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Found 5 results

  1. I will endeavor to explain each step of the multi-faceted prophecy by Daniel in chapters 11 and 12. Its a tedious project to be sure, but I got tired of telling everyone who asked me what Daniel chapter 11 meant and having to tell them it was too complex for me to explain it unto them, so I went to studying and matching each verse with history as best I could. I found Daniel chapter 12 is an extension of Daniel chapter 11, so they kind of go hand and hand, Daniel 10 should actually go with this as its all one big vision, but for brevity's sake (if you want to call it that, LOL) we can chat about chapter 10 in the thread if needed. DANIEL CHAPTER 11 & 12 AN EXEGESIS OF SORTS: Daniel 11 King James Version (KJV) 11 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. The first verse in chapter 11 is seemingly a direct continuation of chapter 10. Gabriel is still uttering unto Daniel things to come. Gabriel states that back in the first year of Darius (same year Daniel ch. 9 was given us) that he "stood to confirm and strengthen him". So what does this even mean? Who are the players here? Micheal, Gabriel, Darius and Daniel, so who stood to confirm and strengthen? I proffer that its Darius who is being strengthened by Gabriel and I get that by looking at the next few verses in contextual sequence. It seems Gabriel comes against certain world powers and sometimes strengthens other world powers, according to Gods will. The powers of the spiritual world and their behind the scenes back and forth is indeed fascinating. 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. This seems to be the whole history of Persia in one verse, just a filler of history so to speak. 3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. This of course is about Alexander the great of Grecian lore. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those. After Alexander the Great died there stood up four Kings in his stead, this is not the norm to say the least. Succession of Kingdoms are usually passed from father to son or some close kin and thus this prophetic uttering was spot on, the Kingdom was divided unto his four Generals. 5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion. The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described. (Inset: Timeline & Map of the Syrian Wars.) 6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times. We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife. 7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land. The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass. 10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress. 11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand. 12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it. This of course is the Forth Syrian War. Antiochus III tried to invade the south but Ptolemy IV defeated him despite having a lesser army, but this seems to have manged to weaken both of them somewhat. 13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. 15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand. 16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed. This of course is the Fifth Syrian War. Antiochus III returned some years later with a much larger army and took the land of Israel by force. 17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him. Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thicker than water it seems !! 18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found. Antiochus III ventured to take more lands, against the will of the Romans. He angered his former ally Macedonian king Philip V also, and was eventually killed in his homeland while plundering a pagan temple. 20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle. Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems. 21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the young heir to the throne. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. The High Priest, Onias III (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price, Jason's real name was Yeshua, he favored the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel, where as his brother Onias III was a pious man of God who was put to death. 23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be the protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them via craftiness. This was seemingly his master-plan. 24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time. Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt's trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning, just like the coming Anti-Christ will be. 25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain. This is the Sixth Syrian War, (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians stood by him and betrayed Ptolemy VI. He was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer. 27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed. Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course eventually made king of Egypt by the Alexandrian's who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer. 28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland) 29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. TRANSITION PERIOD I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters. SEGMENTED HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVES It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology. Although you might say we are at the utter end of verse 35, for the most part when the Rapture hits we will be at verse 36 via the Tribulation period. We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage, we know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !! 36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. This verse insinuates he is an Atheist, and that he takes no heed of the thoughts of women, or it may mean he takes no heed unto an observance of the women's gods, what-soever that might entail. He listens not to women is the inference I take from this, their desires affect him on no wise. Like modern day Muslims, hes oblivious to their thoughts. He then magnifies himself or elevates himself to the equal of God. He of course demands to be worshiped as God. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. This European King who is born in Greece will be a man of war, he rules by brute force. I think the god his fathers knew not will be himself, he will of course place an image of himself in the temple of God. Thus he divides the land of Israel and the spoil thereof. Of course him being a Turk (Assyrian) its possible the god of his father could be Allah. 40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a part of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast). The Egyptian part of the Greek kingdom was the king of the south. I think the king of the south here is more than just Egypt however, my thinking is the king of the south here is all of North Africa along with maybe Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Qatar,Yemen well you all get the point, its those nations who seemingly pushes at or comes against the king of the north or European Union and the Beast. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. The Anti-Christ (King of the North here) enters into the Holy land, and many countries shall be overthrown. I think this infers he conquers Israel and the many nations he entered into peace/security agreements with, I think it will be the king of the south or all the Arab nations I mentioned above plus or minus some here or there no doubt. Once he conquers Israel and these other nations he becomes the Beast of the region course. But God says Edom, Moab and Ammon will escape out of his hands, these three are just east of Israel. So basically Jordan is not touched, seemingly this is where Israel flees unto and God protects them in this Wilderness for 1260 days in Petra. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. This seems to confirm my understanding above, he conquers all of North Africa and thus hes the Mediterranean Sea Region Beast like all the ones that came before him. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) He is the last of the Beasts, he will never pass his kingdom on to another thus he is known as the Beast himself, a man, the last Beast. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. We can not know for certain what this verse means, we can of course make an educated guess. The east tidings could mean Iran and Iraq or it could mean China. The north tidings could be Russia. Remember he is the king himself of the European Union thus its natural that if he invaded Israel and a bunch of oil rich nations he might very well get push back from China and Russia, both nations with great prestige and a vested interest in these oil rich nations themselves. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. The Glorious holy mountain is most certainly Jerusalem. You have the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea on either side of Jerusalem, so that could be what the verse is implying as per the "between the seas". I think we all know tabernacles means dwelling place, thus he will dwell in Jerusalem, seemingly in a grand palace. Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV) 12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. I think Micheal is the Angel God has chosen to protect Israel at the end times thus he stands up meaning he wields his authority/power at the appointed time. Some think he allows the Anti-Christ to come forth, but I see that as Jesus Christ opening of the Seals in Rev. ch. 6. At this time, at the end times, Daniel is basically told this will be when the resurrections of the Saints will happen. I do not think Daniel is told any specific time as per the resurrections, its just a general timing, "at the end". So at this great time of troubles, Micheal will deliver the Jewish peoples from their despair, I think he delivers them unto Petra in Jordan and protects them for 1260 days. Everyone who makes it to heaven however has to do it via faith !! 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. That was the end of the vision Gabriel gave to Daniel. It spanned from Daniels time on earth, both the Persian and Grecian Empires and all the way to the end of time and the resurrection of the Saints and even tells of a future eternity. Gabriel told Daniel of Babylon and coming Beast systems. It was not easily understood, especially before all of these events came to pass, even now many people still have problems understanding these complex prophesies of God. But Gabriel must have sensed Daniels confusion, thus he seemingly tries to explain it somewhat, thus Dan. ch. 12 is extended a wee bit for Daniel. 5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Daniel sees two more "people" besides Gabriel. One is a man clothed in linen on the water, this would seem to me to be Jesus Christ even though Daniel had no concept of exactly who he was it seems. Gabriel or another Angel then asks Jesus how long shall it be until the end of these wonders. I think he sensed Daniels confusion and tried to give him some further understanding. He then proceeds to swear by Him that lives forever, that when the holy peoples shall be scattered there will be a time, times and a half [time] and everything will have been accomplished, or these wonders will have ceased. Meaning that from the time Israel are scattered or flee Judea until all of these prophesies are fulfilled there will be 1260 days. (time, times and half time) In other words Jesus returns and buttons up all of these prophesies exactly 1260 days after the Israel people flee Judea (are scattered). Daniel then asks for more understanding because he had no clue what he was being told SEE BELOW: 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel begs for more clarity, but Gabriel tells him to go his way, he basically tells him it will take future events coming to pass in order for people to understand these prophetic uttering's. At the time of the end these prophesies will start to become clearer via our understandings of history and via the word of God. He then tells Daniel many shall be purified and made white (Jesus' blood) and tried, but the wicked will still do wickedness and will never understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. This is of course the end time Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24 and Daniel here in this book of Daniel in several places. This is being spoken of as an event that happens 1290 days from the end of these wonders or prophesies. So just like its 1260 days from the time the Jews power is scattered, thus they are conquered, likewise its 1290 days from the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until Jesus' second coming ends all of these wonders Daniel was being shown. The Abomination of Desolation has to come before the Jews flee Judea, thus the 1290 event must come before the 1260 event. Thus the 1335 event would have to come before both the 1260 and the 1290 events. Its just mathematical logistics. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. Gabriel is telling Daniel things he knows he will never understand in his lifetime. But Gabriel understands that Israel will reject Jesus the Messiah, he understands they will be dispersed all over the world and that God will turn His back on Israel for almost 2000 years. He understands that even when God starts blessing Israel again (1948) they still do not believe in God/Jesus as their Messiah. Then Gabriel seemingly tells Daniel blessed is he that comes to the 1335 Event. Meaning as per my understanding, that is the day Israel starts turning back unto God and accepts their Messiah Jesus Christ. (1335 days before Jesus' second coming). This is why they know to flee Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation, they have to have already repented or else they would not follow Jesus' instructions would they? This is why they know to flee to Petra 1/3 are now Messianic Jews. This is why they understand who the Anti-Christ is when they see the events unfolding, remember in Matthew 24, Jesus says Behold, I have told you before[hand]. Israel have repented before the Day of the Lord comes just like Malachi 4:5-6 says they will do. God sends Elijah to turn Israel back unto God before the Great a Dreadful Day of the Lord comes. The Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) starts at the 1260 Event. Then Daniel is told he will stand with the Saints at the end. How I see the 1260, 1290 and 1335 Events. 1.) The 1335 Event is 1335 Days from the time Israel repents until Jesus' Second Coming, this is when the Two-witnesses show up in Jerusalem. 2.) The 1290 Event is 1290 Days from the Abomination of Desolation is set-up until Jesus' Second Coming, the Jews Flee at this point, not at the 1260 Event. 3.) The 1260 Event is 1260 Days from the time Israel is Conquered or their power is Scattered until Jesus' Second Coming. Israel are given a 30 day period to Flee Judea, when the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem it will be to late. They must leave when they see the AoD set up in the Temple of God. This is the False Prophets doings, but the Anti-Christ will be released 30 days later.
  2. omharris

    Wearing out the saints

    This is a post I made to my blog site in 2015. It is still important and valid. This phrase “shall wear out the saints,” came up in conversation recently. It begs explanation and answers; at least in my opinion. Depending on what version of the Bible you are using, wear out is also translated as: exhaust, crush, hurt, and consume. It is the Chaldean word belâ, meaning: to afflict, and it is only used once in the Bible. The terms wear out and to afflict, say two entirely different things to me. One makes me think of the damage I used to do to my jeans during the summers as a child. We climbed and slid across everything we could. Mental pressure could certainly do that. To afflict on the other hand has a broad range of violence attached to it. I can remember the knuckle to the head in grade school, but it can also mean beheadings. Needs some clarity, doesn’t it? I asked, when does this take place, and is it possible that we are in it now? Does it imply a continuous action, or it could be at a given moment? Is it suggesting common issues of life or a constant threat of death? Allow me to apologize up front. This piece, as with most of my writings is long. There is a reason for that, and it comes out of conversations and sadly, disputes. The confrontations, when you follow the broken logic, could never end as every illogical argument seems to be thrown at you. Most of these arguments are easily resolved if the person speaking would merely read their bible, but they do not. They only read and hear what they want. That is why these become more of a visual conversation. One in which I could actually pull up concise information, such as quotes from Josephus, that clearly show why the answer is not always so black and white, or narrow-minded. On that note: there is only one way, and his name is Jesus. The confrontations are not so much on my part, mainly because my memory is shot and I am not retaining scriptural references as I once could. I think that this is the Holy Spirit keeping me in check, because I know me, and I would shred these false teachers if given a chance. Since I cannot, I often defer and withdraw. I hate that, but if I look at this in terms of a warrior who has taken a hit to a dominant arm or hand. They might be rendered ineffective, but you will not remove the warrior mentality from them. That warrior mentality can become a burden at times, primarily because there is no need for a full-on clash. Sometimes all you need to do is reason with people. I suppose I should tell you that I am still affected by learning disabilities and often find my mind disconnecting from the topic. This is particularly noticeable to me when I am under pressure. Thankfully, we have the Holy Spirit, and it stuns me the way he kicks in and gives me the words to say. I wish that happened every time. One other thing; I have also come to realize that I do not have to be heard all the time. This takes a tremendous amount of pressure off me, as I have come to realize that God is in control, not me. While we understand that Satan is the perpetual enemy of the believer, scripture tells us that there is a particular time range. Unfortunately, this wearing out of the Saints falls during is during a vast, nondescript period, the time of the fourth beast. The particular reference is found in Daniel’s book of prophecies. “Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.” (Daniel 7:23-26 KJV) I felt safe in calling the time of the fourth beast, vast and nondescript because we have a sharp clarity on the identity of the former three kingdoms. The last of the three was the Grecian Empire starting with Alexander and continuing through the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires. Although, we like to speculate that the fourth empire was the Roman Empire, which is not spelled out as the others were. The typical approach most use in determining what to call this empire, and therefore decide where the “beast” will come from is published in the book of Daniel, specifically: Daniel 9:26 KJV And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. If you have followed me, long enough you understand that this has two fulfillments. One came under the rule of the Roman general Titus and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. However, there is another fulfillment coming in the last days. Titus, the Roman general, is considered by many to be “the prince that shall come.” However, if you do your research, you find that the evidence leans toward a Middle Eastern people, not Roman. Here is what the historian Josephus tells us in - The Wars of the Jews - Book 5 Chapter 13 “.yet did another plague seize upon those that were thus preserved; for there was found among the Syrian deserters a certain person who was caught gathering pieces of gold out of the excrements of the Jews' bellies; for the deserters used to swallow such pieces of gold, as we told you before, when they came out, and for these did the seditious search them all; for there was a great quantity of gold in the city, insomuch that as much was now sold [in the Roman camp] for twelve Attic [drams], as was sold before for twenty-five. But when this contrivance was discovered in one instance, the fame of it filled their several camps that the deserters came to them full of gold. So the multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came as supplicants, and searched their bellies. Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night's time about two thousand of these deserters were thus dissected." "Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?" In The Wars of the Jews book 6, chapter 4, Josephus tells us that many considered the temple a citadel for the Jews and an inspiration to continue rebelling against the Roman occupation. The fire had already been ordered against the gates of the temple, but Titus argued and verbally prevailed in regards to saving the temple. "But Titus said, that "although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves;" and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued. So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins, and quench the fire." "Titus's retiring, the seditious lay still for a little while, and then attacked the Romans again, when those that guarded the holy house fought with those that quenched the fire that was burning the inner [court of the] temple; but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the holy house itself. At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard about it." Notice the reaction of Titus and ask yourself, does this look like someone bent on a complete destruction of the temple? "And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. But they did not hear what he said, though he spake so loud, having their ears already dimmed by a greater noise another way; nor did they attend to the signal he made with his hand neither, as still some of them were distracted with fighting, and others with passion. But as for the legions that came running thither, neither any persuasions nor any threatening could restrain their violence, but each one's own passion was his commander at this time;” I perceive this statement to be the most telling of them all, and it was said by Titus, the Roman general: “Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?" Titus’ fear was that the barbarity of these men would be ascribed to the Romans, and that is exactly what we do when we declare the fourth empire to be a revived Roman Empire. Do you not see that ascribing Rome to the fourth empire also takes our eyes off what could be the true evil of the last days, Islam? In recent years, I held the position that “the saints” were only those that were martyred during the seven-year period of God’s wrath, that we so foolishly call the tribulation. I did the very thing I despise, spewing out concepts as fact without checking my Bible adequately. Paul used the term saints throughout his writings, and that tends to dispel the idea that the saints are exclusive to the years of wrath. Several examples are Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Ephesians 6:8, and numerable others. The terminology saint immediately takes me to Revelation where we see things like the woman, drunken with the blood of the saints (Revelation 17:6). It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the largest implication here is the martyred saints. However, there is something notable about John’s writings. He never used the term saints in speaking about the church outside of the Revelation; the majority of the time he calls them –little children and brethren. The feel is one of association and an understanding of the heart and character of God. Considering John’s beginnings in comparison to the end, it only makes sense that he would have God’s heart as he unfolds the Revelation, a time of nightmarish destruction and judgment. This time is not directed at “my little children.” I realize that I initiated this conversation with a portion of Daniel, not John, yet they talk about the same thing. This demonstrates the leading and direction of the Holy Spirit. We cannot discount that John’s recollection of Daniel’s prophecies may have played a role in John’s terminology. When you look at end times prophecy, there are only three people groups to consider: the Jews, the nations, and the church. While there can and will be some crossing over between the Jews and the church; at that point followers of Christ are considered a part of the church. Some will say that God gave up on the Jews. I do not think so. He has engraved their names and faces on the palms of his hands. You do not give up something that precious, especially after showing that level of commitment. God has a plan to drive the heart of the Jew, his chosen, back to himself. Unfortunately, there is much pain and suffering involved with that journey. In general, the Jews have rejected Jesus, the Messiah, and therefore subject themselves to the wrath that is coming. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou had known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knew not the time of thy visitation. (Luke 19:41-44 KJV) The rejection of God by Israel is a common theme. An example of this is seen in the selection of Saul as king. And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. (1 Samuel 8:7 KJV) The nations could also be referred to as the Gentiles. Daniel referred to them as the people of the prince that shall come. Jesus, talking about the days of vengeance said, “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24 KJV) The church is the entire collection of believers comprising the body of Christ. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:15-18 KJV) In general, the church is excluded from the wrath, or vengeance, that is coming upon the earth. But God proves his love for us by this (James Moffatt), in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:8-9 KJV) “. you turned to God from idols, to serve a living and a real God and to wait for the coming of his Son from heaven — the Son whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who rescues us from the Wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 Moffatt NT) The church likes to hold itself in exclusivity, thinking that we are protected from tribulation. Look, Jesus guaranteed us three things: In this world, you will have tribulation. You will be hated by all men for my names’ sake. I will come again for you. Tribulation and Wrath/vengeance is two different things. Tribulation is non-stop and comes in many forms. It has nothing to do with your inability to buy a new propeller for the family ski boat. Get real, people in parts of the world where there is a heavy Muslim influence are being killed daily. If you lived under a constant threat of death, do you think you would feel as though you are being worn down, absolutely? Perhaps the Bible in Basic English translates it more appropriately. Daniel 7:25 (a) BBE “And he will say words against the Most High, attempting to put an end to the saints of the Most High;” It is clear that the intent is to kill the saints. And he shall speak words against the Most High, and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High. And he intends to change times and law. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time. (Daniel 7:25 LITV) Daniel 7:23 Declares what was to come, the fourth beast. If the fourth beast is Islam, then that was initiated over 600 years after Christ's death by Muhammad. Born approximately in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca,[9][10] Muhammad was orphaned at an early age; he was raised under the care of his paternal uncle Abu Talib. After his childhood, Muhammad primarily worked as a merchant.[11] Occasionally he would retreat to a cave in the mountains for several nights of seclusion and prayer; later, at age 40, he reported at this spot,[9][12] that he was visited by Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" (lit. islām) to Him is the only way (dīn)[n 3] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, similar to other Islamic prophets.[13][14][15] (From Wikipedia.) Islam has operated under various caliphates since the death of Muhammad in 632 AD (BCE). While all of them caused the Middle Eastern world grief, the largest most powerful were the Ottoman Caliphate. Ottoman Caliphate (1453/1517–1924) At the end of October 1922, the Allies invited the nationalist and Ottoman governments to a conference at Lausanne, Switzerland, but Atatürk was determined that the nationalist government should be Turkey's sole representative. In November 1922, the Grand National Assembly separated the offices of sultan and caliph and abolished the former. The assembly further stated that the Ottoman regime had ceased to be the government of Turkey when the Allies seized the capital in 1920, in effect abolishing the Ottoman Empire. Excerpt from, the Ottomans.org Is it possible that believers have been under attack for eighteen hundred years, without a doubt! Pay attention to another aspect of Islam. “The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered. Following the 2011 Revolution the group was legalized,[5] and in April 2011 it launched a civic political party called the Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) to contest elections.” (Wikipedia) Notice that this is two years after the Caliphate was disbanded. “Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]” (Wikipedia) The point to this is that Islam has been a destructive thorn in the flesh of those who do not comply for over 1800 years. Have they been a global threat throughout their history, no, but it took a global response to subdue them in 1922. I think we can agree that they are global now, and a greater threat than ever before. Aside from that, their prime directive is to kill the people of the book, which would be the Jew and the Christian. Have you noticed that they are making a serious dent in their goals? If you have watched the news the last couple of years, then you are aware of Christians that are being slaughtered in the mid-East and African nations. Perhaps you have also noticed that attacks against any group outside of Islam are fair game to them. Buddhists, Catholics, you name it. They even fight each other as though there is a competition to see who can follow the Qur’an most precisely. Unfortunately, for the outsider, while the Qur’an does have passages devoted to peace, they are superseded by newer passages that demand a strict and violent compliance. I think it is evident that there is affliction directed at Christians in certain parts of the world. Not to be left out of this violence against Christians is China and North Korea. I suppose the question is, how long until this level of violence comes to the Americas and afflicts us as well? Do not think that your non-belief will protect you. In general, Islam feels that any American is a Christ follower and worthy of death. Scripture tells me that you may have a chance to reject God and accept Allah as your God of choice, bowing before him in worship. Perhaps that will save your neck for the moment. I am aware that they cut a man’s head off anyway, possibly because they felt he was a coward with no backbone. I suspect it will not be as easy as that, and they may not have the time to await your decision. Of course, giving into this cuts you off from any hope of a relationship with God. In other words, there is no turning back from this decision. If you do not know this Jesus Christ, you can. Ask him into your life, and turn yourself over to him and accept his forgiveness. Allow him to run it. You do not have to work for your salvation, as it is free and paid for, you merely have to receive this life and salvation. You will experience a peace that you have never known before and a promise that he will come for you so that you can live with him in glory.
  3. I have, for the most part, not commented on many of the passages we have read in our Bible readings. Part of this is because I am lazy, but part of it is also, because we have the Worthy Christian Forums where discussion already goes on, and it is a place where Many views are represented. When I set up the Bible 365 Club, one of the things I wanted to accomplish, was just to get people into God's word and read it, without the need for squabbling. Here in Daniel 12, I don't think it is proper for me, to not draw attention to some connections to the New Testament. Reading the Bible for the sake of reading it, is not to get it's full benefit, we want also to understand what we are reading. With that said, I am not attempting here, to use this as a soap box for my particular views, but I do think I have a responsibility to connect some of the dots, since some Bible 365 Club members may be encountering some verses and concepts for the first time. By providing some Bible passages outside of our reading assignments or schedule, we can broaden our understanding a little, and begin to make some of the connections that we can examine, and hopefully the Holy Spirit will aid our understanding. In Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus is speaking with His disciples about the time of the end. Those are good chapters to read to broaden our understanding about the things of the end. However, here we are in Daniel 12, so what are the connections I am alluding to? Quoting from Matt 24:15 (NIV in this case) Jesus said to His disciples: “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—" and in Mark 13:14 it reads: “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’a standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand— These passages make reference to a coming abomination, and desolation, and the Matthew one tells us that this is spoken of in Daniel. In Daniel 12:11, here is a connection: 11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days." This is a perfect example of a principle of Bible study, comparing scripture with scripture. Here we have something in the Old Testament, that is difficult to understand, or at least might make us wonder. However, in the New Testament, we get some explanation and elaboration. Now, if you read the New Testament passages that I mentioned in Matt, Mark and Luke, you might well have more questions than answers, but at least you will understand with a little more detail, something about Daniel 12. Just to give you some more connections, more things to file in the back of you mind, allow me to point out some concepts or details to take note of, that will help you to make associations in other chapters of various books of the Bible. Not going to get into it deeply here, but notice in Dan 12:11, not only the abomination of desolation, but, the specific 1290 days. Be mindful of that number, and of numbers that the Bible is going to bring up from time to time, in the context of the end times. Examples, 1260 days, time, times, and half a time, 3 and a half, the week and the middle of the week. Also of interest in this connection, is the concept of "great tribulation". Jesus uses that description in Matt 24: 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. In this case, the NIV says great distress. The word distress is the Greek word "thlípsis". Many versions use the word "tribulation". It basically means pressure. To understand the word better, see http://biblehub.com/greek/2347.htm I do, however, want to make another connection, so we can again, see that Jesus and the book of Daniel, are referring to the same thing. Again, Jesus said in Matt 24:21 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again." Notice that in this distress or tribulation, is unique, not having an equal previously, not in the future. How does Daniel describe this? From 12:1: “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then." It is also note-worthy, that Michael is mentioned. You probably know, that Michael is an archangel. That ties in to this (probably) if you look at 1 Thess 4:16, and comparing that verse or passage, with the Matt 24 one. I am not trying to send you down all sorts of side trails, but these things are all related. Going to stop at this point, and move along. Thanks for reading what I have said here, and especially for reading the Bible itself.
  4. So, looking forward, not from Johns perspective of the vision, why would the Euphrates need to be dried up in a modern world, where bridges exist and and the capability of crossing rivers with huge Armies was proven to be a somewhat easy chore in World War Two ? That is the logical question. And is the Army even an Army of men or is it an army of Angels/Saints ? Is this event symbolism of Israel/Judah being saved by Cyrus, the "anointed one" (Isaiah 45:1) a type of Christ/Messiah, via the drying up of the River Euphrates. The deliverance from the Babylonian captivity as foreseen by Isaiah becomes in itself a prophetic picture of the deliverance of the spiritual Israel, God’s remnant people, with the conquering Cyrus (Christ) as the great Deliverer for whom they have waited. The designation of Cyrus as “my Anointed” in Isaiah 45:1 is significant for in the Hebrew it is “my Messiah” and the Greek form of course is “Christ”, both forms meaning “anointed”. This, with the designation ‘My Shepherd’ (48:28) also a messianic title, marks Cyrus as a type or symbol of Christ”. Isaiah 46 and 47 continues the prophecy of Cyrus (but also adds what can only be future events) but its all linked with the description of the destruction of Babylon. In Revelation 18, the pattern is repeated in almost identical fashion concerning end time spiritual Babylon. As concerning the Destruction of Babylon, in Daniel 5, they all drank wine out of the vessels of the temple of the Lord and praised and worshiped all of their false gods therein. (Gold, silver, brass, wood, stone) And the same hour the "finger/hand of God" wrote their destruction, "Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin" meaning God has numbered thy Kingdom, and finished it, thy Kingdom has been weighed in the balances and found wanting, and thy Kingdom is laid waste and divided. So is Revelation 9 and the Drying up of the River Euphrates a symbolic gesture of a coming Salvation unto Israel/Judah ? A defeating of "Babylon" ? It would seem so. The "Thousand" mentioned in Rev. 9 is the Greek word MURIAS G3461 meaning (1) ten thousand (2) an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number (3) innumerable hosts ----From G3463; a ten thousand; by extension a "myriad" or indefinite number:—ten thousand. The 200 Million mentioned in Revelation 9:16. This number is expressed in the Greek as 'two myriads of myriads' or in numeric form, "two 10,000 of 10,000". There is no Hundred in the verse anywhere. I am pretty sure this means Two Myriads of people. Is this an Army of men of War attacking Israel, or an Army of Men/Saints/Angels delivering Israel ? In Revelation 9 a horde of Demons is loosed from the bottomless pit when the Fifth Angel sounds the Fifth trumpet, and is given the key to the bottomless pit. (Rev 9:1) Their "Breastplates were of Iron" but the Army of the Myriad or 2 thousand thousand, has Breastplates of What ? {breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, } ( Two Myriads we must ask, could it be the Great Multitude and the 144,000 ? Just a thought. ) The breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue and sulfur yellow of the horsemen equate to the breastplate worn by the high priest. Exodus 28:15 You shall make the breastplate of judgment. Artistically woven according to the workmanship of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine wove, linen, you shall make it. Only in this case all 200 million (or all of the Myriad or the innumerable number) are being presented as high priests. The power of these horsemen (fire, smoke and brimstone) comes from their mouths and their tails. { The mouth represents The Holy Spirit/Word of God, and the tails represent the venomous (9:19 their tails were like unto serpents) actions against mankind they have been given the power to bring forth.) Rev. 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. So, these Myriads are placing plagues upon whom ? People that worshiped idols of gold, silver, brass, stone and wood (Just like Daniel 5 and the Judgment of Babylon) and they would not REPENT of their evil ways. This is Gods plagues, upon an evil mankind. The (200 Million ?) as they have been called are actually two Myriads of angels/men/saints or servants of God that are Judging mankind with plagues. Everyone has this backwards in my honest opinion. Where is this 200 Million pictured as coming against Israel ? The Kings of the East in Rev. 16 is a different event than the 200 million on Rev. 9, it is a Vial Judgment/event, not a Trumpet Judgment/event. I think it is the Kings of the East alright, but it is Persia ( Just like Daniel 5 ) Syria, Turkey and the hordes of Islamic Muslims, who might very well, not being a modern army, see the River Euphrates drying up, as a calling for them to attack Israel, these might actually travel across the River bed, and Turkey, who has a Dam that can block the water or Dry up the River might instigate this, more than likely it just dries up . Lot of what ifs here, but the main thrust of the matter is, the Kings of the East and the Two Hundred Million (or Myriad and Myriad) are not the same event, at all. One is a Trumpet and the other is a Vial. The fall of Babylon was the signal for the deliverance of the Jewish remnant from their long and languishing exile under their Babylonian conquerors. Under the Persian rule, the command for their release was given, first by Cyrus the conqueror of Babylon and then by the great kings who succeeded him. Revelation again speaks of the "drying of the River of the Euphrates. Once again this needs to be connected with the deliverance of God’s remnant from the persecuting oppression of last day Babylonian overlords. (Last Beast System) The sixth Vial (Kings of the East coming against Israel) is immediately followed by the seventh which relates to the destruction of Babylon, and the following two chapters of Revelation 17 and 18 are a prophetic enlargement of what is stated in brief in chapter 16. The drying up of Euphrates therefore must be taken in a prophetic sense, of the way being prepared for the final overthrow of the great Satanic oppression that has made the nations drunk with its wine. So attack and oppression is followed by deliverance. In Revelation 19 we see Christ, the KING of kings, riding forth with the armies (Saints and Angels) of heaven. They come to deliver God's remnant people (Israel and Christians who were left) and put an end to Babylon and the forces supporting Babylon. Ancient Babylon a city "most proud," with "a golden cup…that made all the earth drunken…of her wine." Jeremiah 50:32; 51:7. Has a remarkable link to last day Babylon in Revelation 17-18. (False Religion and Gov. without God at its head) Yet she was to fall suddenly and be destroyed (Jeremiah 51:8). Then God would call Israel, saying, "My people, go ye out of the midst of her." Jeremiah 51:45. These exact words are repeated in the book of Revelation to Israel about the importance of coming out of modern Babylon (Revelation 17:4, 5; 18:2-8). Jeremiah 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel. 50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. 51:7 Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 51:8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed. 51:45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD. Amazing !! This matches up with with God coming against Babylon the Great Harlot in 17 and with Babylon the Beast in Rev. 18. The Sixth trumpet begins with the mention of a voice coming from the golden altar before God. As this altar is also called the 'altar of incense', there is an implication that this 6th trumpet event occurs in answer to prayer, Rev 5:8. In the narrative of the 6th trumpet we have a clear historical reference back to when the Chaldeans crossed the Euphrates and defeated the house of Judah. Refer 2 Chronicles 36:15-20. In the book of Zephaniah, who lived in the days immediately prior to the Chaldean invasion the Day of the LORD is clearly described as a day of trouble for the land of Judah (note verses 1:4,7,10,12,14-15,18, 2:1-3). Other nations are later mentioned, but primary attention is given to the wrath directed upon Judah. So, have I made a good case, am I crazy, or might I be on to something ? I been studying this a few weeks, this sprung up by accident from my studies on Babylon. My first thread.........Have at it........God Bless.
  5. "The king then gave orders, and they brought those men who had maliciously accused Daniel, and they cast them, their children and their wives into the lions’ den; and they had not reached the bottom of the den before the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones." Sorry if this is a silly question (I'm a new Christian), but why slaughter the women and children? Are there elements of the bible that is not nessesarly condoned by God but just a recording of history?
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