFORE being Baptised. Every Beleiver Should be baptised, but it is not a requirment for salvation. Using Intruments is no where in the NT forbidden, and in the OT clearly said to be used in worship, read The Pslams, Pslam 150 talks a lot about using intruments. Some CoCs say YOU MUST be part of thier Church, that they are the only TRUE church in any given town or city, and you must be disicipled and baptised in their Church, and if you leave you are an aposate. Those are the ones that are cults. Thanks all and God Bless, ArtistforChrist
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