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Found 7 results

  1. Jesus said that days of great tribulation would begin after the abomination. This is good information, but many people disagree on where in Revelation the abomination event will take place. Pre-wrathers insist the days of tribulation are before the 6th seal. They are in error. We are going to examine where in Revelation those days of great tribulation will come. Some people call the last half of the week, "great tribulation." I don't think God ever put that title on the last half of the week. It is therefore in error. God is going to shorten the days of great tribulation but the week will continue on to its 1260 day fulfillment. Jesus said that when those in Judea SEE the abomination event, they are to flee - instantly! There will be no time to get a coat or hat or food. Where then do we find the fleeing begin? It is in 12:6. We can then pinpoint the timing of verse 12:6 to a second or two after the abomination. We must account for some reaction time. If we back up verse by verse from 12:6 looking for a major event such as a trumpet judgment, we come to the 7th trumpet. I am convinced that 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and declares he is God - the God of the Jews. We have now delineated where the abomination is in Revelation. If we read down in chapter 12, we see that the Dragon will go first after those who have fled, and in failing there will begin to go after the remnant of the seed of the woman, Israel, who love Jesus. This would be the remnant of the church: only a remnant because the rapture took out the main load before the 7th seal started the week. The devil or Dragon has to use people to do his work. To go after anyone he will need people. I think it is clear that the Dragon will possess the man of sin who will then become the Beast. John sees the Beast rise up in chapter 13. the Beast will have armies, so now the Dragon will have people to do is bidding. Jesus said that those days of GT (great tribulation) will be worse than any other time on earth, past, present or future. What is it that will make these days so bad? John tells us in Rev. 13: the Beast and False Prophet will erect an image and force all to bow down and worship this image. He will repeat what Nebuchadnezzar did. Those that refuse to bow will lose their head. Next, these two Beasts will create a mark. NO one will be able to buy or sell without the mark. While this is going on, the Two Witnesses will stop the rain. Remember that one of the trumpet judgments turned 1/3 of all fresh water into blood. Another trumpet judgment I believe will be Nuclear war, and much of the fresh water will be radiated and undrinkable. In other words, it is highly likely that water will become the most precious commodity. Fresh drinking water will only be in stores, and to get it, one must have the Mark. God is going to warn every human before the mark is enforced that to take the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. Every human is going to know this. Therefore GREAT PRESSURE is going to be put on people to take the mark. Thirst can be a very powerful motivator. Where then in Revelation will be those days of GT that Jesus spoke of that will be worse than any other time in history? Certainly those days must be AFTER God sends His warning, found in Rev. 14. In fact, John shows us the first beheaded people BEGIN to show up in heaven in chapter 15. Therefore, scripturally, the days of GT will not begin until AFTER chapter 14 in Revelation. No one know how long into the second half of the week this will be, but my guess is, not far. It will take some time to erect an image and some time to create and enforce the mark. No one knows if this will be world wide. I suspect it will be. It is written that the Beast deceives the whole world. it is written that Satan extends his authority to the whole word. God will wait until the wrath of Satan has reached its peak, in the beheading of all those who refuse to bow and refuse the mark. Then God will begin to pour out the vials of His wrath to SHORTEN those days of GT. One the vials are poured out, no one is going to be out hunting down anyone. The armies of the Beast will be sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain. Darkness will cover the earth. Day after day of Darkness while everyone is scared spit-less of what is coming next. Finally the 1260th day will come and the 7th vial will be poured out, ending the 70th week. I believe it will be at this 7th trumpet that God will raise the Old Testament saints - including those before the flood. This is going to cause the world's worst earthquake ever, as seen at the 7th vial. The cities of the nations will fall. The days of GT will have ended, but Jesus remains in heaven. The events of Rev. 17 & 18 take place, the marriage and supper will take place, and finally Jesus will descend to earth with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. The 42 months of authority for the Beast is up. Jesus will capture both the Beast and the False Prophet and cast them into the lake of fire.
  2. Mal. 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Rom 15:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" It is after the sixty-ninth week that Messiah is cut off. That fact definitely places it in the seventieth week—that last remaining week of the prophecy. It was during this week that Christ did confirm His covenant with many according to Matt. 26:26-28. On this solemn occasion Christ instituted the most sacred of Christian ordinances, the Lord's Supper, saying, "This is My blood of THE NEW TESTAMENT (literally covenant), which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins." Conclusive Proof Links Christ With the Covenant. The death of Christ very definitely instituted the New and Everlasting Covenant, and Christ emphatically confirmed that covenant with many during the three and a half years of His ministry on earth. Even the words of Daniel are almost identical with those of Matthew—"He shall confirm the covenant with many"—"this is My blood of the New Testament which is shed for many." The evidence is very conclusive. There are 281 references to "covenant" in the Scriptures according to Young's Analytical Concordance. Not one of these references in any way introduces the idea of a covenant between the Jews and the Anti-Christ. 'There is not a hint anywhere that such a covenant is suggested, intended, proposed or prophesied at any time. Concerning the covenant between the believers and the Messiah there are many scores of such references. They are found in almost every book in the Bible. The reason is because when the Jews broke the Old Covenant, (see Jer. 31:31-33) then God purposed to make a new and everlasting covenant with His people. Consequently all the prophets refer to it and Daniel foretold that it would be ratified in the 70th week of his prophecy. cp. Heb. 8:7-10. Even more convincing is the testimony supplied by the Hebrew word for Covenant used in the phrase, "He shall confirm the covenant." The word for covenant is "Bereeth" according to the Pulpit Commentary ; it is spelled "berith" in Young's Analytical Concordance. In the Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 29, p. 275, a lengthy exposition points out that "Bereeth" is only used in connection with a Divine Covenant. It is never used to designate a "league" with any other power or force but is always reserved to describe a covenant between God and man. For that reason the covenant cannot apply to anyone except the Messiah. It cannot possibly describe a covenant with the Anti-Christ or any political group involving apostate Jews. It is further explained that when the covenant is confirmed the sacrifice and oblation ceases. The Massoretic text renders it : "And one week shall confirm a covenant to many, and in the middle of the week MY sacrifice and offering shall be taken away." The use of the pronoun "my" removes all doubt concerning what sacrifice and oblation is meant. It was the Mosaic sacrifices which God ordained and honored until the death of Christ. That is the only sacrifice God could call "MY" sacrifice. The death of Christ on Calvary DID institute the New and everlasting covenant and Christ Himself DID confirm that covenant with many during His earthly ministry. When Christ died on the cross the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, thus signifying that the old sacrifices and oblations had ceased to have any spiritual or efficacious value. At the best they were but a shadow of good things to come, (Heb. 10:1), and when Christ died on the cross the "better covenant was established." Heb. 8:6. The old covenant with its sacrifices and oblations became null and void immediately Christ died, and in that sense He caused them to cease. God Cannot Fail. It should be noted finally that the angel Gabriel made the announcement to Daniel. The Bible only mentions him on three occasions. He came to Daniel at the start of the 70 weeks and then he came to Zacharias and Mary to announce the birth of John the Baptist and the Messiah as the time of fulfillment drew near. Note also that the only date mentioned in the New Testament is found in Luke 3:1, 2, telling of the ruling hierarchy in both Jewish and Gentile states at that time, and signifying an impending event that would affect both Jews and Gentiles, i.e. the whole world. It was the year that Jesus was baptised; the year He was manifested to His people. It was the year He began to fulfill the promises made to the fathers ; the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy (the Jubilee year). Is it any wonder that the first evangels began their message by preaching "The Kingdom of God, saying the time is fulfilled?" What time was fulfilled ? There was only one time to be fulfilled and that was the prophecy of Daniel. Just as Daniel "understood by books the number of years whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah," Dan. 9 :2, and therefore knew the time had come for the Jews to return to Jerusalem, SO John the Baptist and Christ knew that the time specified by the angel Gabriel had been fulfilled. This set time was so certain and so determined by God that when Jesus was first attacked by His enemies He said, "My time is not yet come, " John 7:6, but in John 13 :1 it says, "Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew His HOUR WAS COME." (Compare John 2 :4 ; 7 :30 ; 8 :20 ; 12 :23 ; and 17 :1)
  3. Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come. Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Question: are these verses telling us of ONE TIME these signs will be seen, as a sign for ONE EVENT? Or are these verses telling us of TWO DIFFERENT signs for TWO DIFFERENT events? There are more: Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
  4. I hope all the participants here know, Revelation is written in an order. Since John numbered so many things for sequencing, why would anyone suppose it is OUT of order? As I read it, Jesus begins this book right where John was at the time, around 95 AD. In chapter 21, we see John is beyond the thousand year reign of Christ, so far far into our future today. It just makes sense then that somewhere between chapters 1 and chapters 21, is where the church is TODAY. I hope then that all the writers here will show us where they perceive the church is today in the book of Revelation. I am not interested in preterist thought - only those that believe much of Revelation is still future need answer. Next, I would like to see where everyone places the start of the Day of the Lord, and WHY. Next, where do people see the start of the 70th week and why. Finally, where do people see the exact midpoint, and why. Since Revelation already HAS an order, that is a chronology, I will not change it. I think the Holy Spirit knew and knows the sequence of events that is coming. Therefore, I believe any theory that must rearrange Revelation to work will immediately be suspect and in the end will be proven wrong. Further, I am convinced that it is the 70th week that is INSIDE the seals scroll, and that all 7 seals must be opened before the 70th week can begin. I see the 70th week then beginning with the 7th seal that allows the book to be opened. therefore the trumpets will come in the first half of the week. With that said, John TELLS US where the Day of the Lord, or the Day of His wrath begins: right at the 6th seal. Next, I see the 70th week beginning right at the 7th seal, and I see the midpoint right at the 7th trumpet. I see the week end at the 7th vial. therefore the entire week is marked by 7's. I find it amusing that people imagine they can move events around (rearranging) revelation to fit a theory. I think it would be far wiser to create a theory from the book AS WRITTEN. I find such a theory fits all end times scriptures.
  5. You will often see a reference to a 70th week at the end of time "inserted" into Revelation, or Matt 24, or 1Thess 4. None of those chapters mention a "70th week" or the "midst of the week" or any such thing. In the bible we have these 3 rules 1. All bible timelines are unbroken and contiguous without exception. .Daniel 9:1-7 is a good example withe Jeremiah's 70 years. 2. All Apocalyptic timeline use day-for-year symbolism. Each day is one solar year. 3. Bible authors build on the previous prophetic statements of scripture.
  6. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. What did Jesus mean? First, what are "those days?" 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Many people imagine that Jesus put a TITLE on the last half of the week, titling it "The Great Tribulation." No, there is no such title for the last half of the week. In Jesus' own words, there will be "those days" of "great tribulation." What will cause "those days" of GT? John tells us: there will be an image erected, as Nebuchadnezzar did, and the Beast will force all to worship this image or be put to death. Next, there will be a mark established, and all must receive this mark, or be put to death. All will know, (whether they believe it or not) that to take the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. NO ONE will be able to buy or sell without the mark. Drinkable or safe water will become very hard to find. The only safe water will be in stores. But without the mark, no safe water to drink. Therefore, hunger and thirst will become intolerable and people may take the mark just to get a drink of water. In other words, GREAT PRESSURE will be put on people to take this mark. How long will "those days" of GT last? First, when will "those days" begin? If we follow along with John's narrative in Revelation, we see the warning not to take the mark is in Rev. 14. And in chapter 15, we see the beheaded people begin to show up in heaven. Therefore the days of great tribulation will begin sometime between chapters 14 and 15. However, this is not to say hard times won't come before. The Beast will begin his attack on believers shortly after the midpoint. As John shows us, the False Prophet or second beast does not show up at the midpoint, but some unknown time later. It is the False prophet that convinces the people to erect this image to the Beast. So the image itself will come some unknown time after the midpoint of the week. It is also this False Prophet that creates this mark without which no one can buy or sell. How long into the second half of the week will the image and mark be created? No one knows. John did not tell us. HOW will God "shorten" "those days" of "great tribulation?" When the murdering of the saints gets to a peak, God will begin pouring out the vials of His wrath, which will "shorten" those days of GT. In other words, after a few of these vials, there will be no one in the Beast's armies hunting down believers or beheading them. These vials of wrath will bring the Beast's operations to a HALT. Thus, the days of GT that could be, will not be. The beast will still have his 42 months of authority, but will be rendered helpless by the vials of wrath and associated plagues. Therefore, no one really knows how many days will be included in "those days." It is an unknown. All we can know is, the Beast, the False Prophet, and their armies will be rendered almost helpless as it relates to hunting down believers and beheading them. It will be the number of days that gets shortened. The 70th week will not be shortened, or will the Beast's 42 months get shortened.
  7. There may not be another verse in the bible with so much controversy as Daniel 9:27. I challenge the readers to read this verse in these different translations to give the full meaning presented by Daniel. I highlighted parts that seem different than KJV. J.P. Green's Literal: 27 And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator. Douay-Rheims Bible: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fail: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end. The complete Jewish Bible: 27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." Peshitta - Lamsa Translation: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for seven weeks and half of seven weeks, then he shall cause the sacrifice and gift offerings to cease, and upon the horns of the altar the abomination of desolation; and the desolation shall continue until the end of the appointed time; the city shall remain desolate. Wycliff Bible: 27 Forsothe (Indeed) o wouk `of yeeris (a week of years) schal conferme the couenaunt (shall confirm the covenant) to many men, and the offryng and sacrifice schal faile ( offering and sacrifice shall fail) in the myddis of the wouke of yeeris (in the middle of he week of years) ; and abhomynacioun of desolacioun (an abomination of desolation) schal be in the temple, (shall be in the temple) and the desolacioun schal contynue (the desolation shall continue) til to the parformyng and ende. (till the performing and end.) Miles Coverdale Bible: He shall make a stronge bonde with many, for the space of a weke: and when the weke is half gone, he shal put downe the slayne and meatoffringe. And in the temple there shalbe an abhominable desolacio, till it haue destroyed all. And it is concluded, yt this waistinge shal continue vnto the ende. Some have said that Daniel 9:27 is not talking about the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of. Yet when we see other translations, we see that Jesus was probably quoting from this verse in Daniel. In other words, Daniel 9 certain covers this abomination of desolation. However, Daniel also wrote of it in chapter 12: Daniel 12:11 (Peshitta - Lamsa) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be abolished, and the abomination is given to destruction, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Young's literal: and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety. Then Daniel told us of the abomination done by Antiochus Epiphanes: This is a TYPE of what the Beast of Rev. 13 will do in our future. Douay-Rheims Bible: Daniel 11:31: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice: and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation. King James: And armes shal stand on his part, and they shall pollute the Sanctuarie of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shal place the abomination that maketh desolate. In every one of these verses, the daily sacrifice is stopped. That means, ceased: the next day there will NOT BE a sacrifice. The Complete Jewish Bible probably says it best: "put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering." How can anyone misread "put a stop to?" Question: the theory that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is what stopped the daily sacrifices has been proposed on this forum. When we understand that the daily sacrifices DID NOT STOP when Jesus died, and did not stop when he rose from the dead, but continued on for many years, how can it be possible that anyone can still hold to that theory? The truth is, Jesus did NOT stop the daily sacrifices: these verses tell us it is the placing of an abomination in the temple that stops the sacrifices. All Jesus did was stop the NEED for these sacrifices. Comparing all these translations, and these verses: it is clear, there is an abomination that will cause the daily sacrifices to cease at the midpoint (halfway point) of the week. That abomination will be placed (or will walk) into the Holy of Holies, and then from that time, desolations will continue to the end. Question: since the stopping of the daily sacrifices and the presence of the abomination of desolation are found right next to each other in one sentence, can we establish a cause and effect relationship? i think we can. The Old Testament tells us if the temple is desecrated, it must be cleansed before Sacrifices can continue again. Now, what can we find in the New Testament that will confirm this? Matthew 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) How can anyone with common sense deny that this is speaking of the same thing we found in Daniel? Jesus is quoting Daniel! And Jesus is answering a question about the end of the age. This end of the age is still ahead of us today. Now let's examine this event: the conclusion from all the scriptures in Daniel is that an EVENT: the placing of an abomination in the temple, will cause the daily sacrifices to stop. And this event will be what divides the week. Question: how in the world can an event in our future divide a week, if we don't have an entire week to divide? It would be impossible. There MUST BE an entire week in our future that can be divided into two equal halves. The scriptures prove it is an abomination that will divided the week and stop the daily sacrifices. Jesus Himself put this abomination into our future (the end of the age). Therefore, if it is the abomination that divided the week, THERE MUST BE A WEEK TO DIVIDE at the same time. Then there is another point: the HE that confirms a covenant is the same HE that will break this covenant. Question: can anyone imagine that Jesus Christ would break a covenant after 3 1/2 years? Does GOD break covenants? It seems the scriptural evidence is overwhelming that sometime in our future, someone will enter the temple or place in the temple an abomination, and this will stop the sacrifices and will divide the week. Paul tells us that the man of sin will accomplish this. Comments?
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