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Found 32 results

  1. The bible says that Jesus bore our sin on the Cross, so then, who are we to not believe it. ? After all, if we are born again, then we have now become "the righteousness of Christ", and Jesus "became (our) sin". 2nd Corinthians 5:21, and what is also amazing, is that its God His Father that "made" this all happen. Here is a pretzel.....God is Jesus on the Cross, sending Himself down from Heaven, to Die as a Man. In John 1:10, Jesus was "standing on the earth HE CREATED", = "God said, LET THERE BE", in Genesis....... and this is JESUS now standing on it, and soon He was going to be hanging between the earth and sky that HE Created with.... words....and Jesus is the WORD ..... made flesh. On the Cross, Jesus is not just dying for sin, He literally became sin. I'll show you somehting else that is pretty interesting, as maybe you've not thought this or been shown it before... You all know this verse...... "we are not UNDER the Law but we are UNDER Grace". In other words, the reason for the Law....is that the law shows us our sinfulness, as this is the purpose of it, which then leads us to the One who dies for them on the Cross, gives us His Righteousness......you know, (Salvation). But notice this.... our NT says that the LAW was abolished, being NAILED to the Cross. Colossians 2:14 Now this does not mean the law and the 10 C's are no longer behavioral lifestyle guides regarding our Christian Discipleship, sure...but what it means is that because Jesus fulfilled the law in our place, the law now has no authority to judge us as sinners. Remember, God's law does this, not Jesus, not God. This is why Jesus never JUDGED any one, He always said. "sins are forgiven", "go thy way"...etc..... as that is why HE CAME, whereas the Law can not do this, it can only judge you to be a sinner, based on ITSELF as it reveals God's morally righteous moral code. So, Jesus abolished the law (took away its power to judge us as sinners), which is why Romans 4:8 has to be understood fully or Salvation can't be completely accepted or understood as it is meant to be, in both cases. So, there is Jesus, dying on the cross, and where is the Law that is abolished and NAILED to the Cross with him?? Its nailed. Where? Its above his HEAD. He is UNDER THE LAW, on the Cross, DYING. And we are NOT UNDER IT< because He died under it for us. "You are not UNDER the Law but under GRACE , <. see that? = Because Jesus is UNDER IT, on the Cross. He took away its power to JUDGE a born again believer. His death FINISHED not only our Eternal Redemption, but it also forever eliminated the Law's Legal right to judge us as SINNERS. <B><
  2. Gospel : Paul teaching = "preaching of the Cross". "we preach Christ Crucified"..."Jesus sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel".."faith comes by hearing this"..... So, all that, if believed by an unbeliever resolves an eternal issue...... What is the issue? What is God's purpose for coming to earth to die as Jesus The Christ on a Cross? What is He doing?...What is He alone solving, that all our 10 commandment keeping and holy lifestyle can never solve, which is WHY HE had to solve it? ? And right here is what is so often misunderstood, or not taught correctly, and this is why so many people who mean well, and love Jesus, or would like to love him, do not understand <>WHAT IS<> the actual reason that God came here to die. So what is that reason? The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God.. And here is the "catch 22".... It also can't AFTER you are saved. And right here is where "Legalism vs Grace" becomes the touchstone of constant fighting on forums, and everywhere else that it can show up where believers WILL clash. (Apparently this clash became such a long standing fight and fury on this forum that members here are barred from posting- fighting about it.) It is a fact and statement of the CROSS that the law and the 10 Commandments can't make you righteous, they can only show you that you are unrighteous., as that is the actual purpose of the Law, as well as outlining what God expects regarding our basic moral conduct & behavior, once we are born again. So, how can it be that half the body of Christ is trying to keep all this, all these works, and they believe that this is "keeping them saved". Whereas the other half of the body of Christ is trusting in Jesus to keep them saved. So, do you see the line in the sand? Its this " What is keeping you SAVED"....that is the minefield of theological confusion. THATS the fight. Legalism vs Grace. Its happening on every forum like this one, and its the reason for 5000 denominations that don't agree, and 300 bibles that don't agree. This issue started with Paul and his preaching of "justification by Faith" >alone, and he wrote the letter to the Galatians that talks about it, and explains it. 2000 yrs later, this issue of Legalism vs Grace is still a fist fight between those who say they are "Christians". Isn't it interesting to realize that if the 10 commandments, or lawkeeping, or living holy, could save you or keep you saved, if that were the truth, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself some PAIN..... But ita not the case. Now im not certain what you have been taught, but i teach that you "present your body a living sacrifice" and you to "live holy as God is holy", not to save yourself or keep yourself saved, but because this is what you should do, and what God expects, .. because you ARE saved. The Legalist would argue that .."no, you do it to stay saved", and if you don't then you're not. I wonder, reader, what you believe. So, leaving all that now, lets just look at the problem that God had to come here and solve for us, as to look at this, is to understand the reason for Salvation which is to understand Salvation. Our problem we had, before we were saved, is only one thing, one issue only. And God Himself had to solve it, because we can't. We are born, and we get older, and we don't have any righteousness. None. And so, God can't accept us, because we are UNRIGHTEOUS. This is "lost", "unsaved"....hellbound = we don't have any RIGHTEOUSNESS< as all of ours, are "filthy rags". So, in steps SALVATION... Down from Heaven God as The Christ arrives... The Cross has been raised.... As God bleeding out on the "tree" has come down from Heaven to give us HIS righteousness so that He can accept us, based on THAT.......and for no other reason will He accept you, or me. God, literally became a man, and died on a Cross, to GIVE US "the righteousness of Christ". (God's very own righteousness). And that is what salvation actually is....Its God coming to earth to give us His righteousness so that HE can accept us, as by giving us His very righteousness, this makes us acceptable to God. Welcome to Salvation. Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours. A born again person, has literally BECOME "the righteousness of Christ", and Christ is GOD. To say that God's Grace is amazing, is really the least of what it is... How can you describe the wonder of God, dying to give you His righteousness in place of your unrighteousness, as a free Gift? Is there a word that can even claim to honor this spiritual transaction enough? Just one. LOVE. Agape` Love. God is LOVE blessings, <B><
  3. I have been studying eschatology for more than 30 years now. Originally I believed in a pre-tribulation rapture because frankly it was the only view I had ever heard. One day I was listening to the radio and heard a man mentioning the fact that there were other views on the topic. This got my curiosity up and I decided to study the Bible myself and see if I could discover what the Bible itself actually taught about these things. I was really serious about it. The method I chose to employ was to read the Bible from Genesis through the Book of Revelation and write down every verse or passage that I believed spoke to the issue of the timing of the sequence of the Rapture of the Church with respect to the Great Tribulation. This took me eight months to accomplish. Once I had all of my notes, I copied them onto Post-it notes so that I could arrange them in a chronological sequence if something in the verse or passage had a clue about the order in which it fit with respect to the other verses and passages. This was done on a 4' x 8' sheet of particleboard laid out on a folding table. I tell you this in case you want to try this yourselves sometime to let you know what it takes and what you will be in for. My wife died recently and I myself am aging and have had some recent health issues. This has brought into focus the fact that my own time on earth may be limited. Actually this is true of every one of us, no one knows the time of their own death. You could have a stroke, or be in a car accident tomorrow. In Eschatology, the study of the last things, we usually think in terms of things prophesied in the Bible that are yet to come. Things like the Rapture of the Church, the Great Tribulation, the Second Coming of Jesus, Armageddon, the Millennium, these sorts of things. While many of us believe that Jesus could come at any moment, few of us really live as though we expect that to happen. We understand that it has been about 2000 years so far, and that casts some doubt our hearts and minds about whether he will really come today or tomorrow or even in a week or this year. Though I have always realized intellectually that my personal time on earth, my own life, could end in a moment, it is the events of this last year but it made me thoughtfully confront the reality of my limited time. What this means then is that no matter how delayed Jesus second coming might be, I will likely be face-to-face with Jesus within 10 or 20 years. Eschatology is then therefore not limited to the study of the last things predicted in the Bible, but we each have our own personal last days which are contained within our natural lifespans. Some people say that if it is true that Jesus will not be coming back until after the great tribulation that that removes the motivation to live as we should so that we will be found doing what we should be doing when he does return. I want to say to you that if that is what you think: "Shame on you!" The motivation to live correctly should not be a concern to not be caught failing to live as we should be living when Jesus comes at the end of the age. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins. Gratefulness for our undeserved salvation should be more than enough motivation to live within the will of God without concern of the question of when Jesus will return. When we are not living correctly, we have already been 'caught'. The Holy Spirit is inside us if we are believers. God is omnipresent. Whatever we do, we drag Jesus with us. Nothing we do, nothing we say, nothing we think, goes unnoticed by God. So I think then, that for those of us who think that a pre-tribulation rapture of the church is a motivation to live rightly, with that thinking we are inclining ourselves to living wrongly. Rather than to live holy lives out of the gratitude we have for what Jesus has done for us - rather than live as dedicated servants who owe him everything - rather than realize that we are not our own but have been purchased - some of us shamefully take his grace as a license to sin because we know we have been forgiven. We live worldly lives because we think in our hearts that our master is delaying his return, even while we say with our lips He might return at any moment. Those of us who think and act in this manner are self deceived and we are hypocrites. In June of 2014, a couple months ago as I write this, I had the great privilege of delivering a sort of eulogy at my wife's memorial service. Gathered there were friends and family some of whom are believers, some who were not, and some who think they are believers and don't even understand what the difference is. It had been on my wife's heart for years that many of her family were likely destined to suffer in eternity. I know that like me, she was dissatisfied with the fact that it is easy to avoid speaking of spiritual things with loved ones because it feels awkward. Personally I feel shame that I have too often avoided that awkwardness and instead of demonstrating love by informing people of their peril, I have been willing to risk their eternal destiny for the sake of my temporary comfort . This is a great sin and I confess that as such and am attempting to repent of it. The eulogy I gave was the first significant step in telling people to re-examine their hearts and their lives and their need of salvation from their sins . This had been on my mind for years but having so many people as a captive audience at a time when the temporary nature of life was so obvious, was an opportunity that could not be passed up. What I was saying then was not just a recap of my wife's life, it was an expression of things that she had left unsaid. Confronting the fact that no matter how long it is before Jesus returns, it is true that we all have limited time left. So I realized that there are two kinds of the end times. There is the near-term end time which is represented by our limited lifespans, and there is the end times for mankind itself which began while Jesus still walked the earth and which we are in today as well. Both types of end times carry the same implications. Time is short, and there is a dying world out there that needs to understand that. Jesus himself near the end of his life told us to go out into the world and to preach the gospel to everyone. This was not a suggestion. Not just a nice idea. It's not optional. It is a command to every believer. Failing to do this is disobedience. It is sin. It is unloving. Penn Gillette, a self-professed atheist, said to the effect: "How much do you have to hate someone to believe that eternal life is possible and then not tell them how to obtain it?" I think those are pretty profound words on the topic for an atheist. It is too bad so many Christians don't get it. I have been one of them. So, in these last days of my own life I have determined to try to improve in a lot of things, but most specifically two things. The first is to be more active, perhaps even aggressive or at least assertive in evangelism. People need to understand that they are sinners. People need to know that their sin separates them from God. People need to understand that unless Jesus saves them from their sins, that separation from God is a permanent condition. They need to understand that that separation from God is a separation from everything good. Imagine if you will, what it would be like to spend eternity apart from good. Where there is no good, only evil remains. I believe that this concept of hell is accurate. I don't even like to think about it. When I try to imagine it, what I imagine is an eternity of suffering and pain, a despondent existence, a type of suffering worse than anything we have yet experienced in our lives while all the time knowing that this condition will be never ending and could have been avoided. What if life was so bad, that you never wanted to awaken, and you could never fall asleep again? If I really consider this all I can do is loathe my own evil and selfish heart, and at the same time feel an indebtedness and gratitude for the Savior who spares me from the eternity that I deserve and am apparently willing to let others earn for themselves. So, evangelism it is. I have to tell people. If I don't, I am a morally hideous monster. We do not need to have any special calling on our life to be ministers of the gospel. Where are all supposed to be evangelists. We do not have to wait for a leading of the Spirit to talk to a person about these things. We have already been told to just do it. Thing is when we realize what is at stake, we should not even have to be told. So then, the most important task that I have in my last days, the thing that I really want to be found doing when Jesus returns or when I go to be with Him if His return is delayed, it is to be telling others about God's love for them in the person of Jesus Christ who suffered and died for their sins to spare them from an eternity separated from God's love and goodness and filled with despair. When Jesus told us to go out into the world and preach the gospel to every creature he did not say to limit ourselves to evangelism. The purpose of evangelism is to make disciples, to make other followers of Jesus, and to teach them everything he taught us. One of the areas that Jesus taught about, that His apostles taught about, and that both Testaments of the Bible speak about frequently, are the end times and especially about warnings not to be deceived in them. So, because I have spent so much of the last three decades studying this area of Scripture, and because there are so many warnings not to be deceived, I feel a special responsibility to obey Jesus and tell other disciples about this topic because some are underinformed while others are deceived. I may at times sound arrogant due to the confidence I have in my understanding of eschatology, the study of the last things. I admit it, I am opinionated, passionate, and confident. When you put those three things together in one person, you have qualities which others may consider to be arrogance, maybe it is. Nevertheless I cannot in good conscience fail to attempt to pass on what I believe I have learned. I have been preparing questions for a trivia game on the topic of eschatology. While doing this I have been studying and reading the writings of others whose views are different than my own. There is one theologian in particular widely regarded as the foremost scholar on his particular viewpoint of eschatology. I have always had great respect for this man even though I disagree with him. He does deserve respect for his love of the Savior and his hard work and dedication to study. This is true of a lot of ordinary Christians as well. However after just having reviewed one of his books, I am finding so many unfounded presumptions, and faulty exercises and logic, that although I may respect his hard work, I have to reject his conclusions. Maybe I really am arrogant. However, even though I know this is redundant, I have to follow my convictions and make disciples, teaching them everything that Jesus taught his first disciples to teach other disciples in an ongoing chain until his return. Perhaps with this you can understand my focus. I hope that you can be patient with me while I am living out my faith and while the process of my own sanctification continues. I urge you, to also consider the shortness of time and make efforts to reach out to those you come in contact with and make a few disciples yourselves. Thanks for listening.
  4. Behold

    John 3:16 = OSAS

    John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS. They are the same. God's Grace is OSAS John 3:16 is OSAS Let me show you. Lets study this together. So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth. Here is what it really means... OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved. We are KEPT saved by What saved Us. = We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6 Hebrews 12:2 OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved. Thats it. Thats what it means. And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life." This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others. So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it. John 3:16........."For God so love the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son. So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, to the WORLD, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God. So then.. He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so Love the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED". Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life". Listen Saint... Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY. "Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE"..... See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again. Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now = OSAS. Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW. You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now. Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW. Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW". Know what? What does John want you to KNOW? ? ? That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE. HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now. So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ? This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT. The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved. Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you. = OSAS. blessings, <dw><
  5. Is watching certain movies with swear words and saying swear words a serious sin? Will I go to hell for it?
  6. Every now and then I can use a bit of confirmation that I'm doing the right things that Jesus ordered, as you may have noticed. That the signs point in the right direction, with an eye on the afterlife i.e. the Real Life. In my working life I developed a lot of 'scorecards' and now I found an interesting one that estimates or simulates no less than the future of my soul: Heaven or hell? All a bit presumptuous maybe, and I therefore really hope that this Achille Christian guy has thought very very well about the 40 questions an angel asks me in this 'game'. With God's Mercy set to 50% I'm going to Heaven all right. I'll have to try with 100% and 0%. For Roman Catholics, purgatory was optionally included. Maybe somebody on this forum is willing to make the effort of checking if the questions make good sense (I think reproducing the list here is not allowed). We still won't see the actual weighting, though. I saw a free version with 15 questions.
  7. At some times I can use a bit of confirmation that I'm doing the right things that Jesus ordered, as you may have noticed. That the signs point in the right direction, with an eye on the afterlife i.e. the Real Life. In my working life I developed a lot of 'scorecards' and now I found an interesting one that estimates or simulates no less than the future of my soul: Heaven or hell? All a bit presumptuous maybe, and I therefore really hope that this Achille Christian guy has thought very very well about the 40 questions an angel asks me in this 'game'. With God's Mercy set to 50% I'm going to Heaven all right. I'll have to try with 100% and 0%. For Roman Catholics, purgatory was optionally included. Maybe somebody on this forum is willing to make the effort of checking if the questions make good sense (I think reproducing the list here is not allowed). We still won't see the actual weighting, though.
  8. I would not be surprized if this video is not already in here, but I figured it was faster to make a new post, that to find one here. I wanted to be able to make reference to this in another thread, so here it is:
  9. Not everyone subscribes to the idea that Hell is an eternal torture camp. Some say the fires of hell are eternal but the unsaved actually do what the Bible says they do. They perish.They cease to exist. Satan will endure eternal torment.Satan is responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened on this planet.Stubbed ties, crucifixions and everything in- between.He should get more of a punishment than the average “ good guy” religionists I would think. I could be wrong.Could make for a good debate...
  10. I have heard that many Christians do not believe that hell is real. I found this to be absurd, but I am open to hearing both sides of the argument. So that is what has lead me to proposing this question, is Hell real? If it is or is not please explain. P.S. I for one do believe it exist. Sorry for the pun in the poll but is just too much for me to resist.
  11. I just came from a thread which got me to thinking about the disagreements about Hell in those who claim to be Christians. I have always believed that Jesus dying to redeem us from a real, eternal Hell is a necessary part of the gospel. It is surprising to me as to why a Christian could think otherwise. So I found an article from www.gotquestions.org, which I will copy and paste. If anyone wants to comment, feel free. All I ask is that things be respectful. Thanks. Note: I just thought it was an interesting matter. If anyone out there happens to know the original languages our scriptures come from, I hope you will weigh in as to whether this article is accurate. I will post it on the next page, as this intro is getting long.
  12. Please forgive me. I have been addressing you all wrong. I cannot claim a righteous anger defence [11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you-who are you to judge your neighbor? - James 4:11-12 New International Version (NIV)]. God wants better. I cannot scare you into heaven anymore than I can drag out of hell. God is in control. He makes and lets everything happen. All has and will happen for Christians' good [28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose. - Romans 8:28 (NIV)]. My questionable Facebook activity has led to this apology and following testimony. May it encourage you and give you hope. Praise God. Jesus Christ saved me from homosexual tendencies [10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine - 1 Timothy 1:10 (NIV)]. In my dark past I flirted with ideas, the scene and foreplay of man on man sexual relations. In the moment of those times it was a distraction and escape from my living hell. Such activity always had bad consequences [35 "Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution." - Ezekiel 23:35 (NIV)]. Yet like a nicotine addiction I was drawn back to get lost in that fleeting moment of oblivion. It and I was miserable. I will not give details here and now publicly. In person I am happy to answer questions and share Christ's solution with you. Praise God. I love you. I care for your well being. My half life of suffering has grown great compassion and empathy. I weep and mourn for the lost, rejected, down trodden and oppressed, spit upon and left for dead. I know and understand because I was there as one of them. Now I am found, nurtured, lifted up and suffering gladly only because of Jesus Christ [17 But I will restore you to health and heal your wounds,' declares the Lord, 'because you are called an outcast, Zion for whom no one cares.' - Jeremiah 30:17 (NIV)]. Praise God. He saved me from my living hell involving depression, drugs, marijuana, alcoholism, willful sin, pornography, homosexual tendencies, the occult, blasphemy, loneliness, numbness and people who accepted this and let it persist [3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do-living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. - 1 Peter 4:3 (NIV)]. Now I am healed, restored, alive and well because I believe and am born again. I bear much fruit and look forward to a bright future in Christ. I will never return to the enemy. It pains me to look back or even be reminded of such serious suffering. I am sorry for your suffering. I am sorry I made you suffer. I continue to repent. Life is good to wake up to eternally because of the Son of God, my personal Saviour, our Lord [12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." - Acts 4:12 (NIV)]. Thank God.
  13. A few years ago I was really struggling with OCD in the form of obsessing over worrying about getting HIV. I was worried about getting it even in mundane everyday living sort of ways, like a bug flying in my eye for example. I'd been tested multiple times within a year and was losing my mind over worrying about it. After saying it was the last time I'd get tested so many times, I decided to try to force myself to stop getting tested for stupid reasons. So, I promised God I wouldn't get tested unless it was a real risk and if I broke this promise to send not just me to hell, but everyone I loved too. I actually dared God to do it in a really maniacal way. I think you know where this is going... I had an incident a couple weeks later in which there was some extremely small likelihood of risk and a couple people on forums recommended getting tested. I know almost all doctors would've said there's essentially zero risk in this situation, but I knew there was an absurdly unlikely possibility of it. So, I went and got tested, feeling that it satisfied the caveat built in to my promise that it was possibly a legitimate risk. Fast forward a few months to when I returned to Canada after living abroad for 2 years. HIV was still occupying 1/2 of my waking thoughts, so I decided that I'd get tested one last time and then only allow myself a test once a year from then on out or something. And, at the time I figured since I'd basically already broken my promise I may as well get tested even though there was no legitimate concern I had HIV, just wild OCD fuelled paranoia. So, I got this test and then from there I was able to slowly make my tests more and more infrequent. But in the process of doing so I broke a promise to God in which I dared him to send me and my loved ones to hell. Now I'm left wondering if I should try not to love anyone in my life; no kids, no wife, push away friends and family, etc. Because isn't there now a possibility God will follow through on that? If so, I am literally causing the eternal suffering of everyone I care about. So, isn't it worth it for me to live a miserable life alone & empty inside instead of potentially causing this everlasting harm? What is the best & right thing for me to do in this terrible, stupid situation? What does the bible say, if anything, about this kind of thing? Is God not quite vengeful in the Old Testament? Please no answers just trying to make me feel better, I actually want to do what's right here, even if it means killing myself. Thanks, Terrible Selfish Idiot.
  14. If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die? I can provide an example if requested.
  15. "All for Today" I wandered the streets naked hearing only the beats of my heart overflowing with a sixth sense of urgency; emergency; clergymen; demons; I fainted. Time had ceased. My mind was creased. Cursed with the truth, the lies twisted my hindsight; the sight lit my foresight and the now was one huge stooge ready to fall. It was a desperate call and I knew not who to listen to or who to tell, my apparently tortured loneliness was living hell. I eventually landed in a psychiatric ward where all my kin were studied as a backwards horde. The call was still ringing in my ears but I was stuck in tangents of a concentration camp. The antics of my fellow prisoners of war only proved to me I was in on the score and was losing; missing in action with only my (innocent of the facts) family to protect me. That was a decade ago now and how I came through is miraculous. ...yet that time is not written off, it still haunts me to this day, a reality I rarely speak of... and that is all I will burden you with today. -Gregory KJ Brumwell 2004
  16. I read the entire "Christian's going to hell" thread and was about to jump in with my own reply. I did not realize the limitations of this forum section. I suppose that is fine. I got a lot out of what was discussed but still struggle with some of it. I get all the points of views, proof, beliefs and such. I am not trying to call out or trap anyone. I am a baby Christian and have honest questions for clarification. I pray we can all come to an agreement on God's word and truth. I was hoping we could base the discussion on Matthew 25 ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25&version=NIV ) and how it related to the thread I could not jump in on. My question is this. Does Matthew 25 add or take away from any and all posts made there by *everyone*? I have more specific questions too. The ten virgins for starters, do they not represent Christians covered in the blood of Jesus? I am not clear on the oil in their lamps as well. I suppose it could relate to my above general question. I am wrestling with all this. I believe I am a born again Christian. I have faith in my salvation. I am concerned about others I care for and love. I will elaborate and add more enquiries as this thread develops. May opportunities open to know and understand the Holy Trinity better. Be well, content and helpful in the Lord.
  17. Not everyone subscribes to the idea that Hell is an eternal torture camp. Some say the fires of hell are eternal but the unsaved actually do what the Bible says they do. They perish.They cease to exist. Satan will endure eternal torment.Satan is responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened on this planet.Stubbed ties, crucifixions and everything in- between.He should get more of a punishment than the average “ good guy” religionists I would think. I could be wrong.Could make for a good debate....maybe I’ll start a new thread.
  18. KiwiChristian

    Hell.

    HELL In the New Testament, 162 passages speak about unrepentant people going to hell, and 70 of these were described by Jesus, as he warned people to avoid it. When the unsaved die, they go immediately to hell. Later, at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth, the unsaved will leave hell, receive their resurrected bodies, go to the Great White Throne Judgment and will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they remain forever (Revelation 20:11-15). I. FOUR BIBLE WORDS THAT DESCRIBE HELL: 1. GEHENNA1067 referred to the continually burning rubbish dump on the south west side of Jerusalem, known as the valley of the sons of Hinnom (or Tophet). Jesus used the word "Gehenna" to describe the place of everlasting punishment because hell is a place of filth and stink, a place of smoke and pain, a place of everlasting fire and suffering. This garbage dump was likened to hell. It is used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment of the lost. It occurs twelve times in the New Testament. It is the ultimate hell of fire. It is the same as the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14,15). Matthew 5:22 “whosoever shall say, “Thou fool”, shall be in danger of hell fire” (gehenna of the fire). Matthew 5:29 “And if thy right eye offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 5:30 “And if thy right hand offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 10:28 “...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (gehenna). Matthew 18:9 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna). Matthew 23:15 “Pharisees, ... ye make him twofold more the child of hell (gehenna) than yourselves.” Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents,... how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (gehenna). Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, ... two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:45 “And if thy foot offend thee, ... two feet to be cast into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:47 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna of fire). Luke 12:5 “Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell” (gehenna). James 3:6 “the tongue is ... set on fire of hell” (set on fire by gehenna). 2. HADES86 is the intermediate state between death and the ultimate hell (gehenna), the Lake of Fire. It is where unsaved departed spirits reside. Luke 16:23. Hades never denotes the physical grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost. Hades occurs 10 times in the New Testament, and Sheol, the Old Testament equivalent occurs 59 times. Hades is associated with privation, detention and just punishment of the unsaved dead. Matthew 11:23 “Thou, Capernaum...shalt be brought down to hell” (hades). Luke 10:15 Hades here expresses Capernaum's absolute overthrow, from pride to humiliation. Matthew 16:18 “The gates of hell (hades) shall not prevail against it” (the churches’ attack). Luke 16:19-31 “And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torments931 (punishment)” v.23. Hades here has two compartments, close to each other, yet different. Acts 2:27 “Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades).” Acts 2:31 “That his (Christ's) soul was not left in hell (hades).” Christ here descended into the underworld of the departed (Ephesians 4:9,10), to take the believers in it (eg: thief on the cross) up to heaven. Believers now go to heaven at death, while unbelievers still go to hades at death, a place of punishment. Revelation 1:18 “I (Christ) ... have the keys of hell (hades) and of death.” Revelation 6:8 “a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell (hades) followed with him.” Hades here is personified as the temporary destiny of the unsaved. Revelation 20:13 “death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them.” Revelation 20:14 “death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire.” Note: Fire is used 27 times in the New Testament to describe the after-death punishment of unbelievers and of demons. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Matthew 13:42, 50 “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.” Matthew 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43,45,47 “cast into fire unquenchable, hell fire.” Isaiah 66:24 “... look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me, for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched.” Mark9:44,46,48. Isaiah 33:14 “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with the everlasting burnings?” Matthew 18:8 “Two hands or two feet be cast into everlasting fire.” Matthew 25:41 “Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Jude 7 “Sodom and Gomorrha ... an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (Literally: of fire eternal, the penalty undergoing). Revelation 19:20 “Beast, .. false prophet, ... and them that worshipped his image. These were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.” Revelation 20:10 “the devil ... shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” (for the ages of the ages). Revelation 20:14,15 and Rev. 21:8 “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 14:10,11 “tormented with fire and brimstone ... the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever (for ages of ages), and they have no rest (respite) day nor night...” 3. SHEOL7585 is hades of the Old Testament. In Hebrew, it means the depth, abyss, pit, world of the dead, underworld. It occurs 66 times in the Old Testament (grave 31 times, hell 30 times, pit 3 times). Though all Old Testament people went to the grave, the souls of some will receive punishment in sheol. Numbers 16:30 “Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down into the pit.” Psalm 9:17 “The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol).” 4. TARTARUS5020 is the deepest abyss of Hades; a place where evil angels are imprisoned in torment, awaiting judgment and everlasting punishment. 2 Peter 2:4 is its only reference in the Bible. “If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.” II. WHAT IS HELL (GEHENNA and HADES) LIKE? 1. UNQUENCHABLE FIRE: “He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matthew 3:12. Hell “fire” is real “fire” because the same Greek word (pur) for fire is used for both. “It rained fire and brimstone...” Matthew 17:15 and Luke 17:29. The rich man in hades said: “I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:24. 2. MEMORY AND REGRET. Abraham said to the rich man in hades “remember” in Luke 16:25. Lost people will remember their sins and the times that they rejected the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sins and their need for Jesus Christ to be their Saviour. They will remember how Christians told them the plan of salvation. 3. THIRST. The rich man in hell begged Abraham to “send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue” (Luke 16:24), yet this was refused. Imagine going without water for one day, let alone for eternity without water. Jesus Christ offers in John 7:37, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.” 4. SEPARATION. People in hell will experience a “great gulf” (Luke 16:26) between them and God. They took all the good things of life for granted when they were on earth. They will be forever separated from all the good gifts of God. Many unbelievers joke that “I won't be lonely in hell, as all my friends will be there.” Friendship means nothing under everlasting torment. 5. INJUSTICE AND FILTHINESS OF SIN are in hell. Revelation 22:11. “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy let him be filthy still.” No one likes people treating them unjustly, nor do people like being abused in a filthy manner. The unsaved will experience these conditions forever in hell. 6. HOPELESSNESS FOR ALL ETERNITY. Hell is the everlasting dwelling place of the unsaved. Sooner or later they will realise that they are in hell to stay there forever, with no escape. In Luke 16:26, Abraham told the rich man in hell: “They which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us.” 7. STINK OF SULPHUR. “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (sulphur); which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8. 8. EYESIGHT, HEARING, TOUCH, TASTE AND SMELL are senses that people possess in hell. The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 could “see” Abraham, “hear” his voice, “touch” the flames, desire to “taste” water, and “smell” the sulphur. Revelation 21:8. 9. THE DEVIL and DEMON ANGELS will accompany the Christ rejecters forever. 10. UNSATISFIED DESIRES. Both of the rich man's requests were denied in Luke 16:19-31. He requested a drop of water to cool his tongue, and for Lazarus to return to tell his five unsaved brothers how to be saved and avoid hell. Both requests were denied. How many times a day do you want something and get it? In hell, no one ever gets what they want. 11. PLACE OF WORMS. “Where their worm dieth not...” Mark 9:44,46,48. Worm means maggot. If the maggots do not die, and the people own the maggots, then neither do the people die or get annihilated in hell. 12. TORMENT and PUNISHMENT. “In hell, he lift up his eyes being in torments.” Luke 16:23. 13. SHAME and HATRED. “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. People suffering in hell will get a resurrection body. They will be judged, and sent to the lake of fire in shame at their sins. They will experience everlasting contempt, hating their situation forever. 14. DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. “It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement, than for that city.” Mark 6:11. Those who reject Christ most often, will receive greater punishment. Matthew 10:15. 15. WEEPING, WAILING, GNASHING OF TEETH. “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12 and 13:49,50. People who today are arrogant, proud Christ-rejecters will be wailing and gnashing their teeth in hell. 16. HADES IS IN THE EARTH. Amos 9:2 “though they dig into hell ...”, Isaiah 14:9 “hell from beneath”, Ephesians 4:9 “descended into lower parts of earth”, Numbers 16:33 “they went down alive into the pit”, Psalm 63:9 “those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.” 17. HELL IS ORIGINALLY PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS “Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41. How does one get to hell? By neglecting to receive Christ as Saviour. Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?” How does one avoid hell? By receiving Christ as their Saviour. John 1:12. Christians should work harder to rescue people from hell, and seek to build their church to better achieve this task, both at home and overseas. Question 1: Does “hell” mean “grave” where good and bad must go? Answer: No, because in Luke 16:19-31 both men went to the grave, but the soul of Lazarus was comforted, and the soul of the rich man was tormented. Question 2: How can a loving God send people to hell? Answer: People send themselves to hell by rejecting Christ. God is loving in sending Christ to die for our sins, but God is just in punishing sin. III. JESUS' STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS in Luke 16:19-31. An unbelieving rich man who had abundant material possessions and food in this life, died and went to hell. A believing poor man named Lazarus who had nothing in this life but sickness and poverty, died and was carried by the angels into the comfort of paradise. The suffering rich man in hell made two requests of Abraham in paradise: i) To send Lazarus to put one drop of water on his tongue to relieve his suffering. The rich man, who refused to show mercy to Lazarus in need, now begged that Lazarus might show mercy to him in his need (v.24). The rich man declares the greatness of his torment saying: “I am in torment (agony) in this fire (or flame).” v.24. Lesson: Material things have only temporary, not eternal value. Luke 16:25. Abraham responded by calling him “son”. This means that he was a son of Abraham by flesh, not by faith. The rich man trusted his wealth and his physical descent from Abraham for his salvation. Christ showed that neither reason was sufficient for salvation. At death, one's eternal destiny is settled. "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed" (v.26). The rich man could remember his false confidence in wealth, and his wrong devotion to it. This story refutes "soul-sleep", because the rich man and Lazarus were conscious, one enjoying comfort, and the other suffering torment. Note: Hades had two sections: paradise and hell punishment. Jesus emptied the paradise section when He rose from the dead and took the Old Testament believers’ souls to heaven. Eph. 4:8-10; John 20:17. “Torment” is used four times and means sorrow and grief. Abraham gave two reasons why Lazarus could not comfort the rich man: a) The rich man had received his reward (Matthew 6:2,5,16), and he had left God out of his life. b)The great gulf separated them. ii) To send Lazarus back to warn his five brothers. Luke 16:27-31. The rich man did not say: “I'm glad my brothers will come here, we'll have a wonderful time together.” People sometimes say: "I want to go to hell. All my friends will be there." Answer: There is no friendship in hell. Hell is a place of torment and loneliness. Lesson: People in hell have a concern for the lost, but they cannot do anything about it, BUT WE CAN! What are you doing? v.29-31: Abraham said that the only thing that could prevent his five brothers from coming to hell was: Hearing the Word of God, and responding to it by faith in Christ as Saviour. A man named Lazarus did come back from the dead, and some of the Pharisees wanted to kill him (John 11:43-57; 12:10). God had spoken many times to the rich man while on earth: 1. God permitted him to have riches, but not attributing his riches to God’s goodness, he did not repent. “The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.” Romans 2:4-5. 2. Lazarus would have witnessed to him, but his pride rejected Lazarus’ message. 3. Old Testament scriptures spoke to him. 4. Lazarus dying first, should have reminded him how he would also die. In hell he was still self-centred, praying for his comfort and for the safety of his family. He was not concerned about other lost sinners. C.S. Lewis says: “The safest road to hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.” Lessons from the rich man and Lazarus: 1. The souls of men do not die with their bodies. 2. The souls of men are conscious after death, not asleep until resurrected. 3. The righteous at death are taken immediately to a place of happiness and the wicked are sent to a place of misery and torment. 4. Wealth does not protect us from death. 5. We should not envy the rich, as riches can blind us to the reality of eternity. 6. We should seek a better inheritance than this life can give. 7. The sufferings of the wicked in hell will be indescribably great of torment, burning flame, and insatiable thirst, forever. 8. Hell is a place of suffering beyond the grave. If not, this story has no meaning. 9. There will never be any escape from hell. The gulf is fixed. 10. God warns us to prepare for death through: His Word. His Holy Spirit pleading with sinners. His servants. His goodness leading us to repentance. Pleadings of friends. Heaven. If all that would not move sinners, then what would? He threatens hell. 11. God will give us nothing more to warn us. No dead man will return to tell us what he has seen. If he did, no one would believe him. If you will not hear Christ or the Bible, there is nothing you will hear. You will never be persuaded, and you will never escape the place of torment. 12. We see the amazing folly of those wanting to go to hell. They have been deceived. IV. THE IMPLICATIONS OF HELL FOR US TODAY 1. Soul winning is important. When people get angry at a preacher preaching on soul winning, they are doing the devil's work. 2. We need to become fishers of men. Matthew 4:19. 3. If we are busy pulling souls out of the fire, we will not waste our time fighting other Christians. We will seek to maintain unity in our church. 4. We see our Church as of great importance in rescuing people from hell. Rescuing people from hell is a major purpose of churches. 5. Hell focuses our attention on eternity, taking our attention off petty present things like latest worldly fashions which pale into insignificance in the light of lost people going to an eternal hell. 6. Hell makes us train workers to be soul winners. 7. It gives us a love for people to win to Christ and to train in the Bible. 8. It makes us use our time wisely so that all we do helps in some way to rescue people from hell. 9. Hell makes us mission minded so that we try to win lost people to Christ overseas. For example, Roman Catholics in Africa grew from 52 million in 1980 to 92 million in 1993. 10. Hell and eternal judgment is the sixth principle of the Doctrine of Christ, so it must be emphasised in our doctrinal teaching. “the foundation of ……eternal judgment.” Hebrews 6:1,2. 11. Hell will give us a better testimony as Christians. If we sin, people will go to hell. 12. Hell will stop us backsliding because we will realise that our job is important to accomplish in rescuing people from hell. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36. What is your answer to this question? Conclusion Are you really saved? Have you received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, trusting Him alone to save you, not your religion or your good works? If you are saved, then what are you doing to tell people how Jesus Christ can save them from hell?
  19. The Meaning of [eternal] Life All it takes is a short, simple to the point prayer surrendering to Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Be sincere and follow through. God takes care of the rest, you and every need. Remember to pray in Jesus Christ's name, for God's will. Discernment, knowledge and understanding will flow on God's time and limitless ability. Feed yourself with prayer, Christian fellowship, worship, singing praises to the Lord. Immerse yourself in the Holy Bible, God's inspired living word! The enemy will lie, deceive, trick and play all sorts of mind games in an effort to destroy you and your faith. Confess, apologize for, rebuke and repent from every single last sin committed ever. Call on the power, blood and name of Jesus Christ and be saved! Every sin has already been forgiven by God, past, present and future. His Son won over sin, death and hell. His unconditional love is true, pure and perfect. Tell your account to God with forgiveness. Make your life testimony strong. It is never too late. Christ's blood, death and resurrection paid your debt and price. You now belong to Christ, take heart. Your body is a temple. Keep trying and building on the cornerstone of Christ. God bless you and your new eternal life starting immediately, hallelujah, thanks and all glory be to God!
  20. Hi everyone! I have another question. Once we are in heaven will we still be sinners? Some Christians argue that only God is perfect, so yes, we will sin in heaven, for we are not, and never will be, God. Others argue that since it is the spirit that wrestles with the flesh (e.g. the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.) the flesh will be remade during the resurrection and the spirit will be joined to the flesh or something to that effect. Anyway, they argue that since all is remade and made new we will be perfect, or at least, we will never again sin against God or make mistakes, but rather we will be perfect as Christ is perfect. But if that were true, how did Lucifer, who was/is Spirit, rebel and sin against God? Presumably he too was perfect, until his fall from heaven, when he became lifted up in pride. If the angels are perfect and everyone in heaven is perfect, how did Satan sin against God? He was called the "son of the morning".
  21. Shalom, everyone. I think I may have started something like this a year or so ago, but I still feel that it is important to explore and correct, if possible. Down through the last 2,000 years or so, we have made some MAJOR changes to terminology that I believe we as a people once knew and now have changed the meanings of those words into something that is now totally foreign to the first century meanings. Among these words that are so foreign to their original meanings are the following: I believe that we should work toward a paradigm shift back to the original meanings of these words. There are others, of course, that could have been listed, as well, but these are the fundamental ones. And, I believe they are fundamental because to some they are especially "holy words" that "one should not touch" as far as trying to correct their meanings. The major six are the ones in the circle: salvation, gospel, kingdom, Christ, church, and heaven. I started with angel and heaven, but one could start anywhere, because it is truly a "state function." That is, it doesn't matter how you get from point A to point B; it will take you the same amount of time and effort to make the journey. Let me start with a few basics: Will = want. When one asks, "What is God's will for my life?" he or she is actually asking the same thing as "What does God want for my life?" This may break down into more particular questions, like: "What does God want me to do for a living?" "What job does God want me to have?" "Who does God want me to marry?" "Where does God want me to live?" Faith = trust. "To have faith in God," one must learn "to trust God." Connected to this is the adjective and adverb forms of the words: "To be faithful" = "to be trustworthy." When we say, "God is faithful," we are saying that "God is trustworthy!" that is, "He is worthy of our trust!" A "faithful" spouse is a spouse we can trust to be consistently devoted to us. A faithful person or a trusty person is one we can count upon. Faithfulness = trustworthiness. There are certain words that are used in church or in synagogue on Sunday or Shabbat that have SYNONYMOUS COUNTERPARTS in life during the weekdays in other scenarios and workplaces. Let's start with some fun. What are some other words that you use in church that have a different word you've noticed using in secular areas of your life? Let's see how many we can come up with.
  22. Hi I don't understand the Bible easily, but I am going to post a quote from gotquestions.org and ask you to help me understand what "gradated" punishment means HERE, but PLEASE read the verses FIRST. thanks so much. Quote : In addition to fire, the New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13).
  23. HELL In the New Testament, 162 passages speak about unrepentant people going to hell, and 70 of these were described by Jesus, as he warned people to avoid it. When the unsaved die, they go immediately to hell. Later, at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth, the unsaved will leave hell, receive their resurrected bodies, go to the Great White Throne Judgment and will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they remain forever (Revelation 20:11-15). I. FOUR BIBLE WORDS THAT DESCRIBE HELL: 1. GEHENNA1067 referred to the continually burning rubbish dump on the south west side of Jerusalem, known as the valley of the sons of Hinnom (or Tophet). Jesus used the word "Gehenna" to describe the place of everlasting punishment because hell is a place of filth and stink, a place of smoke and pain, a place of everlasting fire and suffering. This garbage dump was likened to hell. It is used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment of the lost. It occurs twelve times in the New Testament. It is the ultimate hell of fire. It is the same as the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14,15). Matthew 5:22 “whosoever shall say, “Thou fool”, shall be in danger of hell fire” (gehenna of the fire). Matthew 5:29 “And if thy right eye offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 5:30 “And if thy right hand offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 10:28 “...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (gehenna). Matthew 18:9 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna). Matthew 23:15 “Pharisees, ... ye make him twofold more the child of hell (gehenna) than yourselves.” Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents,... how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (gehenna). Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, ... two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:45 “And if thy foot offend thee, ... two feet to be cast into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:47 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna of fire). Luke 12:5 “Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell” (gehenna). James 3:6 “the tongue is ... set on fire of hell” (set on fire by gehenna). 2. HADES86 is the intermediate state between death and the ultimate hell (gehenna), the Lake of Fire. It is where unsaved departed spirits reside. Luke 16:23. Hades never denotes the physical grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost. Hades occurs 10 times in the New Testament, and Sheol, the Old Testament equivalent occurs 59 times. Hades is associated with privation, detention and just punishment of the unsaved dead. Matthew 11:23 “Thou, Capernaum...shalt be brought down to hell” (hades). Luke 10:15 Hades here expresses Capernaum's absolute overthrow, from pride to humiliation. Matthew 16:18 “The gates of hell (hades) shall not prevail against it” (the churches’ attack). Luke 16:19-31 “And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torments931 (punishment)” v.23. Hades here has two compartments, close to each other, yet different. Acts 2:27 “Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades).” Acts 2:31 “That his (Christ's) soul was not left in hell (hades).” Christ here descended into the underworld of the departed (Ephesians 4:9,10), to take the believers in it (eg: thief on the cross) up to heaven. Believers now go to heaven at death, while unbelievers still go to hades at death, a place of punishment. Revelation 1:18 “I (Christ) ... have the keys of hell (hades) and of death.” Revelation 6:8 “a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell (hades) followed with him.” Hades here is personified as the temporary destiny of the unsaved. Revelation 20:13 “death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them.” Revelation 20:14 “death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire.” Note: Fire is used 27 times in the New Testament to describe the after-death punishment of unbelievers and of demons. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Matthew 13:42, 50 “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.” Matthew 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43,45,47 “cast into fire unquenchable, hell fire.” Isaiah 66:24 “... look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me, for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched.” Mark9:44,46,48. Isaiah 33:14 “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with the everlasting burnings?” Matthew 18:8 “Two hands or two feet be cast into everlasting fire.” Matthew 25:41 “Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Jude 7 “Sodom and Gomorrha ... an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (Literally: of fire eternal, the penalty undergoing). Revelation 19:20 “Beast, .. false prophet, ... and them that worshipped his image. These were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.” Revelation 20:10 “the devil ... shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” (for the ages of the ages). Revelation 20:14,15 and Rev. 21:8 “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 14:10,11 “tormented with fire and brimstone ... the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever (for ages of ages), and they have no rest (respite) day nor night...” 3. SHEOL7585 is hades of the Old Testament. In Hebrew, it means the depth, abyss, pit, world of the dead, underworld. It occurs 66 times in the Old Testament (grave 31 times, hell 30 times, pit 3 times). Though all Old Testament people went to the grave, the souls of some will receive punishment in sheol. Numbers 16:30 “Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down into the pit.” Psalm 9:17 “The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol).” 4. TARTARUS5020 is the deepest abyss of Hades; a place where evil angels are imprisoned in torment, awaiting judgment and everlasting punishment. 2 Peter 2:4 is its only reference in the Bible. “If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.” II. WHAT IS HELL (GEHENNA and HADES) LIKE? 1. UNQUENCHABLE FIRE: “He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matthew 3:12. Hell “fire” is real “fire” because the same Greek word (pur) for fire is used for both. “It rained fire and brimstone...” Matthew 17:15 and Luke 17:29. The rich man in hades said: “I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:24. 2. MEMORY AND REGRET. Abraham said to the rich man in hades “remember” in Luke 16:25. Lost people will remember their sins and the times that they rejected the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sins and their need for Jesus Christ to be their Saviour. They will remember how Christians told them the plan of salvation. 3. THIRST. The rich man in hell begged Abraham to “send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue” (Luke 16:24), yet this was refused. Imagine going without water for one day, let alone for eternity without water. Jesus Christ offers in John 7:37, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.” 4. SEPARATION. People in hell will experience a “great gulf” (Luke 16:26) between them and God. They took all the good things of life for granted when they were on earth. They will be forever separated from all the good gifts of God. Many unbelievers joke that “I won't be lonely in hell, as all my friends will be there.” Friendship means nothing under everlasting torment. 5. INJUSTICE AND FILTHINESS OF SIN are in hell. Revelation 22:11. “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy let him be filthy still.” No one likes people treating them unjustly, nor do people like being abused in a filthy manner. The unsaved will experience these conditions forever in hell. 6. HOPELESSNESS FOR ALL ETERNITY. Hell is the everlasting dwelling place of the unsaved. Sooner or later they will realise that they are in hell to stay there forever, with no escape. In Luke 16:26, Abraham told the rich man in hell: “They which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us.” 7. STINK OF SULPHUR. “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (sulphur); which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8. 8. EYESIGHT, HEARING, TOUCH, TASTE AND SMELL are senses that people possess in hell. The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 could “see” Abraham, “hear” his voice, “touch” the flames, desire to “taste” water, and “smell” the sulphur. Revelation 21:8. 9. THE DEVIL and DEMON ANGELS will accompany the Christ rejecters forever. 10. UNSATISFIED DESIRES. Both of the rich man's requests were denied in Luke 16:19-31. He requested a drop of water to cool his tongue, and for Lazarus to return to tell his five unsaved brothers how to be saved and avoid hell. Both requests were denied. How many times a day do you want something and get it? In hell, no one ever gets what they want. 11. PLACE OF WORMS. “Where their worm dieth not...” Mark 9:44,46,48. Worm means maggot. If the maggots do not die, and the people own the maggots, then neither do the people die or get annihilated in hell. 12. TORMENT and PUNISHMENT. “In hell, he lift up his eyes being in torments.” Luke 16:23. 13. SHAME and HATRED. “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. People suffering in hell will get a resurrection body. They will be judged, and sent to the lake of fire in shame at their sins. They will experience everlasting contempt, hating their situation forever. 14. DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. “It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement, than for that city.” Mark 6:11. Those who reject Christ most often, will receive greater punishment. Matthew 10:15. 15. WEEPING, WAILING, GNASHING OF TEETH. “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12 and 13:49,50. People who today are arrogant, proud Christ-rejecters will be wailing and gnashing their teeth in hell. 16. HADES IS IN THE EARTH. Amos 9:2 “though they dig into hell ...”, Isaiah 14:9 “hell from beneath”, Ephesians 4:9 “descended into lower parts of earth”, Numbers 16:33 “they went down alive into the pit”, Psalm 63:9 “those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.” 17. HELL IS ORIGINALLY PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS “Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41. How does one get to hell? By neglecting to receive Christ as Saviour. Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?” How does one avoid hell? By receiving Christ as their Saviour. John 1:12. Christians should work harder to rescue people from hell, and seek to build their church to better achieve this task, both at home and overseas. Question 1: Does “hell” mean “grave” where good and bad must go? Answer: No, because in Luke 16:19-31 both men went to the grave, but the soul of Lazarus was comforted, and the soul of the rich man was tormented. Question 2: How can a loving God send people to hell? Answer: People send themselves to hell by rejecting Christ. God is loving in sending Christ to die for our sins, but God is just in punishing sin. III. JESUS' STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS in Luke 16:19-31. An unbelieving rich man who had abundant material possessions and food in this life, died and went to hell. A believing poor man named Lazarus who had nothing in this life but sickness and poverty, died and was carried by the angels into the comfort of paradise. The suffering rich man in hell made two requests of Abraham in paradise: i) To send Lazarus to put one drop of water on his tongue to relieve his suffering. The rich man, who refused to show mercy to Lazarus in need, now begged that Lazarus might show mercy to him in his need (v.24). The rich man declares the greatness of his torment saying: “I am in torment (agony) in this fire (or flame).” v.24. Lesson: Material things have only temporary, not eternal value. Luke 16:25. Abraham responded by calling him “son”. This means that he was a son of Abraham by flesh, not by faith. The rich man trusted his wealth and his physical descent from Abraham for his salvation. Christ showed that neither reason was sufficient for salvation. At death, one's eternal destiny is settled. "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed" (v.26). The rich man could remember his false confidence in wealth, and his wrong devotion to it. This story refutes "soul-sleep", because the rich man and Lazarus were conscious, one enjoying comfort, and the other suffering torment. Note: Hades had two sections: paradise and hell punishment. Jesus emptied the paradise section when He rose from the dead and took the Old Testament believers’ souls to heaven. Eph. 4:8-10; John 20:17. “Torment” is used four times and means sorrow and grief. Abraham gave two reasons why Lazarus could not comfort the rich man: a) The rich man had received his reward (Matthew 6:2,5,16), and he had left God out of his life. b)The great gulf separated them. ii) To send Lazarus back to warn his five brothers. Luke 16:27-31. The rich man did not say: “I'm glad my brothers will come here, we'll have a wonderful time together.” People sometimes say: "I want to go to hell. All my friends will be there." Answer: There is no friendship in hell. Hell is a place of torment and loneliness. Lesson: People in hell have a concern for the lost, but they cannot do anything about it, BUT WE CAN! What are you doing? v.29-31: Abraham said that the only thing that could prevent his five brothers from coming to hell was: Hearing the Word of God, and responding to it by faith in Christ as Saviour. A man named Lazarus did come back from the dead, and some of the Pharisees wanted to kill him (John 11:43-57; 12:10). God had spoken many times to the rich man while on earth: 1. God permitted him to have riches, but not attributing his riches to God’s goodness, he did not repent. “The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.” Romans 2:4-5. 2. Lazarus would have witnessed to him, but his pride rejected Lazarus’ message. 3. Old Testament scriptures spoke to him. 4. Lazarus dying first, should have reminded him how he would also die. In hell he was still self-centred, praying for his comfort and for the safety of his family. He was not concerned about other lost sinners. C.S. Lewis says: “The safest road to hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.” Lessons from the rich man and Lazarus: 1. The souls of men do not die with their bodies. 2. The souls of men are conscious after death, not asleep until resurrected. 3. The righteous at death are taken immediately to a place of happiness and the wicked are sent to a place of misery and torment. 4. Wealth does not protect us from death. 5. We should not envy the rich, as riches can blind us to the reality of eternity. 6. We should seek a better inheritance than this life can give. 7. The sufferings of the wicked in hell will be indescribably great of torment, burning flame, and insatiable thirst, forever. 8. Hell is a place of suffering beyond the grave. If not, this story has no meaning. 9. There will never be any escape from hell. The gulf is fixed. 10. God warns us to prepare for death through: His Word. His Holy Spirit pleading with sinners. His servants. His goodness leading us to repentance. Pleadings of friends. Heaven. If all that would not move sinners, then what would? He threatens hell. 11. God will give us nothing more to warn us. No dead man will return to tell us what he has seen. If he did, no one would believe him. If you will not hear Christ or the Bible, there is nothing you will hear. You will never be persuaded, and you will never escape the place of torment. 12. We see the amazing folly of those wanting to go to hell. They have been deceived. IV. THE IMPLICATIONS OF HELL FOR US TODAY 1. Soul winning is important. When people get angry at a preacher preaching on soul winning, they are doing the devil's work. 2. We need to become fishers of men. Matthew 4:19. 3. If we are busy pulling souls out of the fire, we will not waste our time fighting other Christians. We will seek to maintain unity in our church. 4. We see our Church as of great importance in rescuing people from hell. Rescuing people from hell is a major purpose of churches. 5. Hell focuses our attention on eternity, taking our attention off petty present things like latest worldly fashions which pale into insignificance in the light of lost people going to an eternal hell. 6. Hell makes us train workers to be soul winners. 7. It gives us a love for people to win to Christ and to train in the Bible. 8. It makes us use our time wisely so that all we do helps in some way to rescue people from hell. 9. Hell makes us mission minded so that we try to win lost people to Christ overseas. For example, Roman Catholics in Africa grew from 52 million in 1980 to 92 million in 1993. 10. Hell and eternal judgment is the sixth principle of the Doctrine of Christ, so it must be emphasised in our doctrinal teaching. “the foundation of ……eternal judgment.” Hebrews 6:1,2. 11. Hell will give us a better testimony as Christians. If we sin, people will go to hell. 12. Hell will stop us backsliding because we will realise that our job is important to accomplish in rescuing people from hell. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36. What is your answer to this question? Conclusion Are you really saved? Have you received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, trusting Him alone to save you, not your religion or your good works? If you are saved, then what are you doing to tell people how Jesus Christ can save them from hell? reprinted with permission
  24. Matthew 10:28 "fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" Eph 3: 20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, 21 to Him be the glory So then torture - in fire and brimstone is the portion for the wicked in the lake of fire.. But they will in fact be destroyed in it after some time of suffering - in the end "both body and soul". Even Satan himself - reduced to ashes. Ezek 28 “By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. 19 “All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.”’”
  25. Having experienced the torments of Hell, I can verify the legitimacy of this testimony, but more importantly, discernment tells me it's real and genuine. I encourage those who watch this not to go down a rabbit hole of Hell testimonies all at once, it can be overwhelming and very depressing, please be led by the Spirit by discerning the voice of God on all pursuits, but Jesus has taken people to experience these experiences for a reason. May you learn from these testimonies and be convicted (if necessary) and not condemned by responding to that conviction accordingly, (remember God chastises those He loves!) and may the Lord bless you mightily in Jesus' mighty name! Revelation 20:15: And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Luke 12:5: But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Revelation 21:8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
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