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1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The above speaks to the instantaneous resurrection and glorification of our bodies. It does not talk of instantaneously meeting the Lord in the clouds. From a pretribulation view, let me propose my thoughts on the harpazo, the church's Rapture. How it may be explained away and accepted, with the advantage of living at the end of the age, and what is now transpiring. Granted, this is speculation based on current events and Biblical descriptions of deception. There have been many speculations from books such as the Left Behind series, where people are suddenly missing with a pile of clothes left behind. Those left behind are frantically running around their house and corn fields, searching for their family and loved ones who were just there. Is there any Biblical precedence for that type of scenario? No. On the contrary, Elisha and others witnessed Elijah's ascension. The apostles and others witnessed the ascension of Jesus. Their enemies and the world will see the Two Witnesses' ascension. By Biblical precedence, it stands to reason the harpazo will be in like manner. So, what am I getting at? Could it be when we are seen going up in a like manner that they come down with an acceptable answer to what happened? Who is the "they?" Not long ago, this thought would be a conspiracy theory, but not any longer, and it makes logical sense with "do not be deceived," Jesus mentions so often in Matthew chapter twenty-four in the plural. What is going on and why now, with government(s) disclosure of the existence of UFOs (now UAPs)? Numerous government investigations, congressional hearings, whistleblower testimonies, and things denied, denied, and hidden for decades. Now, they suddenly pose a national security and aviation threat. Does anyone smell a dead fish, reeking of something more coming, the setup? Congressional testimony is now revealing the government has physical and biological evidence of these crafts and occupants. Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: In the context of this verse, could this be a lie? The preceding also matches the new evolutionary theory gaining traction of panspermia. Are these thoughts still out in left field? Can I take off my Reynold's Wrap hat yet? 😊

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; A falling away from what and who? It is THE sign Paul gives that the seven-year Tribulation is fast approaching, and the revealing of the Antichrist is near. If you hold a pretribulation view, how much closer is the return of our Lord for His bride? Never in my lifetime did I think I would be witnessing what is happening today, escalating rapidly. To share my thoughts, I want to define the meaning of "a falling away" that is a key to the end times and Tribulation, apostasɩ́a. The noun apostasɩ́a appears as an apocalyptic reference to a rebellion at the end of the age (2 Thess. 2:3). Two specific theological uses of the verb that are problematic are a warning to avoid having an evil heart that "turns away from the living God" (Heb. 3:12). A cursory look at today's conditions of our Laodicean churches is telling. Prosperity gospels, false gospels, tickling of ears, watered down Gospels, losing their first love Jesus, ecumenicalism all religions worship the same god, called by different names in various cultures and religions. [i] The laundry list for rebellion and abandonment is too numerous to list them all. The world generally has lost all moral principles and historical biblical values. Humanism, critical race theory, wokeism, gender identity and pronouns, abortion, cancel culture, and on and on. The natural extension of the preceding is animal self-identification, and guess what is now happening? [ii] When I suspect things cannot possibly get viler and more ridiculous, along comes something else even more ludicrous. We are now witnessing a warmup, the prelude to how evil this abandonment will get as time passes. I believe we are in the time Paul speaks about, just before the Rapture. Pope Francis [ii] Kids “Identifying” as Animals? - AMAC - The Association of Mature American Citizens

I've been perplexed with the exact meaning of several Bible verses and parables; and how they fit together and what does it mean to me personally, and collectively as a church and the Christian body? Namely, the parable of the Ten Virgins of Matthew 25: and the following verses. I believe my understanding has changed. I'm not claiming this view is the correct one, but I think it's worth a civil discussion to compare our views. Luke 21:36 (KJV) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Escape all these things, what things? I don't believe Jesus is talking about the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., I believe this is yet future. I believe this talks about the 'tribulation' and escaping it in the Harpazo. Matthew 24:38 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Whom do you suppose Jesus is talking to in the above verses? Is it the heathen, Jew's or believers and the church? As in the days of Noah, everything will be normal, there's prosperity and few worries, life goes on. The flood took them all by surprise and they were not expecting it even though Noah was preaching it for a hundred years. I now believe Jesus is talking to and warning the born again and the church to not be caught off guard, walk in His ways of righteousness and not living a carnal life when He unexpectedly comes for His church, the body of Christ. There doesn't seem to be any divisions between those taken; such as sheep and goats, the lost or the saved. It doesn't appear to me this is a Salvation issue. It appears to me, that those whom are ready and watching and patiently waiting, not living carnal lives but walking in righteousness and following the Lord are the ones Raptured. That these cited that were left behind, had previously accepted the Lord as their personal Savior, but reverted back to a carnal life; will have to enter the "Tribulation", even though their souls are saved. They will most likely have to become martyrs for the faith?

Depending on the scholar and source, there's roughly 2,500 signs and prophecies in the Bible; about 2,000 that have been fulfilled, and about 500 that remain to be fulfilled. The roughly 500 left to be fulfilled deal with the time we are living, the tribulation and Rapture, the second coming of Christ and the millennium. The last 'major' prophecy to be fulfilled was: Isaiah 66:8 (KJV) Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. On May 14, 1948 in one day this prophecy was fulfilled by declaration of the United Nations (the world). Given all the prophecies in the Bible pertaining to those yet unfulfilled prior to the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming (Matt. 24:, Eze 38:-39: and so many more). Which (if any) do you not see shaping up, lining up and falling into place at the present? We now live in the age where everyone is running to and fro, and knowledge has been increased, Daniel's book has been unsealed. We now see how knowledge and technology play a part in the end-times our forefathers couldn't even imagine, IE. the whole world watching live the Two Witnesses" in Israel; one man controlling all buying and selling, mass destruction via NBC weapons, etc. etc. So my question: Does anyone not see how any of the remaining prophecies can now come about, or is not currently shaping up? The players and nations involved; their posturing, their mutual defense pacts, their shared goals and objectives, etc. The charted and recorded increase in frequency and intensity of global natural and man-made disasters; major medias use of terms like unprecedented, historic, never before, never seen, etc. Through missionaries and technology, even the following verse maybe very close. Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Personally, I can not see any active evidence 'yet' of only one prophecy listed in Revelation; and that is the literal rebuilding of the city of Babylon. Yeah I know, many believe it to be symbolic of a system or figurative or whatever; but I believe it to be a literal rebuilding of the city as Saddam attempted to do prior to his demise. Does anyone not see 'all' these remaining prophetic scriptures coming together all at once? Thoughts - opinions?

Howdy Folks, I'd like to know your thoughts about Jesus' very first recorded miracle at the start of His ministry; of turning water into wine. And of where he was physically at, for what reason and purpose, and what He was doing. I have my own thoughts, and I believe the "law of first mention" has a lot of significance and import with this first public miracle of His ministry; and the sequence of prophetic events yet to come to pass. You may already know where I'm heading with this?

The debate continues, and I suppose it will until/if the church finds itself recognizing that the antichrist/man of sin/beast/son of perdition/abomination that cuases desolation/etc. has been revealed and recognized. So, here is what I am asking, this is the question that this thread is about: Where in the bible is it stated, or which combination of verses do you believe imply (evidentially, not wishfully) that there is either: a secret coming of Jesus for the church before the great tribulation an invisible coming of Jesus for the church a two part second advent a scriptural distinction of Jesus coming for His church, versus His coming with His church From my perspective, in case it is not obvious, the only thing invisible about Jesus coming, is that it is that the pre-trib rapture is invisible in the sense that it is no where to be found in scripture. Some of you disagree, what I am asking then, is for the biblical basis, the scriptural evidence, for one or more of the bulleted points (•) above. Some of you are so sure that Jesus will return before the great tribulation, that certainly you must have biblical evident of the truth or likelyhood, of the pre-trib return of Christ. To those who want to reply in this thread: Please stick to the premise of it, scriptural evidence for a coming of Jesus to catch up His church to be with Him prior to the great tribulation. I know that I am asking a lot of people to stay on topic. I understand that people are passionate about their eschatological beliefs. However, please exercise some self control and not start in with a statement of or defense of your own, other than pre-trib persuasion. Let's let this thread be limited to actual scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture. Opposing viewpoints are o.k., but limit those to just enough to present an answer to any posts claiming to present scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture, without making it about what you believe instead. To those taking up the challenge presented here, please note that I have gone to great lengths to be specific in limiting the type of posts appropriate to this thread. For example: Stating that "the rapture is Jesus coming for His church before the trib" is a definition of your belief, and is not scriptural evidence, such a statement is just an opinion, and is evidence that you believe, not for your belief. Stating things like "the church is not mentioned after verse such and such in Revelation", is also not evidence, it is merely an argument from silence. Stating that "the church is not destined to suffer God's wrath" is also not evidence, unless you can prove that the whole to the great tribulation is in fact the wrath of God, and that if the church is present for that, that she cannot and will not be protected from God's wrath during the great tribulation Hopefully, examples like those above, will convey the idea of what I am seeking, and that you can understand the nature of evidence as opposed to statements of faith in your doctrine. The idea here, is to present some quality reasons to believe in the pre-trib rapture. So here you have an opportunity. Please, give it a shot if you think that you have scriptural evidence. Thanks in advance