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Found 14 results

  1. KiwiChristian

    50 Questions to Ask Mormons

    50 Questions to Ask Mormons Questions are a great way to witness to Mormons. Most cultists will turn you off if you begin to preach to them, however, asking questions gives them hope that you are genuinely interested in learning more about their religion. It also is a great way to get them thinking about things they may have never thought about and researching into the false teachings of their church. Questions are great seed-planters that the Holy Spirit can make grow in their hearts and minds and, ultimately, lead them to Christ. They are also great conversation starters. The questions below are grouped into 4 different categories. Mormon Prophets 1. Why does the Mormon Church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)? 2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon Church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true (Journal of Discourses, 1870, v.13, p.271)? 3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? 4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)? 5. Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets? 6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct? 7. Since there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith’s first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one? 8. Can you show me in the Bible the LDS teaching that we must all stand before Joseph Smith on the Day of Judgment? Mormon Scripture 9. Can you show me archeological and historical proof from non-Mormon sources that prove that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true? 10. If the words “familiar spirit” in Isaiah 29:4 refer to the Book of Mormon, why do familiar spirits always refer to occult practices such as channeling and necromancy everywhere else in the Old Testament? 11. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? 12. Why were the words “white and delightsome” in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to “pure and delightsome” right on the heels of the Civil Rights campaign for blacks? 13. If God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones, why does Alma 18:26-28 and John 4:24 say that God is a spirit? 14. Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abraham 2:24? Isn’t lying a sin according to the 10 commandments? Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi 9:34 condemns liars to hell? 15. Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem? 16. If the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth, as Joseph Smith said, why does it contain over 4000 changes from the original 1830 edition? 17. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why does the LDS Church need additional works? 18. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why doesn’t it say anything about so many important teachings such as eternal progression, celestial marriage, the Word of Wisdom, the plurality of Gods, the pre-existence of man, our mother in heaven, baptism for the dead, etc? 19. Why do you baptize for the dead when both Mosiah 3:25 and the Bible state that there is no chance of salvation after death? 20. Since the word grace means a free gift that can’t be earned, why does the Book of Mormon state “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)? 21. Does the LDS Church still regard the Pearl of Great Price as Holy Scripture even after several prominent Egyptologists proved it was an ancient funeral scroll? 22. Why does the Book of Abraham, chapters 4 & 5, contradict Alma 11 in stating that there is more than one God? 23. Why does Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 say there is no forgiveness for a murderer when 3 Nephi 30:2 says there is forgiveness for him? 24. If the Adam-God doctrine isn’t true, how come Doctrine and Covenants 27:11 calls Adam the Ancient of Days which is clearly a title for God in Daniel chapter 7? 25. Why does the Book of Mormon contain extensive, word-for-word quotes from the Bible if the LDS Church is correct in teaching that the Bible has been corrupted? 26. Why do the Bible verses quoted in the Book of Mormon contain the italicized words from the King James Version that were added into the KJV text by the translators in the 16th and 17th centuries? 27. If the Book of Mormon was engraved on gold plates thousands of years ago, why does it read in perfect 1611 King James Version English? Bible Questions 28. If marriage is essential to achieve exaltation, why did Paul say that it is good for a man not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:1)? 29. Since the Word of Wisdom teaches us to abstain from alcohol, why did Paul encourage Timothy to drink wine for his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23)? 30. If obeying the Word of Wisdom - which tells us to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and tobacco - is important for our exaltation, why did Jesus say that there is nothing that can enter a man to make him defiled (Mark 7:15)? 31. If Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and Elohim is referred to as God in the Old Testament, can you explain Deuteronomy 6:4 to me: “Hear, O Israel: the LORD (Jehovah) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (Jehovah)? 32. Why does the Mormon Church teach that we can be married in heaven when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30 that in the resurrection men neither marry, nor are they given in marriage? 33. How can worthy Mormon males become Gods in the afterlife when God already said that before him no God was formed, nor will there be any Gods formed after him (Isaiah 43:10)? 34. If God had a father who was a God, how come Isaiah 44:8 says that he doesn’t know him? 35. If God was once just a man who progressed to becoming a God, how do you explain Psalm 90:2: “…even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”? 36. How can God be an exalted man when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man? 37. Why does the Mormon Church teach that Elohim had sexual relations with Mary to produce Jesus when both Matthew and Luke teach she was a virgin (The Seer, January, 1853, p.158)? 38. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus paid for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane when 1 Peter 2:24 says it was on the cross? 39. Why did Bruce McConkie write that a man may commit a sin so grievous that it will place him beyond the atoning blood of Christ (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p.93) when the Bible says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7)? 40. Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual? 41. Since Jesus statement, “Be ye therefore perfect” (Matthew 5:48) is in the present tense, are you perfect right now? Do you expect to be perfect soon? According to Hebrews 10:14, how are we made perfect? 42. Why do Mormons say the sticks in Ezekiel 37 represent the Bible and the Book of Mormon when Ezekiel 37:20-22 tells us that the sticks represent two nations, not two books? 43. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers when both the first chapter of John and Colossians teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, including Lucifer? 44. Why do worthy Mormon males hold the Aaronic priesthood since Hebrews 7:11-12 clearly teaches that it was changed and superceded by something better? 45. If your leaders are correct about the complete falling away of the true church on earth, was Jesus in error when he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)? General 46. If having a physical body is necessary to become a god, how did Jesus become a god before he had a body? 47. Do you think the LDS Church will reconsider its teachings that the American Indians are descendants of the Jewish race now that DNA evidence has proven that they are actually descendants of the Asian race? 48. If polygamy was officially re-instituted by the Mormon Church, how would your wife feel about you taking another woman? 49. Since the LDS Church teaches that there was a complete apostasy of the true church on earth, does that mean that the 3 living Nephites and the Apostle John went into apostasy also? 50. Why are Mormon Temple ceremonies secret to the public when the Old Testament temple ceremonies were open to public knowledge?
  2. KiwiChristian

    Book Of Mormon Errors

    The Book of Mormon predicts that the Lamanites (American Indians) would soon change to white skin colour. “Many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people.” 2 Nephi 30:6. Dark skinned Mormon Indians have never become lightened due to their holding Mormon doctrines. Indian murals show Indians of 4 skin colours, all living peaceably. Question: If the light skinned Nephites were wiped out in 421 AD as the Book of Mormon claims, why are both light and dark skinned Indians portrayed in later wall paintings at Bonampak and Chichen-Itza? The Book of Mormon is wrong on Indian warfare. It is mostly a book of wars, oppression, slavery, treachery and bloodshed. The writer has an obsession with warfare and killing, with killings starting from Chapter 4. Weapons used from 544 BC to 52 BC (p107-359) are listed as bows and arrows, steel swords, axes, brass and copper breastplates, shields, horses and chariots, and cimiters. Question: What is wrong with this picture? Almost everything. The author knew almost nothing about early American life, lack of warfare, and politics. Early Americans from 600 BC to 421 AD had very little interest in war, and had no occasion for war because: a) They spent most of their time farming. b) They had no great cities of great population as are mentioned in the Book of Mormon. c) Mongoloids have a different philosophy of life and war than Europeans and Semites. d) Early Americans knew nothing of iron and steel for swords, until the Spaniards came. e) Breastplates of brass and copper were unknown then. f) Cimeters were curved swords used by Persians, Arabs and Turks, only appearing 1000 years later (1400 AD). g) Arm shields and axes of metal were not yet invented in America. h) The earliest metals in America were gold beads dated 600 AD. Copper, bronze, and silver came much later, when smelting was invented. i) Horses and chariots were not used in America before the Spanish conquest. j) The wheel was never used in America before the Europeans came. Roads were pedestrian roads approaching the temples, and were not built in the Book of Mormon period k) The sinewed bow and arrow of the American Indians came 600 years later, after 421 AD. They instead used an atlatl, or throwing stick. l) Wars of conquest were unknown because the gaining of new territory for occupation was unnecessary, as there was plenty of room for all Indians. The Book of Mormon forgets that glass windows were not invented in 2200 BC at the Tower of Babel. (The first glass vessels were invented around 1500BC in Egypt. The first window glass was invented around 50AD. World Book Encyclopedia. Jared and others supposedly migrate from Mesopotamia to America when the Tower of Babel was built. For light in their boats, God was supposed to have given them luminous stones. “For, behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces.” Ether 2:23. Smith did not know that the Phoenicians had not yet invented glass. Amazingly, 50-80 people sailed for 344 days, without any loss of life, or running short of food. Darkness covered the whole earth at Christ’s crucifixion for 3 hours (Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33), but the Book of Mormon mistakes it to be 3 days (Helamen 14:20,27). Smith thought that Elijah (O.T.) and Elias (N.T. spelling) were different people. They are the same person. Elijah is the Old Testament name, and Elias is the New Testament name. This is found in “Doctrines and Covenants” Section 109 and 110:11-13, which is devoted to a prayer offered at the dedication of the temple in Kirtland, Ohio, March 27, 1836, where Smith states: “The Lord appeared, ... Moses appeared before us... Elias appeared... After this vision was closed another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us.” Elijah and Elias are the same person. What a blunder! Elijah and Elisha are distinguished correctly in Luke 4:25,26: “Many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias (Elijah)... Many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus (Elisha) the prophet; and none of them was cleansed saving Naaman the Syrian.” Once this revelation was presented as the word of God, there was no easy way to correct this mistake. The Book of Abraham Fraud This is found in the Mormon scripture known as “The Pearl of Great Price”. Joseph Smith in 1835 purchased an ancient Egyptian papyrus found in mummy wrapping acquired by Michael H. Chandler. Smith, believing that he had the gift of interpreting ancient Egyptian, claimed that the rolls contained the writings of Abraham himself, signed personally by Abraham. In 1842, Smith published his translation under the title “The Book of Abraham” in “Times and Seasons”. He claimed that a picture in it was Abraham sitting on Pharaoh’s throne. These papyri were lost for many years, but they turned up and were presented to the Mormon Church by the Metropolitan Art Museum of New York on November 27, 1967. When translated, they found that not a single word of Joseph Smith’s translation was correct. The text had nothing to do with Abraham, but described magical spells to open the mouth of the dead to prepare him for his audience with Osiris to be judged. Hence Joseph Smith’s translation of Egyptian is proved false. Many earthquakes with great destruction and loss of life supposedly accompanied Christ’s death, to show God’s displeasure. Mormons claim that this took place in Yucatan in Mexico. This is an area of flat jungle on limestone, which has been free from earthquakes. Ruins here date from 150 AD or later, not before. What is wrong with this passage? a) Jesus rebuked James and John for wanting to call down fire from heaven to destroy the scoffing Samaritans. b) The inhabitants of America were no greater sinners than the chief priests who demanded Christ’s death. Christ did not curse them, but prayed for their forgiveness. c) Calvary was an act of mercy, not of destruction. No one died in the Jerusalem earthquake, nor when the temple veil was torn. So why should many people die in America who were not responsible for Christ’s death? 3 Nephi 8:1-24. d) Christ came to save men’s lives, not destroy them. Smith never understood God’s mercy and grace to man at Calvary. How can Helaman 12:26, supposedly written in 6 BC, quote John 5:29 which was not yet written until 85 AD? You cannot quote something that is not yet written. “fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall receive everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation.” Helaman 12:26 in 6 BC. It is obvious that this is a great mistake, proving the Book of Mormon to be a fake, made up by someone who did not know his facts, and who was given to lying. John 5:29 quotes: “And shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” QUESTION:: Does this verse teach salvation by good works? Answer: No, because John’s theology forbids this (3:17-21; 6:28,29). It states that those who are truly born again will live a life of good works after salvation. They obey Christ (14:15), they abide in Christ (15:5-7), and they walk in the light (John 8:12). Damnation is because of rejecting Christ (John 3:36). Of the 38 cities in the Book of Mormon, leading archaeologists have not found any remains of any of these alleged cities. The Smithsonian Institute in Washington states: “There is no correspondence whatever between archaeological sites and cultures as revealed by scientific investigations, and as recorded in the Book of Mormon... Thus far no iron, steel, brass, gold and silver coins, metal, swords, breastplates, arm shields, armour, horses and chariots, or silk have ever been found in pre-colonial archaeological sites.” Kingdom of the Cults, W. Martin, p.162. The testimony of the 3 witnesses which appears at the front of the Book of Mormon (Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris) ... declares that: “an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engraving thereon...” Martin Harris denied to Professor Anthon that he had actually seen the plates, but that he only saw them “with the eye of faith.” Note: All three of these witnesses later apostasized from the Mormon faith, and were described by Mormon contemporaries as thieves and counterfeiters. Joseph Smith lied to try and prove the book of mormon Joseph Smith, in an effort to prove the Book of Mormon, claimed in the “Pearl of Great Price” Section 2, verses 62, 63, 64, that Professor Charles Anthon verified the “reformed Egyptian language.” Smith allegedly quotes Professor Anthon as follows: “Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic and he said that they were true characters”. This later proved to be a TOTAL LIE, as Professor Anthon wrote in a letter to E.D. Howe, that he NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. Mormons have NEVER been able to refute this letter or ANY of Howe’s research. An excerpt from Professor Anthon’s letter of rebuttal is as follows: New York, N.Y., Feb. 17, 1834 Mr E.D. Howe Painseville, Ohio Dear Sir, ... The whole story about my having pronounced the Mormonite inscription to be “reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics” is perfectly false... Yours respectfully, Charles Anthon, LL.D. Columbia University. All reputable linguists who have examined the Mormon evidence have rejected it as mythical. Mormon misunderstanding of the Sticks of Joseph and Judah in Ezekiel 37:15-23. Mormons claim that the “stick of Judah” refers to the Bible, and the “stick of Ephraim” refers to the Book of Mormon. They claim that the joining of the 2 sticks refers to the union of the Bible and the Book of Mormon as an addition to the Word of God. Answer: The subject under discussion is not books, but people and nations. It refers to the then divided nation of Israel (587 BC) of the northern and southern kingdoms becoming reunited as one nation in the land, just before and after Christ’s second coming. “These bones are the whole house of Israel”. Ezekiel 37:11. The 2 sticks becoming one stick in Ezekiel’s hand represent Judah (2 1/2 tribes) and Israel (9 1/2 tribes) being united in the end days. “I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, ... and bring them into their own land: I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel,.....they shall be no more 2 nations”. Ezekiel 37:21,22. The Mormon view totally ignores the context, hoping no one will read the passage too carefully. There are no rivers emptying into the Red Sea. “... When he had travelled three days in the wilderness, he pitched his tent in a valley by the side of a river of water.... He called the name of the river Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the border near the mouth thereof.” I Nephi 2:4-9. a) It would have been impossible for an old man (Lehi), women and children to travel the 175 mile journey from Jerusalem to the Red Sea in 3 days. Question: Could you walk 58 miles per day for 3 days? Travelling 3 miles per hour, you would need to travel for 20 hours each day non-stop for 3 days. This would have been quite impossible. b) There are no rivers running into the Red Sea along their route, the eastern shore of the Gulf of Aqaba, at this or any other point. There are not even any traceable ancient river systems in this part of Arabia. This part of the world was well known and well travelled in 600 BC. Had there been a river as Nephi describes, the area would have been one of the best known in the world of its day. It would have supported a sizeably populated civilization, as always happened where fresh water was available. The mouth of such a river would have been a world-renowned port, if not a capital city, in 600 BC. c) These 6 people then cross 1400 miles of the Arabian peninsula, 400 miles being rugged mountains and 1000 miles of desert. d) They find a bountiful, fruitful land on the Persian Gulf. Alexander’s troops in 330 BC avoided this as desert area. e) They then build a ship sufficiently seaworthy to carry them two-thirds around the world in rough seas to the west coast of America, now known as Peru. American Indians are Mongoloids from East Asia, not Semites from Jerusalem as the Book of Mormon claims. For 200 years before 1820, many philosophers thought that the American Indians were the lost tribes of Israel. The dark skin of the Indians is not caused by their bad morals, as the Book of Mormon claims, but by genetics. American Indians are Mongoloid, not Jewish, because: a) Mongoloids lack face and body hair, (growing at most 3 inches of beard in a lifetime), but Jews have much face and body hair. b) Mongoloid hair is coarse, black & straight, but Jewish Semite hair is moderately fine, wavy and brown. c) Mongoloids have reddish skin pigmentation, but Jewish Semites have an olive-gray pigmentation. d) Mongoloids have prominent cheek bones, not like Semites. e) Mongoloids appear slant-eyed, but Semites have deep seated eyes. f) Mongoloid babies have a Mongolian spot on their backs. This is a slate-blue round pigment spot that disappears after a few months or years. It is not present on the backs of Jewish or Semite babies. Hence American Indians could not descend from Jews. Mormons must defend their prophet even if they have to close their eyes to do so. No coinage system was ever developed in ancient America. If the alleged ‘Nephites’ were descended from Jews raised in Jerusalem, their coinage and money values would have survived to the New World. Hence Joseph Smith created a system of coinage for people of the Book of Mormon in America. It seems strange that Smith did not continue using Jewish shekels and talents, but that he devised coins such as senines, seons, shums and limnals of gold. Unfortunately for Smith, while his guess was logical, it was completely wrong. No system of coinage was ever developed by ancient Americans. The Mayans who traded had: a) No money transactions in their records. b) Their coins would have been discovered in their graves and homes. c) No coins were found in sacred wells, where so many valuable ornaments and jewels were thrown as offerings to their gods. d) All the known Mayan media of exchange have been identified, both of their own land, and also along the ancient trade routes of Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean Sea, but never have they found metallic money. e) Columbus was told by a Mayan chieftain in 1502 that all transactions were by barter. f) Interregional markets were found at Xicalenco, a market town between Aztec and Mayan populations, where Aztec, Mayan, Toltec, Mixtec and Totocan peoples met. Surely if there had been a coined money system it would have been found here. g) Cacao beans came closest to a standardised medium of exchange for uneven barter. h) Taxation had no metal coinage, but was a work service. Question: Why did they have no coinage? Answer: Because they had no metal until gold was discovered after 600 AD. Gold was used only for ornamentation. Silver was discovered around 900 AD. There never was an iron age in America before Columbus. In spite of this, Joseph Smith had his ancient Nephites and Lamanites using iron and steel swords. Iron was the scarcest and most valuable metal. Gold was the most plentiful and cheapest metal. Silk and fine linen have never been successfully grown in America. Joseph Smith has Alma, a judge of the Nephites in 100 BC, stating that his people possessed “an abundance of silk and fine twined linen, and all manner of good homely cloth.” Alma 1:29. Smith was wrong here because: a) Silk was unknown in the Americas until the Europeans came, and that it has never been successfully introduced since then. b) Cortez tried to grow silk in Mexico in 1522, but the industry died out 75 years later. Encyclopaedia Brittanica, 1959 ed. XX, 664. c) James I of England in 1609 tried to introduce silk culture in the American colonies, but failed. d) Silk still has to be imported to the US from the Orient. e) In Alma 17:25-33, Ammon protects King Lamoni’s flocks from attackers. This is wrong because there were no domestic sheep in America before the Spanish came (Morley, The Ancient Maya, p.408). Central America and southern Mexico never have been suitable for raising sheep. Sheep could not thrive in jungle country. Indians wore fabric of rabbit hair, birds’ feathers &Kapok tree. Joseph Smith’s failure to mention these, and his mention of materials totally unknown in any early American period, proves that the Book of Mormon was written by a completely uninformed scribe who knew nothing of life in Ancient America. Impossibility of churches, temples and synagogues in America from 539 BC-34AD a) The Book of Mormon mentions “synagogues” at least 12 times. Alma 16:13 speaks of synagogues “built after the manner of the Jews”. They date synagogues from 559 BC to 34 AD. Nephi and his successors in America could have known nothing of synagogues. Why? Because synagogues were founded after the Temple’s destruction in 586 BC, when Temple worship was an impossibility because Jews were in Babylonian exile. Nephi would never have seen a synagogue in Israel. b) II Nephi 5:16 tells us that Nephi built a temple “after the manner of the temple of Solomon”, not more than 20 years after the migrant party landed in America between 588-570 BC. What is wrong with this? i) They didn’t have enough workers. In I Kings 5:13-18 Solomon needed 183,300 workers (made up of 70,000 labourers + 80,000 stone quarriers, 3300 supervisors + 30,000 loggers) over 7 1/2 years, to build his temple. Yet Nephi had only about 12 adults, because half the company had apostasized. Five couples could not produce more than 50 children in 20 years. It would have been impossible for Nephi, with 5 men’s help, to construct a building requiring many specialised skills. ii) There could be no practical use for it, because the population was so small (about 20). Solomon’s temple served a nation of several million worshippers. iii) II Nephi 5:15 says that materials “were in great abundance”. This contradicts v.16 which says that the materials were ‘not to be found upon the land’. “And I, Nephi, did build a temple; ... after the manner of the temple of Solomon, save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land...” v.16. Here Joseph Smith tripped badly, because he has Nephi saying in the previous verse: “And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores which were in great abundance.” II Nephi 5:15. Note: At this same time Smith has Nephi making swords of steel, long before the invention of steel anywhere in the world, to arm his soldiers against about 40 of his apostate brother’s people.
  3. KiwiChristian

    book of mormon error

    3 Nephi 28:4-8 speaks of three men who were told by Jesus that they would never die, but would remain on Earth until His second coming. However, the Bible is clear in explaining that God has “appointed” man to die (Hebrews 9:27). Such a tale is so imaginary many Mormons are reluctant to admit they believe it.
  4. KiwiChristian

    JOSEPH SMITH’S CLAIMS EXAMINED

    No 1820 Revival; 1st Vision Unreliable Joseph Smith alleged that because of a revival in 1820 in the vicinity of Palmyra, NY, he went to the woods to pray for guidance as to which church he should join. He claimed that two glowing personages appeared to him and told him to join none of them, as they were all wrong, their creeds an abomination and their professors corrupt. There is no evidence from the churches of Palmyra that there was a revival in 1820. Baptismal records show that there was a revival 4 years later in 1824, but this destroys the chronology established by Smith as recorded in official church history. There are also problems with his first vision story: • The official version was not recorded until 18 years after the event supposedly occurred. • There is no mention of it in Oliver Cowdery’s history of the Latter Day Saint movement written in 1834 under Smith’s supervision. • In 1828, Smith attempted to join the Methodist church, a direct violation of the command he allegedly received from God 8 years earlier. But most troubling of all, is the fact that early church publications and records document at least 6 distinctly different versions of his first vision. The differing versions contradict each other in regard to Smith’s age, the reason he went to the woods to pray, the number and identity of the personages who appeared to him, and most notably, the message he received. BOM not Translation Joseph Smith claimed that he translated the text of the Book of Mormon from gold plates through the Urim and Thummin by the power of the Holy Spirit. The title page of the Book of Mormon published today contains the words “Translated by Joseph Smith.” This is a core belief of his followers. You will be shocked to learn that the above account did not happen. According to the witnesses present in the room when Joseph Smith was dictating the text of the Book of Mormon, “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light.” (quote David Whitmer) The gold plates were under a cloth or hidden in the woods and were not used directly in the creation process. Other witnesses included Emma Smith, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, Isaac Hale and Michael Morse (Joseph Smith’s brother in law). These details do not contradict the statements by the 11 witnesses. The unavoidable conclusion is, the Book of Mormon is not a “translation” within the commonly held meaning of that word. No BOM Archeology No person mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been identified in the ancient archeology of the Americas. No place mentioned in that book has ever been located geographically. The language referenced in the Book of Mormon is Reformed Egyptian and no evidence for that language has been found anywhere on the earth. No event mentioned in the Book of Mormon has been confirmed from any objective source. Many objects mentioned in the Book of Mormon (e.g. steel, coins, wheels, swords, horses, Christian or Hebrew artifacts) have not been confirmed with archeology. Many objects and customs that archeology confirms did exist during that time period (e.g. obsidian, human sacrifice, dogs as food, adobe brick, terrace farming, hieroglyphics, cotton, tobacco) are not mentioned in the Book of Mormon. In contrast, hundreds of archeological findings support the accuracy of the Bible. Archeologists and researchers who have examined Book of Mormon claims have rejected its validity. Thomas Stuart Ferguson, Dan Vogel, Dee Green, Michael Coe and the Smithsonian Institute have all issued statements denying the historicity of the Book of Mormon. DNA Refutes BOM In 1830, Joseph Smith presented the Book of Mormon to the world, declaring it to be the most correct of any book on earth. It has been promoted for the past 174 years by his followers, not only as a scriptural supplement to the Bible, but also as a literal history of the ancestors of the American Indians. Joseph Smith taught that Native Americans were actually descendants of Jews who had traveled to the Americas in three migrations; the first at the time of the Tower of Babel, the last two, approximately 600 BC However, recent DNA analysis of American Indians from more than 150 tribes, both ancient and present-day, reveals that Joseph Smith’s claims have no basis in fact. Of the thousands of Native Americans tested, 99.4% were of North East Asian descent, while the remaining 0.6% were of African and European descent. No DNA evidence supports Joseph Smith’s assertion that American Indians are of Jewish or Hebrew descent. BOM Text Impossible The Book of Mormon text contains logical impossibilities. The Book of Mormon’s Old Testament portion (BMOT) quotes heavily from the New Testament of the Bible. There are at least185 quotations and 2,500 unique vocabulary words from the New Testament in the BMOT such as: “Bible,” “Jesus,” “Christ,” “Christian” and “baptism”. These New Testament words do not appear in the Old Testament of the Bible but they do appear in the BMOT. It is impossible to quote a text 600 years before it came into existence. Similarly, circa 550 BC, Nephi quoted four verses from the Book of Malachi over 100 years before they were written, circa 425 BC. Since these verses were not Of the three biblical priesthoods, Joseph Smith included in his church the two that are unavailable to Christians written until after Lehi left Jerusalem, Nephi could not have had access to them. In short, this is a double impossibility of both time and space. The Book of Mormon also contains 18 chapters of the book of Isaiah from the 1611 King James Version of the Bible, including most of the italicized words. Nephi quotes from that version 2,000 years before it came into existence. Smith Convicted In 1826 at Bainbridge, New York, Joseph Smith was arrested, tried and convicted of the crime of “glass looking,” an occult practice similar to crystal ball gazing. This trial was the direct result of Smith’s attempt to find buried treasure for Josiah Stowell, for a fee, with the use of a seer stone. For many years, followers of Joseph Smith denied the reports of those present at the trial and accused them of being Smith’s enemies. Court documents including a bill of costs from Justice Albert Neely have now been found that confirm that the trial occurred and that Joseph was convicted of the crime of “glass looking.” The significance of this conviction is more than the fact that Joseph Smith was convicted of a crime. The described use of the seer stone is eerily similar to the method Joseph Smith actually used in creating the Book of Mormon as described herein. Smith and Polygamy On July 12, 1843, in Nauvoo, Illinois, Joseph Smith allegedly received a revelation commanding the practice of polygamy, which he labeled celestial marriage. His diary contains the following entry, “I received the following revelation in the presence of my brother Hyram and Elder William Clayton.” Excerpts from the revelation read, “…I [the Lord] reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant and if ye abide not in that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory…If ye abide in my covenant…then shall…[ye] be Gods.” William Clayton, Smith’s personal secretary, recorded the following, “I did write the revelation on celestial marriage given through the prophet Joseph Smith, on 12th of July, 1843.” Many sworn testimonies given by those living in Nauvoo at the time the revelation was made public, verify the fact that Joseph Smith not only gave this revelation but also practiced polygamy himself. Two Invalid Priesthoods The Bible speaks of three priesthoods: the Aaronic, the Melchizedek and the Royal Priesthood of All Believers. The Aaronic priesthood consisted of priests and a single high priest. It was instituted by God in the Old Testament to be a mediator between God and man, with the high priest offering sacrifices for the sins of the people. This priesthood was made obsolete with the death of Christ on the cross, since he was the last sacrifice for sin and the new mediator between God and man. Neither the Bible nor church history records the existence of the Aaronic priesthood in the New Testament Christian church. Any attempt to “restore” this priesthood shows contempt for Christ’s sacrifice. The Melchizedek priesthood was unique. The Bible records it being held by only two people, Melchizedek in the Old Testament and Jesus Christ in the New Testament. No evidence exists of any other person holding this priesthood. “Every reference in the Bible to a Melchizedek priesthood is in reference to the specific and unique ministry which Jesus Christ alone fulfills as God’s chosen means of salvation for his people.” (Paul Trask) The Royal priesthood consists of all born-again believers who make up the body of Christ, with Jesus as their great high priest. He is the only high priest for the Christian church. Because he will never die, his high priest status can never be transferred to another. Any attempt to appropriate Christ’s high priest title or ministry to oneself usurps His unique title and function and constitutes blasphemy. Consequently, Joseph Smith’s priesthood system, which includes multiple high priests, is heretical. Of the three biblical priesthoods, Joseph Smith included in his church the two that are unavailable to Christians – The Aaronic and the Melchizedek. Tragically, he ignored the only priesthood that is available to Christians, the Royal Priesthood. Salvation By Works In over 30 LDS scripture passages Smith altered the requirements for salvation. He said, “ye are justified by faith and works through grace” (Rom. 4:16 Insp. Ver.) and “if ye keep the commandments of God ye shall be saved.” (Mosiah 7:94 BOM) The Bible says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.” Titus 3:5. The Bible doctrine of salvation may be summarized as: we are saved from sin and death through faith in the grace of Jesus by his sacrifice for us on the cross -- and that alone. Churches that remain connected to Joseph Smith do not teach the essentials of the Christian faith. Salvation by works is neither Biblical nor effective. If a church does not teach the Christian doctrine of salvation its members will be confused. They might perceive wrongfully that God has abandoned them. We are never good enough to merit God’s love and can only obtain God’s acceptance through Jesus’ atonement for our sins, which is the basis for our salvation. Jesus–Faithful Shepherd We understand what you may be feeling after reading the facts above. The fear and turmoil you may be experiencing is temporary. As former followers of Joseph Smith we have found Jesus is the only Faithful Shepherd. The broken-hearted can turn to Him for comfort. It is our prayer that you will know the truth because the truth will set you free. If you are a follower of Joseph Smith who cares about the truth, you will surely be disturbed as you confirm the facts above. You may want to deny the evidence. The allegations here are too serious not to be tested. If you discover this ad is true, you may feel that you have wasted your life. But you haven’t, if you make sure you follow Jesus, not Joseph. You may be angry with us but we are only telling you the truth. You may experience pain about the loss of identity and heritage. Jesus will never forsake you. He will send you the Holy Comforter. He will give you new friends. You may feel guilt at your part in the perpetuation of a false system. Fear not -- Jesus can make you new and clean, but you must let the sin cease. In all religious experience, only Jesus is real. If you seek him, you will find him — it will be worth the cost.
  5. KiwiChristian

    Mormon Secret Handshakes

    REQUIRED if you want to live with God the Father. Let me give you the definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell. (Brigham Young, 6 Apr 1853, Journal of Discourses vol. 2, page 31) "The Journal of Discourses is a vehicle of doctrine, counsel, and instruction to ALL people, but especially to the Saints." — Brigham Young "Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pp. 50,51) "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the Children of men, that they may not call scripture!" Bringham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, page 95. ... I am an Apostle of Joseph Smith.... all who reject my testimony will go to hell, so sure as there is one, no matter whether it be hot or cold ... (vol. 3, p. 212). "Brigham Young secured stenographic reports of his addresses. As he traveled among the people, reporters accompanied him. All that he said was recorded. Practically all of these discourses (from December 16, 1851 to August 19, 1877) were published in the Journal of Discourses, which was widely distributed. The public utterances of few great historical figures have been so faithfully and fully preserved." - John A. Widtsoe, Discourses of Brigham Young (1925), Deseret Book, 1954 edition: ISBN 0-87747-066-9.
  6. KiwiChristian

    FALSE MORMON DEFINITIONS OF BIBLE TERMS

    When Mormons use a Christian term, they reject the Biblical definition of that term, and they substitute a false, non-Christian definition in its place. Consider these false Mormon redefinitions: 1. Christianity = a false, damnable, apostate religion. 2. God = one of many self-progressing bodily deities. He was formerly a man, a finite creature. Bible refutation: i) “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Isaiah 43:10. “I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no God. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.” Isaiah 44:6,8. “I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.” v.5. “There is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.” v.6. “There is no God else beside me;” v.21. Isaiah 45:5,6,21. ii) Mormons teach that each god is evolving: “For I am the Lord, I change not.” Malachi 3:6. 3. Jesus Christ = a self-progressing deity (Jehovah of Old Testament) and the first spirit child of Elohim and his wife, Mary. Mormon Jesus. Biblical Jesus Christ. i) A created being, i) Uncreated God the brother of Lucifer. (John 1:1,3; Micah 5:2, I Timothy 3:16). ii) Earned his own salvation ii) Requires no salvation. by good works. (II Corinthians 5:21- “who knew no sin”). iii) One of many gods. iii) Second person of the one Godhead. (Exodus 20:3- no other gods). iv) Conceived by physical sex with iv) Conceived by the Holy Spirit. Mary (Matthew 1:23 a virgin overshadowing Mary. shall be with child). v) A married polygamist. v) Unmarried. 4. Holy Ghost = A man with a spiritual body of matter. “He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.. and shall be in you.” John 14:16,17. 5. Trinity = Tritheistic. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 separate deities. “Baptising them in the NAME (not names) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 28:19. 6. The Gospel = Mormon theology. “I declare unto you the gospel... Christ died for our sins... he was buried, and he rose again the third day.” I Corinthians 15:1-4. 7. Born again = Water baptism into Mormonism. “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God.” John 1:12. We are born again by receiving Jesus Christ as our Saviour, without any good works. 8. Atonement = God’s provision for an individual to earn their true salvation “by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” (Articles of Faith, 3). “Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:9. See “Answers” Chapter 91 entitled “Good Works don’t save us.” 9. True salvation, eternal life, redemption = Exaltation to Godhead in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is based on individual good works and personal merit. Exaltation involves ruling and sexual procreation of spirit children. Reply: Satan’s third lie to Eve was “ye shall be as gods.” Genesis 3:5. Becoming a god appealed to Eve’s pride and also to Mormons’ pride.We will never become a god, but will always be human, yes glorified humans in heaven. 10. The Fall = A spiritual step upward permitting physical bodies of children to be procreated. This is false, because it was already God’s plan for man to reproduce “after their own kind.” 11. Heaven = 3 kingdoms of glory. This is false because the 3 heavens are the atmosphere, space and God’s throne. II Corinthians 12:2. 12. Hell = generally like purgatory; possibly eternal for a very few such as apostate Mormons. False, because Christ “purged our sins.” Hebrews 1:3. 13. The Scriptures = The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price; the King James Bible as far as it is translated correctly. (Articles of Faith, 8). False, because of mistakes in Book of Mormon, Doctrines&Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Question: How did Mormons reach these false definitions? Answer: Because they did not rely on the Bible to define its terms. They relied on revelations from the spirit world of demons.
  7. KiwiChristian

    Biblical Jesus Vs. Mormon Jesus

    Biblical Jesus Vs. Mormon Jesus. Simply believing in someone named Jesus means NOTHING unless we are talking about the historic, Biblical Jesus. The apostle Paul warns us in 2 Corinthians 11:4 — there are some who preach a different Jesus. - The Bible teaches that Jesus has always existed as God (John 1:1). Mormons see Jesus as someone who worked His way up to godhood. In fact, to Mormons, Jesus is merely one in purpose with God the Father; whereas the Bible declares that the Father and the Son are also one in essence (cf. Phil. 2:6) — that they are both equally God and members of the Holy Trinity. - The Bible says Jesus was begotten by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:34-5. Is. 7:14. Matt. 1:18,20. Mormons see Jesus as being CREATED by sexual relations between God the father and mary. "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood---was begotten of his Father as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses vol.8, p.115); and "when the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness [flesh and blood]. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol.1, p.50). "I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ...he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it" (Journal of Discourses vol.8, p.211); "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol.1, p.51). Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44). Bruce McConkie (LDS apostle) states: "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 547, 1979).Carfred Broderick (Mormon author) writes: "God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone...latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was not the father of Jesus...The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, p.100-101). - Mormons see Jesus as a polygamist. Apostle Orson Hyde: "…Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee... Mary, Martha, and others were his wives ... he begat children" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210). Jedediah M. Grant: "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do... Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82). Orson Hyde: "It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it" (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259). Orson Pratt: "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born... We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives are to be married" (The Seer, p. 172). - The Bible says that Jesus created ALL things. This includes lucifer. Gen. 3:1, Ez. 28:13,15,17 -Mormons see Jesus as a brother of satan, not His Creator - Mormons see Jesus was procreated as a spirit child of the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and later conceived physically by the Heavenly Father and an earthly mother: The Ensign, Jan. 1989, pp.28-29; Come Unto Christ by Ezra Taft Benson, p.4). Bruce McConkie states: "Christ the Word, the Firstborn, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence" (What Mormons Think of Christ, p.36). Bruce McConkie continues: "He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg. 129). Orson Pratt: "God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born" (The Seer, p. 172). "Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol.4, Appendix 4).
  8. KiwiChristian

    MORMON HERESIES ABOUT MANKIND

    MORMON HERESIES ABOUT MANKIND 1. “Man has the potential of becoming God, just as Christ did; man is king of kings and Lord of Lords in embryo.” (Times and Seasons, August 1, 1844; Journal of Discourses, Vol 10, p 223; History of the Church, Vol 6, p 306; Doctrine and Covenants, 132.20). Bible: a) God alone is and will be God: ‘before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.’ (Isaiah 43:10). ‘I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.’ (Isaiah 46:9) b) Satan’s first lie to mankind was that ‘ye shall be as gods.’ (Genesis 3:5). It worked against Eve, so Satan uses it through Mormonism today. 2. “Adam’s fall in the Garden of Eden was a fall ‘upward’ that was not sinful, but rather necessary for the propagation of the human race.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, p 145; Vol 10, p 312; Pearl of Great Price, Moses 5:10-12; Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1, p 114-115). Bible: a) Adam’s sin in Eden caused spiritual and physical death for all persons (Genesis 3:16-19). ‘by one man sin entered into the world, & death by sin;& so death passed upon all men’(Rom 5:12) b) Propagation of the human race was certain without needing the fall: ‘God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply…’ (Genesis 1:28). 3. “Each person’s essence, his intelligence, has always existed and so was never created. Man is as eternal as God Himself.” (Journal of Discourses, X, p 5; VI, p 6; Doctrine and Covenants, 93.29; The Plan of Salvation (booklet) p 3). Bible: All men are a creation of God and had no existence before conception. God asked Job, ‘Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?’ (Job 38:4). ‘All my members were written, . . . when as yet there was none of them.’ (Psalm 139:16). 4. “Each person’s spiritual body that clothed his intelligence in the pre-existent state was formed by the sexual union of the Father and one of His spirit wives.” (The Seer, Orson Pratt, p 37). Bible: Man did not pre-exist, and the Father had no wives.
  9. KiwiChristian

    The Kinderhook Plates. A Mormon Fraud

    In 1843 six brass plates were found in a mound in Kinderhook, Illinois. Mormons who saw the plates were impressed by their ancient appearance and felt that they would prove Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon. In a letter written from Nauvoo, Illinois, dated May 2, 1843, Charlotte Haven said that when Joshua Moore "showed them to Joseph [Smith] the letter said that the figures or writing on them was similar to that in which the Book of Mormon was written, and if Mr. Moore could leave them, he thought that by the help of revelation he would be able to translate them." (Overland Monthly, Dec. 1890, page 630) While the Kinderhook plates have often been put forth as evidence for Joseph Smith's claims concerning the Book of Mormon, there is another side to the story. Evidence now shows that the Kinderhook plates were actually modern forgeries created specifically for the purpose of entrapping Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith accepted these plates as authentic and even claimed that he had translated a portion of them. The evidence comes from the diary of William Clayton, Joseph Smith's private secretary. The information in Clayton's journal was deemed so important that it was put in the first person and used as a basis for the story of the Kinderhook plates which is printed in the History of the Church vol. 5, p. 372. The following is attributed to Joseph Smith: After the plates were found, nine "citizens of Kinderhook" certified that R. Wiley took the "six brass-plates" from "a large mound, in this vicinity." Unfortunately for the Mormon position, it was later revealed that the plates were forgeries. On April 25, 1856, W. P. Harris, who was one of the nine witnesses to the discovery of the plates, wrote a letter in which he stated that the plates were not genuine: "...I was present with a number at or near Kinderhook and helped to dig at the time the plates were found... I... made an honest affidavit to the same.... since that time, Bridge Whitten said to me that he cut and prepared the plates and he... and R. Wiley engraved them themselves.... Wilbourn Fugit appeared to be the chief, with R. Wiley and B. Whitten." (The Book of Mormon?, by James D. Bales, pp. 95-96) On June 30, 1879, W. Fugate, who was also one of the nine people who signed the certificate, wrote a letter in which he admitted his part in the hoax: "I received your letter in regard to those plates, and will say in answer that they are a humbug, gotten up by Robert Wiley, Bridge Whitten and myself.... We read in Pratt's prophecy that 'Truth is yet to spring out of the earth.' We concluded to prove the prophecy by way of a joke." (Letter of W. Fugate, as cited in The Kinderhook Plates by Welby W. Ricks, reprinted from the Improvement Era, Sept. 1962) At the time of the Civil War the Kinderhook plates were lost. M. Wilford Poulson, of Brigham Young University, later found one of the original plates in the Chicago Historical Society Museum. The plate which he found has been identified as no. 5 in the facsimiles printed in the History of the Church. While Professor Poulson's research led him to believe that the plate was a forgery, Welby W. Ricks, who was President of the BYU Archaeological Society, hailed the discovery as a vindication of Joseph Smith's work: In 1965, three years after Mr. Ricks made this triumphant announcement, George M. Lawrence, a Mormon physicist was given permission to examine and make "some non-destructive physical studies of the surviving plate." In his "Report of a Physical Study of the Kinderhook Plate Number 5," George Lawrence wrote: The dimensions, tolerances, composition and workmanship are consistent with the facilities of an 1843 blacksmith shop and with the fraud stories of the original participants." Since Mr. Lawrence was only allowed to make non-destructive tests, some Mormon scholars would not accept his work as conclusive. In 1980, however, the Mormon scholar Stanley P. Kimball was able "to secure permission from the Chicago Historical Society for the recommended destructive tests." Professor Kimball described the results of the tests in the official Mormon Church publication, The Ensign, August 1981, pp. 66-70: "A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate... brought in 1843 to the prophet Joseph Smith... appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church history, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was - a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates.... As a result of these tests, we concluded that the plate... is not of ancient origin.... we concluded that the plate was made from a true brass alloy (copper and zinc) typical of the mid-nineteenth century; whereas the 'brass' of ancient times was actually bronze, an alloy of copper and tin." If Joseph Smith had not been murdered in June 1844, it is very possible he might have published a complete "translation" of these bogus plates. Just a month before his death it was reported that he was "busy in translating them. The new work... will be nothing more nor less than a sequel to The Book of Mormon;..." (Warsaw SignalMay 22, 1844) The fact that Joseph Smith was actually preparing to print a translation of the plates is verified by a broadside published by the Mormon newspaper, The Nauvoo Neighbor, in June 1843. On this broadside, containing facsimiles of the plates, we find the following: "The contents of the Plates, together with a Fac-Simile of the same, will be published in the 'Times and Seasons,' as soon as the translation is completed." In any case, it is obvious that Joseph Smith's work on these fraudulent plates casts serious doubt upon his credibility as a translator of Mormon scriptures like the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. Smith's work on the Kinderhook plates was supposed to have revealed that they "contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth." Now, in order to derive this much information from the plates it would have been necessary to have "translated" quite a number of the words. A man who could invent such information from bogus plates is just the type of man who would pretend to translate the Book of Abraham from Egyptian papyri which he really knew nothing about or the Book of Mormon from golden plates which he never made available to scholars. Charles A. Shook once observed: "Only a bogus prophet translates bogus plates." While this may not be the most tactful way of putting it, this is a very serious problem which cannot be brushed aside. Furthermore, Jesus himself has told us to "Beware of false prophets" (Matthew 7:15).
  10. KiwiChristian

    Mormonism and Christianity

    Mormonism and Christianity The Doctrine of God: Historic Christianity: The one God is a Spirit who is the personal, eternal, infinite Creator of all that exists. He is the only God and necessary for all other things to exist. He exists eternally as a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (see Deut. 6:4; Isa. 43:10; 44:6-8; Matt. 28:19; John 4:24; 17:3) Mormonism: God (Heavenly Father) is an exalted man with a physical body of flesh and bone. LDS founder Joseph Smith said, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible-I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). The trinity is denied with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost seen as three separate entities. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" (Doctrine and Covenants [D&C] 130:22). The Doctrine of Jesus Christ: Historic Christianity: Jesus Christ was the virgin born God incarnate who existed in all time with the Father and Holy Spirit in the eternal Trinity. As a man He possessed two natures -human and divine. He lived a sinless life and willingly died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of all humanity. (see John 1:1-18; 8:56-59; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 1:13-22; Heb.1:3; 13:8) Mormonism: Jesus was the spiritual "first born" Son of God in the preexistence. "Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ, so he is literally our elder brother" (Gospel Principles [GP], p. 11)."And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn" (D&C 93:21). He is also the "only begotten" physical offspring of God by procreation on earth. "Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father. That is why he is called the Only Begotten Son" (GP, p. 64). His atonement (death and resurrection) provides immortality for all people regardless of their faith. "Christ thus overcame physical death. Because of his atonement, everyone born on this earth will be resurrected . . . This condition is called immortality. All people who ever lived will be resurrected, 'both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous' (The Book of Mormon [BOM], Alma 11:44)" (GP, p. 74). (See GP, pp. 11, 17-19, 61-77.) The Doctrine of Scriptures and Authority: Historic Christianity: The Bible (Old and New Testaments) is the unique, revealed, and inspired Word of God. It is the sole authority for faith and practice for Christians. (see 2 Tim. 3:15-17; 2 Pet. 1:19-21) Mormonism: Recognizes the LDS Four Standard Works as authoritative. These include the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly" (Articles of Faith 1:8). It also includes The Book of Mormon (BOM) which Joseph Smith declared is "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 194). The church also regards The Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) as Scripture. It "is a collection of modern revelations . . . regarding The Church of Jesus Christ as it has been restored in these last days" (GP, p. 54). The Pearl of the Great Price (PGP) is the fourth book believed to be inspired. "It clarifies doctrines and teachings that were lost from the Bible and gives added information concerning the creation of the earth" (GP, p. 54). The church's president is regarded as "a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet" (D&C 107:91-92). The Doctrine of Humanity: Historic Christianity: Human beings are created in God's image, meaning they have personal qualities similar to God's. Every person is a unique, precious being of dignity and worth. (see Gen. 1:26-27) Mormonism: People are the preexisted spiritual offspring of the Heavenly Father and Mother. "All men and women are . . . literally the sons and daughters of Deity . . . Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal (physical) body" (Joseph F. Smith, "The Origin of Man," Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, pp. 78,80, as quoted in GP, p. 11).They are born basically good and are "gods in embryo." A commonly quoted Mormon aphorism (attributed to fifth LDS president Lorenzo Snow) says "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." The Doctrine of Sin: Historic Christianity: Human beings have chosen to sin against God, rejecting His nature and pursing life opposed to His essential character and revealed law. (see Rom. 3:23; 7:14-25; 1 John 1:8-10) Mormonism: People sin by disobedience to God's laws. Adam's fall, a part of Heavenly Father's plan, caused a loss of immortality, which was necessary for mankind to advance, (see GP, pp. 31-34). As Eve declared according to LDS scripture, "Were it not for our transgression we never should have . . . known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient"(PGP, Moses 5:11; see also BOM, 2 Nephi 2:22-25). Each person is responsible for his or her own sin. The Doctrine of Salvation: Historic Christianity: Salvation is release from the guilt and power of sin through God's gift of grace. It is provided through Christ's atonement and received by personal faith in Christ as Savior and Lord. (see Rom. 3:20; 10:9- 10; Eph. 2:8-10) Mormonism: Jesus' atonement provided immortality for all people. Exaltation (godhood) is available only to Mormons through obedience to LDS teachings: faith, baptism, endowments, celestial marriage, and tithing. "Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God-Wherefore, all things are theirs" (D&C, 76:58-59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people: 1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C, 76). 2. They will become gods. 3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family. 4. They will receive a fullness of joy. 5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have - all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (See GP, p. 302). Baptism for the dead provides post-mortem salvation for non-Mormons, and is "by immersion performed by a living person for one who is dead. This ordinance is performed in temples" (GP, p. 375). (See also GP, chapters 18-23.) The Doctrine of Life after Death: Historic Christianity: Eternal life in heaven with God for those who have trusted in Jesus Christ. Eternal separation from God's presence in hell for the unsaved. (see Matt. 5:12-30; 25:41; Rev. 20-22) Mormonism: One of three levels of glory: 1. Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom for faithful Mormons where people may become gods or angels; "Then shall they be gods" (D&C 132:20). 2. Terrestrial Kingdom for righteous non-Mormons; "These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fullness" (D&C 76:75-76). 3. Telestial Kingdom for wicked and ungodly (not hell); "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers . . . who suffer the wrath of God on earth"(D&C 76:103-104). (See also D&C 76:57-119; 131:1-4.) The Doctrine of the Church: Historic Christianity: Christians congregate together in local bodies and along denominational lines sharing distinctive doctrinal and ecclesiastical concepts. There is no organization or denomination that can claim exclusive designation as the "one true church. The universal church consists of all the redeemed in Jesus Christ in all of the ages. (see Matt. 16:15-19; 1 Cor. 1:12-14; Eph. 2:19; 3:11-12) Mormonism: Asserts that the LDS is the one true church on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith claimed Jesus Christ told him to join none of the existing denominations because "they were all wrong . . . that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (PGP: Joseph Smith-History 1:19-20). Mormons claim only the LDS possesses the divine authority of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood as restored by God to Joseph Smith in 1829. (D&C 13; 27:8- 13; 107:1-20; PGP: Joseph Smith-History 1:68-73)
  11. KiwiChristian

    The Nature Of God

    I compiled this for the local mormon missionaries when we were discussing who God is. The Nature Of God. "Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test," (Brigham Young, May 18, 1873, Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 46). LDS Stance: There are many Gods ( deities ) and you can become one. References: "It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6). “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.”. joseph smith "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light." (Book of Abraham 4:3) Joseph Smith: " I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years." Joseph Smith: "The head God organized the heavens and the earth. I defy all the world to refute me. In the beginning the heads of the Gods organized the heavens and the earth." He is our Father-the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being. How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. Brigham Young - Mormon prophet. Journal of Discourses 7:333 "Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47). Biblical/Christian stance: There is only one God, period. References: Notice the phrase "for this earth" or "for this world" is never used. DEUTERONOMY 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39 " Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.", "Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else." Note that since Jesus is a God ( in lds treaching ) and is in heaven, that means there are TWO Gods in heaven ) 2 SAMUEL 7:22 "Wherefore thou art great, O Lord God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears." 1 KINGS 8:60, "That all the people of the earth may know that the Lord is God, and that there is none else." 2 KINGS 19:15 "And Hezekiah prayed before the Lord, and said, O Lord God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth." NEHEMIAH 9:6 " Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." Note that in Colossians 1:16-20, we read that JESUS created all things. This is one passage that proves the "trinity" doctrine. ISAIAH 37:16,20 "O Lord of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.", "Now therefore, O Lord our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the Lord, even thou only." ISAIAH 43:10 " Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" ISAIAH 44:6,8 " Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.", " Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Note: "beside" does not necessarily mean in a physical sense. "beside me" could be "except for me". Also note that if God is all-knowing and knows everything, IF there were other Gods, wether for this planet or not, HE would know and here He states He does NOT know of any other God. LDS Stance: God has not always been God, but was once just a man on another planet who had to earn His way to BECOME a God. References: “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346. ) But if God the Father was not always God, but came to his present exalted position by degrees of progress as indicated in the teachings of the prophet, how has there been a God from all eternity? The answer is that there has been and there now exists an endless line of , stretching back into the eternities. B. H. Roberts - Mormon Seventy and LDS church historian. New Witness for God 1:476 "It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6). "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,..." "It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290). Biblical/Christian Stance: God the father has always been God the father. References: Psalm 90:2 "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Isaiah 57:15 " For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones." Malachi 3:6 " For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.". note the name "I AM".
  12. Admins: could we have a separate forum for non-Trinitarian sects, so that we could discuss their particular false doctrines. If any Jehovah's Witness, Mormon or Oneness Apostolic were to join these forums, then we could evangelize them and help them to see the truth of the Trinity and Christ's full humanity and deity. I've made cult evangelism as specialization for many years, my having come out of the Oneness (Apostolic - Jesus Only) movement in 1989. A separate chat room for such cults might attract a few brave souls to come and visit us, please don't argue about people being corrupted or their faith compromised, as there are more than enough people who can give a good Trinitarian witness to these cults, I myself although not a DD or an expert, nonetheless do have 28 years experience in evangelizing cults.
  13. <<< This topic was split from the thread: The purpose of this thread is to discuss Mormon doctrine (LDS). God bless, GoldenEagle >>> 1 I believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 I believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. 3 I believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 I believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 I believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 I believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7 I believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8 I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; I also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 I believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 I believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 I believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 I believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul— I believe all things, I hope all things, I have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things. I think that sums up my beliefs
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