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  1. Forty days has been the standard biblical period for trial, tribulation and testing. The pounding downpour and great upwelling of water in Noah’s time lasted 40 days, and the Book of Jasher records that even those in the ark were in great distress until it all ended: Jasher 6:29 And great anxiety seized all the living creatures that were in the ark... 30 And all the living creatures that were in the ark were terrified…and every living creature in the ark spoke in its own language so that their voices reached to a great distance, and Noah and his sons cried and wept in their troubles; they were greatly afraid that they had reached the gates of death. …32 [After the 40 days] the Lord hearkened to the voice of Noah… 33 And a wind passed over the earth, and the waters were still and the ark rested. At the beginning of the Exodus, 40 days marked the initial period of trial and testing of the Israelites. It ended only after they overcame the Amalekite attack upon them, after which they had rest. Less that two years afterward, another 40 day-test of Israel came in the searching out the land of Canaan by the twelve spies, and the peoples’ response to their report. Elijah’s flight (while fasting) to Horeb, the Mountain of God, took 40 days. Jesus, the Divine Human, underwent 40 days of trial (while fasting) at the beginning of his ministry. Then later, after his resurrection, there came a concluding 40 days’ testing of the faith of the disciples up to the time of his ascension. In our time, a collapse of government, banking, the food distribution system and the electrical grid, coupled with chaos, war, and plague (the events of Seals 1-4), would bring near immediate tribulation for most people. Even those prepared might find it difficult to survive 40 days without either Divine or human (Church) assistance. Which may be why the Lord said, “unless those days were [i.e., will be] shortened, no flesh would be saved.” Also, Paul clearly stated in Hebrews 12:18-28 and elsewhere that the Church’s coming to heavenly Mount Zion will mimic Israel’s coming to earthly Mount Sinai. I suspect this will apply to the time period also. These are my reasons why I believe that the Great Tribulation will last no longer than 40 days, and possibly some days less than that. Not conclusive, but at least highly plausible. Despite the claims of some that this period will last 3½ or 7 years, not a single verse of Scripture actually says so.
  2. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. What did Jesus mean? First, what are "those days?" 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Many people imagine that Jesus put a TITLE on the last half of the week, titling it "The Great Tribulation." No, there is no such title for the last half of the week. In Jesus' own words, there will be "those days" of "great tribulation." What will cause "those days" of GT? John tells us: there will be an image erected, as Nebuchadnezzar did, and the Beast will force all to worship this image or be put to death. Next, there will be a mark established, and all must receive this mark, or be put to death. All will know, (whether they believe it or not) that to take the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. NO ONE will be able to buy or sell without the mark. Drinkable or safe water will become very hard to find. The only safe water will be in stores. But without the mark, no safe water to drink. Therefore, hunger and thirst will become intolerable and people may take the mark just to get a drink of water. In other words, GREAT PRESSURE will be put on people to take this mark. How long will "those days" of GT last? First, when will "those days" begin? If we follow along with John's narrative in Revelation, we see the warning not to take the mark is in Rev. 14. And in chapter 15, we see the beheaded people begin to show up in heaven. Therefore the days of great tribulation will begin sometime between chapters 14 and 15. However, this is not to say hard times won't come before. The Beast will begin his attack on believers shortly after the midpoint. As John shows us, the False Prophet or second beast does not show up at the midpoint, but some unknown time later. It is the False prophet that convinces the people to erect this image to the Beast. So the image itself will come some unknown time after the midpoint of the week. It is also this False Prophet that creates this mark without which no one can buy or sell. How long into the second half of the week will the image and mark be created? No one knows. John did not tell us. HOW will God "shorten" "those days" of "great tribulation?" When the murdering of the saints gets to a peak, God will begin pouring out the vials of His wrath, which will "shorten" those days of GT. In other words, after a few of these vials, there will be no one in the Beast's armies hunting down believers or beheading them. These vials of wrath will bring the Beast's operations to a HALT. Thus, the days of GT that could be, will not be. The beast will still have his 42 months of authority, but will be rendered helpless by the vials of wrath and associated plagues. Therefore, no one really knows how many days will be included in "those days." It is an unknown. All we can know is, the Beast, the False Prophet, and their armies will be rendered almost helpless as it relates to hunting down believers and beheading them. It will be the number of days that gets shortened. The 70th week will not be shortened, or will the Beast's 42 months get shortened.
  3. The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible A short Bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer July 28th, 2014 - Omegaman 3.0 There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events: 3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you." Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do. Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church. From 1 Thess chapter 4 Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air. 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent. 2 Thess 2 1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Jesus will come like a thief on unbelievers, but watchful Christians will know that He is about to come. 1 Thess 5 1Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture. 4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. This has been a summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times. I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well: 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4 I will end with this thought from the book of Acts: 19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time" Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative (Reply to a question - question asker asked for question to be deleted - but ok to leave answer if name not mentioned) Omegaman Jul 31 2014 10:23 PM Your reply touches on something that is always an issue, the idea of interpretation. I have no idea if I am right or I am wrong, I believe I am right of course, otherwise I would change my view, lol. However, where I think my understanding and belief is different from many, is that I try not to interpret at all, I just read, and try to understand. If you read my post, and I assume you did, you will have noticed that I did two things - I stated aspects of the doctrine which I accept, and then I stated the scripture that appears to support those points. You will have noticed that what I did not do was things like: "You see where it says 'elect', that is the Jews!" or: "See where it says the restrainer?" - that is the Holy Spirit: Those sorts of things, are interpretations, I just pointed out scripture and let it speak for itself. The things that are usually used to demonstrate a pre-tribulation rapture, are interpretations at best, usually they are arguments from silence, or assumed inferences not warranted by the text. For example, all of the ways people try to see a sudden, secret, any moment visit by Jesus, well, it is just odd, since the text never says any such thing. While I know people do not intend harm, it strikes me as dishonest to treat scripture so carelessly. Of course, I just stepped on millions of toes with that statement, but it frustrates me that people cannot see the difference between their assumptions and what the Bible actually says, and does not say. In my post I didn't even mention all the evidences that demonstrate the errors of pre-trib assumptions, I just tried to give positive evidence for a post trib position, and I did not have to assume or twist anything to do that - just posted scripture. I could still be in error for my understanding, but I do not think my understanding is unreasonable, and I expect that many others might notice that. My main point in my reply, that I would like you to take away, is that stating scripture, is not an interpretation, it is just stating scripture. I pointed out how, those scriptures might represent what I have come to believe. If the difference is not obvious, then I just wasted my time, but it will not be the first time I have done that. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond.
  4. Is this timeline possible?

    Greetings Fellow Saints, I would love for you all to comment on this possible scenario I've been playing with. I'm omitting many details, just trying to get the big picture here, so bear with me. This may be long, but I will try to get to the points I'm making. 1. As a result of a Mid East war (psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38/39 maybe), the future antichrist and others will confirm or make a peace treaty with Israel. There will be reasonable peace finally in that area. One of the terms of this agreement will allow for Israel to rebuild its Temple on the Mount. This will also allow for all religions to share and use the Temple Mount as they see fit. The AC will not be revealed at this point and will not running things, just present and perhaps obvious by seeking Philadelphia Christians. Daniels last 70th week commences. I believe the Great Harlot of Rev 17 will be very important during this time riding the NWO. 2. At the midpoint of this week, the AC will be possessed by the Evil One and will finally arise and seek to be glorified. The False prophet will be by his side performing many signs and wonders to support this evil dude. This will result in Antiochus Ephihanes Part 2. This abomination of desolation will commence the GREAT TRIBULATION. 3. This abomination basically commences the opening of the seals, trumpets, and bowls in succession. Thus, I'm thinking, is it possible for the entire 42 month period to contain all of these judgments, but I'm not dogmatic at all regarding the timing of the seals. They may be earlier than the abomination. I would love feedback especially on this point. I also believe the two witnesses will be present to give hope to the world,, but especially the Jews. 4. Of course, Saints will now be persecuted and the AC economic buying plan will go into effect. I believe God will divinely protect the Philadelphia christians, but not by rapture, but rather by putting a hedge around them somehow (don't ask me, I haven't thought through that enough). 5. The 6th seal will then result in the rapture, and I haven't a clue how long after the abomination this will occur, but I do know this is why Rev 7 says "they (raptured saints) came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION. " 6. Immediately after the rapture, the Day of the Lord occurs, and God unleashes his wrath, not mans wrath. Of course, God promised the true church they would be spared his wrath, so the true church is now gone, while the pretenders remain to get it right with God. The 144,000 Jews are sealed after the 6th seal so they too are protected. Bozrah, Jordan will be the place for Jews to go and hide and wait things out. 7. Basically, once the seals, trumpets, and bowls play out, Christ will then return to defeat Satan and the AC at Armageddon and to establish his Millenium Kingdom. The three evil Trinity will be imprisoned, and then we turn our attention to the sheep and goat judgment taking place. Those people who did not take the mark of the beast and were kind to God's children will be allowed access to the kingdom in their physical bodies. Those who took the mark or were unkind are not allowed in. Bye bye. 8. The true church will help Christ rule on the earth. Christ will rule for 1000 years, Satan will then be released from prison and rally many of the masses to his side again. Another war, same result, we win, he loses, and this time, it is over. The Great White Throne judgment is next, and all the nonbelievers will be judged and cast out. The rest is pure sweetness. Everyone will have a glorified body and we will all live with both Jesus and God the father. So, what do you think? I welcome any feedback, both pro and con. I love to ponder this and I promise I will do so even if you disagree with me. My beliefs are not etched in stone, so I'm always open to receive new teaching. Thanks in love, spock
  5. The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible A short bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 7“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 7“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events: 3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you." Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do. Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church. From 1 Thess chapter 4 Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air. 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent. 2 Thess 2 1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Jesus will come like a thief on unbeleivers, what watchful Christians will know that He is about to come. 1 Thess 5 1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Beleivers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. This has been a brief summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times. I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4 I will end with this thought from the book of Acts: 19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time" Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative
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