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Elchingen

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About Elchingen

  • Birthday 08/04/1970

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    poetry, history, philosophy, upholstery, apologetics, NJ Devils hockey, Napoleonic era, prophecy, military history, cartography, alternatiove rock music like Nirvana, Monster Magnet, Radiohead, but above all Keith Green, politics observed, social science, the Left, my two daughters, my two sons, and my beautiful wife.

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  1. Elchingen

    Duplicity

    Trusting Jesus: That was awesome! Exactly in line with my initial post. The danger this false face has is as much to the believers as the non-believers. I hear intelligent and well-versed Christians repeat ideas relating to Christianity today that are completely ridiculous. I.E., that Barak Obama is the anti-christ. The well read among us know that whether there will even be an anti-christ is scriptually vague upon study. Don't get me wrong--someone who wants to believe so has enough circumstantial evidence to do so, but as for substance, the ideas are more or less supposition built upon one or two scriptures. Anyway, the danger is the influence, and because some of the more subversive teachings take just such a "leap", seizing upon a vaguery as a chance to create a fissure, and thus a divide, one in which they can nestle into with their teaching and stretch out into other areas with this "message". Now, new believers can be caught, just like the Judaisers did, and made to accept ideas "about" the Word that are taking root. Inspired by their own interpretation, they proceed to infect the Word with their perversion, making the Bible effectively say something it doesn't. However, even mature christians can be drawn in if they are not so discerning, and do not check their ego at the door. These false teachings are very clever, but listen to the message! How often is Jesus' name even mentioned? Does the teaching appeal to the heart or the self? Do the Bible verses given support the teaching? Do you feel it in your spirit? Yet this face is pervasive and growing. As for me, I wondered if there were many other Chrsitians who cringe at some what is said in Jesus' name on all of these christian networks(I get five or six with Directv--even the Mormons!). It wouldn't bother me as much if it wasn't so widespread. I feel that too many good christians are being deceived, and many unbelievers being kept from the truth. In Christ.
  2. Elchingen

    Duplicity

    I have a struggle with the face of Christianity. On one hand is the voice of the Spirit that echoes in the heart what the Word tells us--compassion, love, joy, peace, understanding, faith, and repentence. All I need do is open the word of God and I am at peace with what He tells me. It is the Trinity, the Gospel, the Bible, the promises and the pitfalls of any believers walk. There is the relationship that we each have individually with our Lord and it's own path and growth and issues and obstacles--these are all what make our faith unique, and each of these relationships fit together to form a community or a church or even a denomination. However, the other side is a bit different. This other side is the exact opposite. This side, seen on television, in books, and pounding-fist televangelists, is concerned with the relationship between the believer and the self-appointed "leaders". This side creates fear, consternation, anger and hatred. This side inspires selfishness and animosity to any who are not one of "us" but one of "them". This side has less love and peace and understanding and more in the way of division, of covetousness, of desire. Consider how the so-called "prophets" on television, who are always explaining Gods plan to us as if we were unable to read, use so much fear in their diatribes. Look out for the Muslims, look out for Korea, look out for Russia--or the immigrants, the homosexuals, the democrats, etc. And their line is never about peace. Rather they tell you what you will lose, what will be taken, what will happen "if". So much focus is on the US and it's supposed "role" in the world. We are told that we must protect our rights, our beliefs, our nation, and our way of life. What is one to believe? On one hand is our Lord and Savior, and on Him we have put our burdens, we have lain down our lives. On the other, we are told that all the worries we laid down at Christs feet must be picked up and clutched to our chests so we do not lose them. This duplicity is frightening, it is frequently un-Biblical, and often simply divisive. If we have nothing outside of Christ, what worry can their be for all the material things our lives have accrued. Even if we lose everything, won't we be exactly where we were when Christ first found us? And yet our airwaves are full of the voices that tell us always to fear, to hate, to fight. And for what? Which one of you by worrying can add evn one hour to your life? But better yet, Matthew 27:18-19 "All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me. Therefore go into the world and preach the gospel to all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I am with you always, even unto the end of the age." Two faces, and only one can be true.
  3. I wonder what exactly the allied forces are accomplishing with these occupations, and what end is to be met that would signal a "victory", such that any troops could be reasonably removed? If the "mission" is to establish a sound civilization that can support itself while resisting violent forces within it's own population, this becomes an impossible mission, one that will have US forces in Iraq indefinately. If the "mission" is to defeat the insurgents and prop up the artificial government that the US created in the hopes of securing a strong land base, oil reserves, and a military presense that will ensure US hegemony over the region, likewise this will require an extremely long and open-ended committment that borders on a literal annexation of Iraq on the lines of Puerto Rico, Guam, and a few others that would "unofficially" qualify--Phillipines, Haiti, Panama, etc. If the "mission" is to cap an initially successful military campaign with a well-meaning delivery of the complete government apparatus into the hands of Iraqis in as unconditional a form as possible, this could have been done yesterday. I ask--why so much money, so much military might, so much waste, and so much time for an objective that, as far as I can see, has never been clearly defined? The sad truth is that profiteers and mercenaries are getting the hard-earned tawxes of all Americans to line their own pockets, a cynical exhibition of captalism in it's ugliest form whereby two nations of people are made to suffer for the gratifications of an exclusive class of power-mongers--the oil people, the arms people, and the sinister likes of Haliburton and others who drain their own nation for sheer profit. It is a crime and a sin.
  4. No, I simply reflect a level of honesty that you are unwilling to face up to. I never said that I don't want anyone responding to my point of view. KatyAnn was the one complaining about responses, not me. All I said was, if she doesn't want to argue about it, then don't enter into threads that support Israel with her digs and potshots at Israel. If you were listening to Jesus, He would lead you to be support Israel, because He does. I will condede that you are being led by "A" spirit, though. Actually, I did not say the number 500. The article says they number at 5,000. Perhaps you should invest in glasses, or perhaps some classes in reading comprehension. That is faulty logic. So what you are saying is that of the 13,000,000 million Jews worldwide, 12,995,000 "hijacked" the Jewish faith? I am sorry, but no THINKING person would advance or believe such rubbish. No, not really. It is undeniable, historic fact that one of the chief Rabbis of Neturei Karta supported Arafat and served on the "cabinet" of a known international terrorist. They are not secretive about their desire to live in a "Palestine" absent of the state of Israel and they have chosen to ally themselves with known terrorist entities and stand in solidarity with the Palestinian agenda to destroy Israel. That is all fact, not "second hand" information. It is historic, documented fact that the Neturei Karta leadership attended and supported the Iranian president's holocaust denial seminar, which was really just a justification for his desire to see Israel wiped out. Again, they stood in solidarity with him in that endeavor. I brough the issue up since some people around here like to cite "anti-Zionist" Jews as justification for hating Israel. I am simply demonstrating that these anti-Zionist Jews are a fringe and should be seen authorities in matter of Jewish faith and practice particularly as it relates to Israel. They are pretty much disowned by Orthodox Judaism, but because they hate Israel, people like you are willing to over look that very important fact. Actually, defending Israel is not a drain at all. It is a passion. It's easy because the pro-Israel position is biblical. God is a Zionist. Jesus is a Zionist. The Holy Spirit is a Zionist. We Christian Zionists are in good Company. Like I said, I am here to defend Israel. If you don't like our position, you never have to come to these threads again, or you can even find an anti-Zionist Christian board. But as long as you are here, and you want to take an anti-Zionist position, I will be here to counter you. It all depends on you. It may be a drain on YOU to come over here and debate the issue, but I never get tired of defending and standing for Israel. I was made for this very thing. I am built for it. I take the Bible's position on who the Jewish people are, and to whom the Land of Israel belongs. I also take the biblical position that God has been in the process of restoring Israel to the Land. The conflict is the product of any oppression on Israel's part, but the intolerant Islamic ideology that is diametrically opposed to the Jews returning to their Land and forming God's nation on earth. God has unbreakable, eternal, blood covenant. The conflict rages because man, in an attempt to break God's covenant with Israel is only succeeding in breaking himself against it. Yeah, I have heard all of that before. It just amounts to backpeddling, and trying to save face on his part. He said what He said in unambiguous language no amount of linguistic gymnatics or revisionism will change that. His message was heard loud and clear by everyone in the world. You can spare me your lies and misinformation. 1. It's a bit extreme to accuse people of being possessed, Shiloh. Temper check, please. 2. I believe you said, in reference to the number 5,000, that it is probably one "zero" less. 3. I'm not defending the group, I'm telling you the impression I got from their website. I obviously don't take them to be representative of every Israelite in the world--nor did I infer such. I said they feel that the "identity", that is, "Nation of Israel", has been hijacked, not they are the sole representatives thereof. Some careful reading here. And as the article I linked to stated, and you obviously did not read it, THERE WAS NO HOLOCAUST DENIAL SEMINAR. To the contrary, the Iranian president is saying that the horror of the holocaust has been capitalized upon and used to the detriment of others.(A shame you didn't actually read it--which was the direct words the "news" took up and butchered-NOT back-peddling). 4. I have no issue with the Israeli nation, nor it's people. It is the policies of it's gov't I disagree with. But then, an open-minded person who can appreciate the world and it's multifaceted geopolitical diversity would readily understand and appreciate that--you are clearly not one of them. You are stuck in a trench throwing barbs at anyone who comes too close to your fox hole. You don't seen other than "A" spirit in me, and I see NONE of "THE" spirit in you. But I love you anyway. God bless. In Christ.
  5. It's a shame the world can't be rid of OUR totalitarianism. Don't worship false gods. It's God OR country, not God and country--a man cannot serve two masters! In Christ.
  6. shiloh: I gotta say, you are pretty hot-blooded. If I didn't know better, you seem to be annoyed that Katy-ann looked into it, rather than grateful that someone has your back on this--which she said she did. And when you get too flustered to respond with anything else, you resort to the typical character assasination. If you don't want people opposed to your views to comment, try not posting those comments in the first place. You know, an ounce of prevention.... I checked it out because I don't trust none but the Spirit and Jesus Christ to tell me what's up. Be offended if you like. This group, which by your estimate, Shiloh, numbers "500", sounds from your mouth like the SS in yamuka's marching to lay waste. However, they state clearly that they rely on the Torah throughout their declarations. They don't sound like blood-thirsty terrorists, anyway. They sound like faithful Israelites who feel that their identity has been hijacked. And then you go on to clarify that it's not what they SAY, but what they DO! But "what they DO", as far as you know, is according to a second hand, biased source, one that is interested in painting a bad picture of the group so as to undermine them. If they are so much on the fringe, why are you getting so upset over them? Or are you just fanning your own flames of distrust and hatred? The problem, as I see it, is that you folks get yourselves all worked up on these message boards over anything that will make your frantic fingers type faster. It is remarkable the level of time and attention that one must pay in order to be regularly involved in discussions like this. Moreover, it is a ceaseless drain on the spirit to be defending and parrying, and dodging your way through opposition, much of which you yourself set up by your rash and less-than-objective statements. Your statements about Iran's president, case in point, are an example of this--based on the news media's interpretation and translation. I've read the actual transcripts about the so-called "holocaust denial" and the "wipe out Israel" lines, and both were gratuitously tampered with in order for them to sound as out-landish as they do. The man has a regular blog. You should check it sometime. Just google-- Iran president blog. Check out: http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm Like I said, I check out everything if I can, but especially the really outlandish stuff. BTW, it would nice to read something that isn't so much fear-mongering out of the "pro-Zionist" crowd. In Christ.
  7. shilo: I guess to me, an unconditional love of Almighty God is enough. In Christ.
  8. shilo: I don't see much in the way conciliation here. You have your perspective and I have mine. Again, what is the point in trying to explain if you don't want to hear it? Maybe I'll see on another thread somewhere where we actually agree on something. Replacement theology, since it came up, probably bears some study. I think it is the idea that the Church replaces Israel in God's eyes. The proponents of this belief even consider Old Testament prophecies to be talkling about the Church and not Israel. That is why I disagree with the term. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Apostle Pauls' writing on this. That we who are in Christ who are not by blood the children of Abraham grafted into the vine and seen by God as children of Abraham on account of Christ. To me, this is a spiritual lineage. I don't think God abandoned Israel, but I do think that in His plan for mankind he has made those who are in Him one blood. This is not the view of replacement theologists. The RCC is famous for advancing that idea, but it obviously is not true. One would have to have remarkably little faith in Christ to think He had forgotten His chosen people, and even less faith to think that after Israel was given land and identity, that anyone could actually take it back. It is amazing to me that the pro-Israel crowds voice so much in the way of fear for Israel ever losing something that they say(at the same time) God gave back to them. If their faith is so strong, why are all of their arguments based up such grandiose fears? In Christ.
  9. nebula: Did you know that for decades the Arab states have tried to come to terms with Israel, accepting their existence, accepting their right to be a people and nation, and all the Arabs have asked was for Israel to leave the occupied territories? The first initiative was in 1971, not in 1979 as is generally believed. Most scholars take 1979 because that was the first agreement that Israel accepted, and that is because Israel refuses to leave the occupied territories. There have been countless offers from Syria, from Saudi Arabia, from Iraq, from nations outside of the region, but Israel either rejects the offers or so escalates a crisis as to drive the peace feelers away. Why else do you think there has been a FORTY YEAR stalemate? It's fine if she does not want to give up her land. I won't argue it. But to say the Arabs have been, and still are , trying to destroy Israel is a mistake. The rejectionism is on Israel, not the Arabs. It was, in fact, Henry Kissinger who said the US should agree to Israels policy of a "status quo", that is, a rejection of any peace agreement that meant the relinquishing of territory, which was, I think in 1971 or 1972. This rejectionism was a direct cause of the Yom Kippur War of 1973. That is fine by me, as I have stated. But you can not have your cake and eat it too. That is, you can not turn down peace agreements and then accuse the attempted peacemakers of trying to end your existence! Please, go and fact-check this. You may be suprised. As to what I would have Israel do--I said earlier. Either assimilate or liberate. But to assimilate, Israel does what it calls "compromising their unique demographic", and if they liberate, then "we abandon the hopes of a greater Israel". Again, they are trying to have both and gaining neither. I ask you, after forty years, what does Israel expect the occupied Palestinians to do? In Christ.
  10. shilo: The reference was to the self-righteousness of Jonah, not a point-to-point analogy of Israel or Palestine to Nineveh. Jonah saw only the bad of the Ninivites and not that, like him, they were human beings capapble of both right and wrong. What bothers me about the persepctive you folks have is that you don't see Palestinians as people. You see as dogs like some of Israel's most powerful people do. You and nebula throw out all kinds of "facts" about universal health care and what blessing Israel is to these occupied people, but why then are all of these Palestinian hospitals unable to get enough supplies, the people enough food while the IDF seals them off? They used to do so to cities and towns, and now they do it to the entire Gaza strip. Likewise, you wryly lament the fates of those who are NOT Hamas by saying, "Look what Hamas has done!" If there are terror suspects, the IDF has the military power to move in and capture them. Instead, they lay waste. BTW, replacement theology, which you accuse me of adhering to, says that Israel has no place in Gods plans after Christ. You should know from reading the entirety of the post you are quoting from that I don't accept that belief. This kind of speaking-out-both-sides-of-your-mouth form of "discussion" is why you tend to be a bit frustrating. As I said earlier, you guys ignore my valid points completely and make a case out of some absurdity. Like replacement theology. C'mon, already, nobody who reads their Bible can honestly swallow that one! Also, when it comes to Israeli soldiers dragging children over barbed wire or breaking their limbs in interrogations, or when world health officials cringe at the brutality done to Palestinian children by IDF soldiers on a regular basis(now this is if you read these things, and there are regular reports, mind you), I don't think you can technically blame the Intifada. Likewise, as you praise the blessings Israel has bestowed on their captors, remember the random searches in which soldiers enter a house, drag anything movable into the center of it(all this while the family is held at gunpoint), take turns peeing on the pile of belongings they have made, and then exit when they haven't found any "contraband". In closing, I never called for the destruction of Israel EVER in any post I've made. You are putting words in my mouth. I believe it's called a strawman argument, isn't it? It's neither something I wish, nor something I ever think would happen. And I am Jewish by association, brother. Just ask Paul. In Christ.
  11. Katyann, Inglesio: I more or less agree that the Spirit that is Christs foundation for us as His Body in the world is one that shines with the fruit of the Spirit--love, joy, peace, mercy, compassion, etc. Idealistic? Of course! Unrealistic? Not at all. I can not in Christian conscience salute the flag, join the army, allow any child of mine to join the army, or support either war or terror from any one side or the other. HOWEVER, I can have an opinion on such things that is based on the fruit of the spirit. I can put myself in anothers place and empathize. In fact, it has taken me years to realize that this empathy, which seems to pretty strong from what others say, is a gift from God, allowing me to expand in compassion and understanding for others. This is not to say there aren't those who really rile me up--Bill O'Reilly comes to mind--but that the Lord has always instilled in me the need to identify with anothers plight and feel their situation. Isn't this what He has done for me, after all? It is not only the Palestinians who suffer. It would be wrong to not look beyond the front and know there are the childless of Israel, the orphaned, the maimed, and what was their crime? Being born in Tel Aviv, or Ashkelon, or Jerusalem? They have no more idea at a given age what the violence around them means. As to covenants, I have to side with those who side against me on this issue and say, yes, the Abrahamic Covenant lasts as long as there is a remnant, as ever was the case. To think otherwise would be to believe that once Christ had died for all, He just gave up on His people. We know that isn't the case. In fact, I am a Jew, aren't I? grafted into the vine by the free gift of God of eternal life? Anyone who calls himself or herself a Christian is calling themselves an Israelite, and justly so! This is the royal family we have been born again into! YET for this very reason I stand opposed to the policies I have decried here. Because God is the same yesterday, today, and always, and His love was as much for Samaritans, Edomites, Cushites, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, and Persians in those days as it is for everyone today. How many times were His prophets sent to prophecy to foreign countries? And among them was Jonah. Shilo and nebula, read Jonah, many times over. Understand the mistake Jonah made. He was waiting for destruction, waiting for God to wipe out Ninevah, to destroy these people that Jonah felt God SHOULD have destroyed. But God didn't. God forgave them. And there sat Jonah, unable to understand that he had allowed his own self-righteousness--one of the worst sins for our spirits--to blind hijm to the comapassion and mercy of Almighty God. How many people have we waited for God to destroy? The Germans? The Italians? The Russians! The Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the Iranians, the Iraqis, and of course, today, one is especially singled out for the fires of Gods judgement if they are Muslim. But who among us even understands Islam? There are Muslims all over the world working for a few bucks to pay their bills and feed their children just like the rest of us. We have so much more in common with those we are so easily led to despise--it's frightening! But we have the light. WE HAVE IT! We aren't waiting and watching and hoping , except for that final day, but He is in us! He is with us NOW! We have so much we can give. And instead we find every reasons to defend what we have, to protect what is not ours, and to be selfish with the things that are only ours on account of our father. This is as much peace and prosperity and security as it is air, water, and food. It's all His, isn't it? But Israel, though it be a people, is still a nation and a government. The prophets spoke against her then in her errors. They speak against her now. In Christ.
  12. shiloh, david: I should make it clear that I do not arbitrarily single out Israel for any special condemnation. They are, to me, following an example set by many other countries, and their "crimes", as I see them, pale in significance to those of other "great powers". What then is my point? That violence begets violence, yes, but that we who are in Christ should see beyond these things. I am wrong, I feel, to support Israel simply because it appears to be the dictates of my faith. I do not see that it is. Christ tells me to love the Lord my God with all my strength, all my heart, and all my mind, to love my neighbor as myself, and to go into the world and preach the gospel. It is not mine to support Israel any more or less than any country on the planet--yet I am called by God to have love for every human being on the planet. I do as I feel Christ would do--to speak for the unspoken for, to support the oppressed, the downtrodden, the abused. The thinking of far right and even near-right Christianity denounces all of this. In place of love there is now "freedom". Tell me, where did Christ ever exhort us to defend and secure our freedom? Where did he ever encourage us to form a Christian state and defend it so that we might have the luxury of raising our children in a safe haven? When did Almighty God declare that a constitution and an army willing to defend it were as precious as the blood of Christ? Yet Christianity cringes at anything remotely "leftist"--labor unions, environmentalism, taxes on the rich and the conglomerates. We look the other way while impoverished Indonesian children work 12-14 hour days making $200 pairs of Nike sneakers that Christian America can buy their children. We ignore the obvious poverty and oppression of the masses of Latin America's people, yet when they dare come here for solely survival, we act as if the spawn of hell has gate-crashed our precious garden of eden. We, as a christian nation, found gay marraige to be so much more of a moral weight on our conscience than the bombing of civilians in Iraq that we re-elected the leader of the bombing campaign. What does this say to the world about Christians? What does it say about America? While better than 70% of the world lives in starvation and misery, America is broadcasting their obesity problem. Can you imagine the insult this is? Rich and poor, free and slave, man and woman, Jew and Gentile; all are equal in the blood of Christ. And that blood says LOve above all else. Out of love for Israel, I criticize them--they have so much to lose! And yet they still do not even know aht it is they have, do they? Out of love I speak for the Palestinians, because oppression is never excusable under any circumstance. Nor is violence excusable under any circumstance, and I pray for them on account of that. But I pray for all, and I love for all, regardless of race, religion, sex, nationality, etc. I know I have never been occupied, nor bombed, but by doing unto others as I would have them do for me, I pray and I speak. In Christ.
  13. Mazra: Another facet here you are overlooking is that the woman is referred to not only as a prostitute, but an adulteress. To be an adulteress, she must be unfaithful, and be encouraging others in unfaithfulness....to whom? The more I think about it, the more it seems to indicate Rome--that is, if one were in the 1st century. Rome has a navigable river through which was used to bring in grain--shipping by sea was far cheaper than by land. Also, the chain of authority went from the Roman Emporer to the Pope--that is, the first pope of Rome was given authority by the emporer. The office of the pope then proceeded, over the years, to pass on that authority to kings over kingdoms--take CVharlemegn, the first Holy Roman Emporer. That authority then descended down to princes, dukes, barons, and the like, creating Europe as it was to be known. Even today much of the world was either conquered, colonized, or subject to onenation or another who owed their existence to the blessing of authority given by the pope. I don't think NYC can come anywhere near claiming such a feat--nor does NYC come anywhere near the millions of murdered faithful who dared love our Lord and Savior more than an old man in gowns and a pointy hat. Another point to consider: the UN does not qualify because it is really ruled by the Security Council, the five nations who were the victors of WWII(interesting the stalemate of things since then, eh?) Any one Security Council member can veto or abstain on any measure and the measure will not pass. Even the General Assembly is little more than a mouthpiece for disgruntled states. Do you really think the five most powerful nations in the world would so easily relinquish their clout? Yet the Vatican is counted among UN nations. There are few that are not, among them Taiwan--but that, as they say, is another story! In Christ.
  14. Shiloh: There is then as much of a redusal of Palestinians to accept Israel as vice-versa. My point is that the party holding power, that being Israel, is the one with the initiative. As to the events of 1948, recall that Palestinian rejection of the proposed "settlement" was due to the miniscule territory they were expected to agree to be given. Why should they have accepted it? Recall that there were originally three zones proposed--the Israel, the Palestinian and the buffer zone. Israel jumped the date for the mandate by one day and seized as much as they could, in the process driving by gunpoint thousands of Palestinians from their homes. This is what caused the refugee problem. The remaining areas were taken by Jordan and Egypt respectively(West Bank and Gaza) and those territories became the de facto zones where 1.5 million Arabs were sequestered after 1967 when Israel occupied them. I am not so much admonishing Israel as drawing you folks to the truth about the situation. Even today, every Palestinian that is alive is alive at the whim of the IDF. If the situation were not to savage, why would so many Israel soldiers be refusing to serve in the occupied territories? Read their testimonies as to why and you may understand some of these long-standing greivances those people have. It is well and good to build schools and sewer systems, but I must point out, as you well know, that Israel feels as much of a right to bulldoze any structure they see-as they have demonstrated. There is black on both sides. The issues are much more than a he said/she said of violated deals. Furthermore, it is primarily the government and the security forces I see as having committed serious crimes on the part of Israel, and much much less the people. An open and honest look at all of the facts would reveal the truth of the matter, that although both sides say peace while making war, only one side stands so much more vastly powerful than the other. After all, it is the Palestinians who are the oppressed and not the Israelis. Likewise, to call Israel a "blessing" to the Palestinians is unimaginable. It is tantamount to calling the white South Africans a blessing to their indigenous subjects prior to the freeing of South Africa. In Christ.
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