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glintofsteel

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  1. I would like to return to the theme of 'What is the Church'. As pointed out, it is the living organism of Christ's body himself. But I want to give my (scriptural) veiwpoint, contrasting the mode and function of what we deem the Church to be in mainstream Christianity today. The church at Ephesus or Philippi in Pauls day, was a band of believers who met in homes primarily. It was unstructured with the 'orderly' pews facing one man behind a pulpit. This model alone is keeping the Church from being the Church. Church is not a sermon, a teaching or exhortation or tongues. It is the body OF CHRIST. Not in mental assent, but in the spiritual realm..literally. These teachings, exhortations etc. arise as the govenor of the Body, wills. Namely, the Holy Spirit. To back-track, lets start with the first words the Christ uttered in begining his ministry. He began preaching by saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand'. He would later say, 'The kingdom of God comes not to be observed, neither shall they say, lo here, or lo there, but THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU'. And, 'Seek you first the kingdom of God'... I personnally do not see a division between what the kingdom of God is, and the body of Christ. The word repent carries the connotation of, turn around, change your thinking, some others perhaps. But in light of the above mentioned verses, it means for me..turn within..where his kingdom is to be found. In John chapter 3 we find Jesus distinguishing, 'that which is born of the spirit is spirit, that which is born of the flesh is flesh'. Soon followed by the divine utterance of..'The wind blows as it wishes, you cannot tell where it comes from, or where it is going...but YOU HEAR THE SOUND thereof, so is everyone born of the spirit. How many gatherings of believers listen for the sound? For the leading of his spirit? The Holy Spirit desires to move amongst his bodily members, is He given permission in your Church? When looking back to discern the birth of flesh from spirit, what do we see? Under the persecution of the Roman Empire, these christian are functioning under an unction that is 'turning the world upside down' as spoken of in the book of acts. The more the persecution, the more vigilant the spread of Christ. It is now out of control. So what does the Empire decide to do? They make Christianity their national religion. (If you can't beat em, join em) So in comes the hearlding of the Roman Catholic papacy. Christainity has just crossed over from being a vital working power under the leadership of the Holy Spirit (as a living ogranism) to a set format of many pews and a pope. A man made (flesh) organization. Can anyone say ichabod? The spirit of God has just left the building. Man is in charge now. Well whoopty do, along comes Martin Luther and the nailing of his thesis and the reformation kicked-in. (I understand this was a big deal back in those days, but most of us can read nowadays..can we protrude eye-sockets and insert brain cells now?) What Luther brought to the table, was change to understand certain scripture. That the just shall live by faith, and you didn't need to confess your sins to a 'church father' and such. But he took the structure with him. No change there..even to this present day. Folks, I hate to break it to you, but there is only one shepherd and one sheep-fold and I can garauntee you, your pastor is not the shepherd. What I am trying to break the tradition of men concerning 'Church' because our emphasis on 'the one on many' is taking away from 'the many on one'. And that One, in inward engagement (fellowship) as John put it in his first epistle, 'Come fellowship with us, for truly our fellowship (divine exchange) is with the father and his son Jesus Christ'. All our attention focus on one mans taken in outwardness, is restricting the in-flow of the promptings of the Holy Spirit, from welling up within. From the kingdom God. Isaiah put it this way, 'My ways are not your ways, neither are my thoughts your thoughts, for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher then yours, says the Lord'. In Hebs. 3 I think, we read, ' They do always err in heart and have not known my ways'. Consider for a moment, the heavens (starry skies) are millions of light years above us..do we think we know his ways? They are revealed to us by his spirit, but how skillful do we walk inwardly behold him by faith? As Paul said, 'that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith'. The ways of God work from the inside out, not the outside in. This finds validity only among the unsaved. The living organism of Jesus Christ, finds validity by way of minding the fact that Christ has come an taken up inward residence within us. When the world about us is closed off and we come to a profound realization of the Christ of glory within, can we say we are connecting with his body. The rest is silly fluff of our own making. An outward form that is denying the power. 'The kingdom of God, is not in word, but in power' Paul said.
  2. Adstar, first off, I missed a word in something you said to begin with, which changes the whole mode of your thought. My bad. Correction is needed on my end. I missed the word 'not' , which completely flips your meaning. As for my 'jargon', hey thats me and my interpretive understanding of the Word. As for as whether the body of Christ is groping, would be subject to ones perspective also. I can see we are of very different orientations. Thanks for the comebacks. By the way, the scripture reference was hebrews 1:2 maybe 3.
  3. Adstar, Well taken, but I don't think it is wrong to speculate, or inquire in his temple. To think this is where my faith and salvation lays, is kinda condescending, don't ya think? No offense taken, everyone is entitled by free-will. Can we just loosen up a bit? I think it's fun to speculate nothing more. And I don't think God is none to uptight about it. We know from scripture of prophetic passages through which our history (in the making) must travel. This I find interesting, and often the only supplemation we can go on, is to speculate. Unless you got a sure Word of Revelation. Would you think there is such a thing as God given impressions? We know of the unction of the holy one, but do we, as flawed vessels always get it right? If we do, because the spirit of truth, is not the spirit of error; then why so many variables of perspectives over the same book? By the way, I don't nessecarily believe the spirit of truth is dictated by scriptural correctness, as by the spirit of truth. Meaning, one person could have the words right, but be off spiritually..like a pharisee. Another could be scripturally errant and be spiritually true. Of course the best of both worlds is what we should strive for. Anyway, it seems to me that the body of Christ is at a sort of crossroads or impass. Meaning, groping just a bit, partly shadowed, if you will, for discernment on what's coming down the prophetic pike next. I would hope a more definitive comprehension in regards to the indwelling Christ. I've heard 94 to 99 percent of all material matter is basically comprised of empty space, or what phyiscists labeled 'dark matter' cause they don't understand it. It's like they discovered the unconscious mind of material matter, as one scientist put it. This is their findings at the sub-atomic levels. Hebrews tells us, that all things are upheld by the word of his power. Faith itself, is a substance of a spiritual flavor. This 'faith substance' may also be that logos power, by which all things are basically comprised of? It seems to me, that: Christ, faith, love, spirit, heart (as in the core or center) kingdom of God, the Word of God, the treasure we have in earthen vessels, the pearl of great price, and all through the word, concerning our fellowship with God, runs through the divine center of our being. I can spout many scriptures such as, 'that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith' or 'examine yourselves whether you be in the faith, know you not your own selves, how that Christ lives within you, except you be reprobates?' I know this sounds a bit off your original post theme, but suppose that scientific data is an outward reflection of what is coming on a spiritual plane? We don't follow the signs of the times, but discern them. Could it be that to the degree or measure we come to know Christ inwardly, it will be meted back to us in the way of knowing his ways of glory (fiery spiritual substance) by which all will one day be tried, to see what sort it is? I am of a persuasion that God works his works from the inside out. Peace
  4. Adstar, interesting indeed! I wonder if this plays into the global warming factor? First they say it's because of the harvesting of the amazon rain forest and now population explosion. Also, how you equated the 4th angel into this scientific scenario. Fire is definitely a key element to be played out in the end times, but I'm not exactly persuaded we are so close, as many figure this generation to be the last, before the return of Christ. Could be if rapidity excellerates extensively. But once again, in linking what science can depict on the bases of 'natural causes' to what may be backed by spiritual beings (angels) is of interest to me. When I think about it..all of the natural elements (however cursed) came out of the Great Original -God- So as to say, that even in their primal 'blessed state' have something of the makings of God himself about them? I know when we start talking earth, air water and fire, often a pagan connotation incurrs. But this lesser form of serving the creature or creation, rather than the one source who created all, is to form other gods before the God of all. Perhaps God in his sovereignity, pervades throughout all as hinted at in Colossians 1:16? I don't mean to be reading into things that are not there, but my inquistive nature itself may be a micro-faction of God looking to redeem himself back to a risen state from which we have fallen?
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