wingnut-

You make two contrdictory assumptions. Because God chooses whom He will save and whom He leaves alone does not mean that man has no say in the matter. I understand that you do not understand predestination. Is predestination referred to in the bible? It is in 4 verses so you need to study and see what the bible says about it and why it is there. Because we choose does not preclude predestination. Thanks, but I have read it, many times, and I simply disagree with your position. I am curious as to which 4 verses you are referring to, and logically speaking, when one has options and makes a choice, it doesn't add up to predestination by my definition. Perhaps your definition differs from my own. If you tell me what specifically you disagree with then I might be able to give you an answer. Actually the greek word is used 6 times. Ro 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: The same word is translated differently here. Ac 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: And in Rom. 8:29 What does the word "foreknow" mean? If it only means congition then how is it that Jesus "never knew" those in Matt.7:23. I disagree with predestination is what i disagree with, and the reason for this is because it eliminates grace. It also undermines God's love in my opinion, because if it were true, then it would basically be saying, most of you I am creating to destroy and send to eternal damnation, but a few of you I will reward with eternal life. Thank you for posting the verses you were referring to, but I require no further assistance, and have no interest in debating this topic because we will simply never agree. I see no point in countering with scripture that refutes your claim, because following this thread I have seen that many already have, and there is nothing new to really add. God bless you, and again, thanks for the reply.

A delightful young man, he would probably make a better mayor for the city than what we currently have lol.

Hey herbie, I don't like the sounds of it myself, and think that I would take issue with that. It could be a catholic tie, perhaps something in the pastor's upbringing, but it does sound more like a new age thing to me also, a bit unsettling.

Sometimes God answers our prayers with a yes, sometimes with a no, and sometimes He says wait.

Forgiveness is like a raw diamond in the ground, its beauty is not revealed until it is processed and polished. A diamond is one of the strongest natural elements yet in its raw state goes unnoticed. Forgiveness allows us to survive what would seek to overwhelm us as it returns love for hate, love for anger, love for bitterness and it breaks down unseen barriors. John O Well said, very nice post.

I had never even heard of chick fil a before all of this started, so perhaps this ceo isn't so dumb after all. We don't have them here, so eating there is not an option, but it seems to me that at the very least, people are talking about his company lol.

See the boy's original article, as well as the opposing view that was included with it. I read it and saw nothing that I would describe as even remotely akin to "bullying" and/or "disrespect." But then, we now live in a society where anyone who does not openly embrace, support, and even champion gay/homosexual causes is labeled a bigot and far worse. I am no fan of frivolous lawsuits and am not really sure if this situation warrants one or not, but at the very least, the school system should have to issue an apology to the boy for their behavior. I'd be amazed if that actually happened, however. See the boy's original article, as well as the opposing view that was included with it. I read it and saw nothing that I would describe as even remotely akin to "bullying" and/or "disrespect." But then, we now live in a society where anyone who does not openly embrace, support, and even champion gay/homosexual causes is labeled a bigot and far worse. I am no fan of frivolous lawsuits and am not really sure if this situation warrants one or not, but at the very least, the school system should have to issue an apology to the boy for their behavior. I'd be amazed if that actually happened, however. We live in a fallen world which no longer embraces the truth, but mocks it instead. When you try to offer hope to it, you are insulted and turned into a villain, and heaven forbid we introduce consequence into the closed off world of the entitlement era.

Such a shame, and not far off for us I'm afraid. I just recently had an experience along this lines at work, although it did not involve government intervention.

There are compelling arguments to both sides, but does it really matter who spiritual babylon is? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it does not change what christians should be doing, which is spreading the gospel. On the matter of charity, there is no other country that comes close to being as giving as the United States in number, but at the same time, our population is larger than most. Are there still Christians in america? Obviously there are a bunch of them right here on this forum, or in the chat room, and that is but a small fraction of christians in this nation. Anyway, that is my two cents worth.

You make two contrdictory assumptions. Because God chooses whom He will save and whom He leaves alone does not mean that man has no say in the matter. I understand that you do not understand predestination. Is predestination referred to in the bible? It is in 4 verses so you need to study and see what the bible says about it and why it is there. Because we choose does not preclude predestination. Thanks, but I have read it, many times, and I simply disagree with your position. I am curious as to which 4 verses you are referring to, and logically speaking, when one has options and makes a choice, it doesn't add up to predestination by my definition. Perhaps your definition differs from my own.

If salvation were assigned by God, and man has no say regarding it, then why bother with life as we know it? Pre-destination makes absolutely no sense to me, if God wanted robots then He would have just made it so. I am not good with chapter and verse recollection, but doesn't it say somewhere in Joshua "Choose you this day whom ye will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."? Doesn't sound to me like Joshua believed in pre-destination.

This entire premise is based on an assumption you are making, and is entirely speculation. There is no evidence that the Syrians are working with the Russians, or that they have any intention of handing over their stockpiles of chemicals, so basically, it is just fluff.

If a pastor, who is supposed to be a leader, does not have the courage to stand up to his congregation in defense of what is right, then i would say he has missed his calling. If he won't do the right thing over this, how easily will he conform when the government eventually imposes gay marriages? If this were my church, i would have to say it was time to find a new one.

I think the answer is not all that complicated, God did not cause any of this, mankind did. These things that are happening in the world are a result of sin, which mankind brought upon itself. In spite of our wickedness, God still loved us enough to provide a way out, by sending us His only Son, who laid His life down for our sins, all of them. That is how much God loves us, what you see in the world is a consequence for our actions or inactions. In short, God is good, we are sinful, and this life we are given is precious, so don't waste it, use it to praise the one who loved you enough to lay down His life.

good question iryssa, i am not real savvy when it comes to this picture thing so i really don't know

okay angel, thanks for the advice hey angel, where is this control panel option located? It is the link below "who's online" that says my controls. Then look under the left index and click on change personal photo. and that is how I finally was able to change mine :( thanks angel, i did try that though and still no luck....don't know what to think

okay angel, thanks for the advice hey angel, where is this control panel option located?

okay angel, thanks for the advice

thank you traveller, i will check that out and make sure

maybe you're so good looking that you broke the server esther!!!!! how did you know

not sure if anyone else is having a problem or not, but since the switch over i tried to change the picture on my profile. i thought perhaps the new one i was putting in was too much, but when i went back to the one that has been on there, it will not allow that one either. any advice or suggestions are welcome.

I enjoyed that very much andy, good job. You are such a blessing to us all.

i am going through a divorce of my own, so certainly relate to all who have to deal with this subject. this is the sixth time in 11 years that my wife has threatened, but this time she filed as of april, and for the first time, i made no attempt to talk her out of it. i did of course suggest marital counseling again, as i have for the last 11 years, but she is bitterly opposed to that, and because of that, i cannot continue to go through this every other year. we have a 12 year old daughter who is having a difficult time with this, for me that is the hardest part. she is the reason that i tried so hard to make this work, but have come to realize that the homelife provided is more harmful than good. i do not want her to grow up thinking that the way her mother treats me is acceptable for any wife. it sets a poor example, and makes me shudder to think of how this could affect her future happiness if she marries someday. i have tolerated verbal abuse for the duration of the marriage, which has intensified over the years, and lately has turned to physical abuse as well. mostly it comes in the form of objects being hurled at me, but on several occasions she has also punched me, and often pushes me as well. i know this may seem silly for a man to complain about, because as long as i am aware, she cannot actually hurt me. but i do fear what she might do when i am sleeping, which has only added to an already existing problem with insomnia. i have slept on the couch since christmas of 2007, and only have 3 more months before the divorce will finally be settled and i can begin to rebuild my life. i ask for any prayers that can be given, not only for my daughter and wife, but also for myself. thank you all for your love and support, and i will be praying for you and yours as well. God bless.

aloha rebekah, my understanding is that not all of us are on the new server yet. so anyone on the old trying to pm someone on the new is not getting through. i don't know if that means some of these pm's are lost forever, or if they will come through once we are all on the new server. i hope you get them and that i have been of some help. God bless

i feel for you in this tough situation. i do have a friend that is homosexual as well, and as long as she respects my feelings on the matter, i do not push my beliefs that have been made clear in the past. if the topic comes up it is her doing, and in those instances i remind her of the truth. the one thing i am not sure of about your situation is whether your friends are openly acting out this sin in front of you, as far as public displays of affection and the like. because to me this opens the door for discussion, because i will not sit back and watch this, the same as i am about any other type of open sin i see from any of my friends. perhaps my attitude is regarded as wrong by some, but i feel that if we turn our backs on those who need to open their eyes most, who then will reach them. at least i can set some kind of example and still try to open her eyes, so my suggestion would be to do the same whenever possible.